CD-ROM and DVD-ROM disappeared in device manager with Vista Home P

For a while I could restart the computer and they would show up. I installed
Vista Home Premium in January. Now they won't show up at all in Computer or
Device Manager. The only thing that shows up under Removable Storage Devices
is the Floppy Disk Drive.

Please help me find a solution. My next option is to reformat with the
original XP Home restore disc that came originally with my computer. I don't
want to throw away the $159 I spent on this OS though.

Try Method 1:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320553/en-us


"awhatley" <awhatley@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2B807C1E-916C-45EF-9467-4EA6B27838EE@microsoft.com...
> For a while I could restart the computer and they would show up. I
> installed
> Vista Home Premium in January. Now they won't show up at all in Computer
> or
> Device Manager. The only thing that shows up under Removable Storage
> Devices
> is the Floppy Disk Drive.
>
> Please help me find a solution. My next option is to reformat with the
> original XP Home restore disc that came originally with my computer. I
> don't
> want to throw away the $159 I spent on this OS though.

Already tried that and still doesn't work.

Thanks for trying though.

"dean-dean" wrote:

> Try Method 1:
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320553/en-us
>
>
> "awhatley" <awhatley@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:2B807C1E-916C-45EF-9467-4EA6B27838EE@microsoft.com...
> > For a while I could restart the computer and they would show up. I
> > installed
> > Vista Home Premium in January. Now they won't show up at all in Computer
> > or
> > Device Manager. The only thing that shows up under Removable Storage
> > Devices
> > is the Floppy Disk Drive.
> >
> > Please help me find a solution. My next option is to reformat with the
> > original XP Home restore disc that came originally with my computer. I
> > don't
> > want to throw away the $159 I spent on this OS though.
>
>

I have a similar issue. My sound card will go away as soon as I reboot
or go to standby. I have to insert or remove a card in one of the PCI
slots and turn the computer back on for it to get detected again. If I
reboot or go to standby it goes away again. Then I have to add/remove
another card for it to get detected again.

Seems to me that making hardware changes forces Vista to refresh the
device list and it gets detected.

I wonder if using something like MagicDisc (free) to just create a
virtual drive (yes, it shows up in Device Manager) would give Vista the
jolt it needs. If that works, then at least there'd be a software work
around.

Also (if it works) it'd be nice to find a command line app similar to
magicdisc where you can script a drive to go away and come back. Then
you could set the script to run every time you come out of standby or on
bootup.

I'm not near my media center to test this, but it's a thought anyway.
If you get a chance to look at this, post back your results! :-)

Jason


--
alias007
Posted via http://www.vistaheads.com

On Fri, 9 May 2008 19:03:29 +0100, alias007
<alias007.395og4@no-mx.forums.vistaheads.com> wrote:

>
>I have a similar issue. My sound card will go away as soon as I reboot
>or go to standby. I have to insert or remove a card in one of the PCI
>slots and turn the computer back on for it to get detected again. If I
>reboot or go to standby it goes away again. Then I have to add/remove
>another card for it to get detected again.

This is NOT a "common" problem. Most others do not have this problem.
Perhaps you might install the latest drivers for that particular card.
If that doesn't work, then REPLACE the card with one which IS
Vista-compatible.

>
>Seems to me that making hardware changes forces Vista to refresh the
>device list and it gets detected.

That is correct, AFIK. Additionally, making hw changes also forces
Vista to revisit your Activation record.

>I wonder if using something like MagicDisc (free) to just create a
>virtual drive (yes, it shows up in Device Manager) would give Vista the
>jolt it needs. If that works, then at least there'd be a software work
>around.

What does a "virtual drive" have to do with a faulty audio card?
Additionally WHY use "software workarounds" in the first place? Why
not just use a Vista-compatible sound card, along with a
Vista-compatible driver for the card? Heck, man! There are a
plethora of Vista-compatible sound cards, and they are usually
very-reasonably priced, comparatively.

>Also (if it works) it'd be nice to find a command line app similar to
>magicdisc where you can script a drive to go away and come back. Then
>you could set the script to run every time you come out of standby or on
>bootup.


Why use a "software fix" to fix a hardware problem?
That's much like using Duct Tape to stop a high-pressure steam-leak.
It will usually work for awhile, but eventually, the steam will
overcome the strength of the glue on the tape, and you will wind up
having a WORSE problem on your hands.

>I'm not near my media center to test this, but it's a thought anyway.
>If you get a chance to look at this, post back your results! :-)
>
>Jason


Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the correct thread and article.
================================================

There are much nicer ways to reply to a person's posts. Please don't be
rude.

I didn't mean to imply that this was a common problem. However, many
people are having issues with their sound card. Microsoft totally
revamped the audio layer of their software and so that's why
manufacturers are struggling to get revision after revision of drivers
out for their audio cards. So far, the latest drivers for mine don't
seem to work. However, the same card works in XP. My card is labeled
"Vista compatible" (not capable) so I'm hopeful that in time a new
revision of their driver will be what I'm waiting on.

As for activation records, I've already activated windows. So I'm not
getting any nuisance screens.

>What does a "virtual drive" have to do with a faulty audio card?

It's not faulty. It works in another machine. I only mention adding
and then removing a virtual drive to force Vista to go back through the
hardware list and possibly find the audio card.

>Why use "software workarounds" in the first place?

Because I'm waiting until either the drivers catch up to Vista or
Microsoft releases a patch that gets these audio cards working. That
being said, I still catch myself doing a google search for audio cards
that are Vista compatible *and* have good reviews. If I find one, I'll
buy it.

> There are a plethora of Vista-compatible sound cards...

I have no trouble spending $100 on a card if it'll work. But I'm not
seeing enough reviews out there or at least the cards that do have
reviews say that they're not compatible with Vista as advertised. This
is not the 'compatible vs capable' issue, by the way. That being said,
please prove me wrong. Point a card out to me that totally proves me
wrong and I WILL buy it.

I'd like an example on the duct tape analogy. This is just a refresh
of devices. As long as it works once, it should work again. I don't
see how this could not be the case, but I'm open-minded. I may have 15
years experience but I'd be a fool to think I've seen it all.

Granted, the workaround I suggested isn't the optimal solution. The
optimal solution would be for Microsoft to keep devices from being
dropped after standby/reboot. But I'm basing my suggestion on the hope
that Microsoft will issue a windows update that will fix this or if it
is in fact the fault of the driver, that the manufacturer will offer a
revision that works. All I wanted was to offer the original poster a
backup plan. So that no matter what, there's at least 1 possibility.
Untested in all it's theoretical (and smelly) glory.

To get back to the main topic. The original poster had a drive that
was showing up in device manager in Vista but eventually was perpetually
dropped. I'm having the same issue with a totally different device that
is handled through a different section of code in the OS. This leads me
to believe that it's not a driver issue and since my card works in XP
and his device worked before he upgraded to Vista and both worked at
least once in Vista that the issue isn't the device, but Vista.
Assuming that this could possibly happen with any device, some of which
would be to expensive to just replace (Bluray rewriteable - just off the
top of my head), I decided to offer my workaround as a suggestion. It
might not even work! But at least I tried.

And if it does work, it's at least something to hold you over until the
core issue is resolved.

No more anologies please. They hurt my head. :-)


--
alias007
Posted via http://www.vistaheads.com

On Mon, 12 May 2008 03:32:34 +0100, alias007
<alias007.39a00b@no-mx.forums.vistaheads.com> wrote:

>
>There are much nicer ways to reply to a person's posts. Please don't be
>rude.

I really don't understand why you think my reply was "rude". It was
right to the point, and corrected your misconceptions. IF I felt like
being "rude", I would have used much stronger language. Don't believe
me? Read some of my other thousands of replies in varios Newsgroups
and Forums. You haven't seen "rude" yet.

Anyway, I do apologize for what you thought was "rudeness". Of
course, I have no control over your thoughts and feelings, do I?

IF you want to keep using the Usenet, you are going to have to grow a
thicker skin, friend. I'm usually a nice person, and do have the
user's best interests at heart. Many others don't.

>I didn't mean to imply that this was a common problem. However, many
>people are having issues with their sound card. Microsoft totally
>revamped the audio layer of their software and so that's why
>manufacturers are struggling to get revision after revision of drivers
>out for their audio cards.

The fact is, these OEMs have had over a YEAR and a half to produce
drivers for their cards which work well in Vista. They either don't
want to spend the money it takes to develop for Vista, or they are not
technically capable of doing so. Talk to them, not Microsoft.

>So far, the latest drivers for mine don't
>seem to work. However, the same card works in XP. My card is labeled
>"Vista compatible" (not capable) so I'm hopeful that in time a new
>revision of their driver will be what I'm waiting on.

IN the mean time, please do not blame Microsoft for the manufacturer's
obvious lack of care for their customers.

Just spend the $49 for a decent card for Vista, and you won't have any
more problems (at tleast in this area).

>
>As for activation records, I've already activated windows. So I'm not
>getting any nuisance screens.
>
>>What does a "virtual drive" have to do with a faulty audio card?
>
>It's not faulty. It works in another machine. I only mention adding
>and then removing a virtual drive to force Vista to go back through the
>hardware list and possibly find the audio card.
>
>>Why use "software workarounds" in the first place?
>
>Because I'm waiting until either the drivers catch up to Vista or
>Microsoft releases a patch that gets these audio cards working.

Sorry, friend, but if you are waiting for Microsoft, you are going to
have to wait a long, long time, since Microsoft simply doesn't do
that, it being the OEM's responsibility, not Microsoft's.

>That
>being said, I still catch myself doing a google search for audio cards
>that are Vista compatible *and* have good reviews. If I find one, I'll
>buy it.
>
>> There are a plethora of Vista-compatible sound cards...
>
>I have no trouble spending $100 on a card if it'll work. But I'm not
>seeing enough reviews out there or at least the cards that do have
>reviews say that they're not compatible with Vista as advertised. This
>is not the 'compatible vs capable' issue, by the way. That being said,
>please prove me wrong. Point a card out to me that totally proves me
>wrong and I WILL buy it.

Well, the sound circuity on my motherboard works perfectly. Not a
problem seen yet.

>
>I'd like an example on the duct tape analogy. This is just a refresh
>of devices. As long as it works once, it should work again. I don't
>see how this could not be the case, but I'm open-minded. I may have 15
>years experience but I'd be a fool to think I've seen it all.
>
>Granted, the workaround I suggested isn't the optimal solution. The
>optimal solution would be for Microsoft to keep devices from being
>dropped after standby/reboot.

This is just not possible IF the driver (NOT WRITTEN by MICROSOFT, by
the way) is faulty. Again, it is NOT Microsoft's responsibility to
make sure EVERY DRIVER in the world works as it should: It is the
OEM's.

>But I'm basing my suggestion on the hope
>that Microsoft will issue a windows update that will fix this or if it
>is in fact the fault of the driver,

Microsoft NEVER supplies such "updates" for OEM devices, unless they
work with Microsoft to issue a newer driver.

>that the manufacturer will offer a
>revision that works. All I wanted was to offer the original poster a
>backup plan. So that no matter what, there's at least 1 possibility.
>Untested in all it's theoretical (and smelly) glory.

Actually, these "workarounds" have been tried before, with better or
worse results. The BEST "workaround" is to make sure your ENTIRE
computer is capable of using your Microsoft OS correctly BEFORE buying
it.

BTW, you can hardly ever go wrong by buying motherboards, etc from
Intel. I've never had problems with Intel motherboards and the
devices attached to them.

Via, yes. Intel, never.


>
>To get back to the main topic. The original poster had a drive that
>was showing up in device manager in Vista but eventually was perpetually
>dropped. I'm having the same issue with a totally different device that
>is handled through a different section of code in the OS. This leads me
>to believe that it's not a driver issue and since my card works in XP
>and his device worked before he upgraded to Vista and both worked at
>least once in Vista that the issue isn't the device, but Vista.

Keep on assuming that it is Microsoft's fault. See where that gets
anyone.

The fact is, Microsoft CHANGED the Driver frameworks for printers,
video, and audio devices. That the OEM's failed to change their OWN
drivers is THEIR fault, not Microsoft's. As I said, they've had over
a year and a half to fix their devices and drivers. They have NO ONE
to blame but themselves. By the way, releasing a driver "fix" for a
device which is not really capable of being used productively in Vista
is idiotic, and "cheap", and only shows their obvious non-concern for
their customers.

>Assuming that this could possibly happen with any device, some of which
>would be to expensive to just replace (Bluray rewriteable - just off the
>top of my head), I decided to offer my workaround as a suggestion. It
>might not even work! But at least I tried.
>
>And if it does work, it's at least something to hold you over until the
>core issue is resolved.

I just can't believe this: We spend thousands of dollars to buy our
machines, then blame Microsoft when one of the $50 devices the
manufacturers put in them is useless in Vista.

>No more anologies please. They hurt my head. :-)

I can see why, friend.
I will try to stay away from "anologies" (Sic) with you from now on.


Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the correct thread and article.
================================================

Donald L McDaniel;826094 Wrote:
> On Mon, 12 May 2008 03:32:34 +0100, alias007
> <alias007.39a00b@no-mx.forums.vistaheads.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >There are much nicer ways to reply to a person's posts. Please don't
> be
> >rude.
>
> I really don't understand why you think my reply was "rude". It was
> right to the point, and corrected your misconceptions. IF I felt like
> being "rude", I would have used much stronger language. Don't believe
> me? Read some of my other thousands of replies in varios Newsgroups
> and Forums. You haven't seen "rude" yet.
>
> Anyway, I do apologize for what you thought was "rudeness". Of
> course, I have no control over your thoughts and feelings, do I?
>
> IF you want to keep using the Usenet, you are going to have to grow a
> thicker skin, friend. I'm usually a nice person, and do have the
> user's best interests at heart. Many others don't.
>
> >I didn't mean to imply that this was a common problem. However, many
> >people are having issues with their sound card. Microsoft totally
> >revamped the audio layer of their software and so that's why
> >manufacturers are struggling to get revision after revision of drivers
> >out for their audio cards.
>
> The fact is, these OEMs have had over a YEAR and a half to produce
> drivers for their cards which work well in Vista. They either don't
> want to spend the money it takes to develop for Vista, or they are not
> technically capable of doing so. Talk to them, not Microsoft.
>
> >So far, the latest drivers for mine don't
> >seem to work. However, the same card works in XP. My card is labeled
> >"Vista compatible" (not capable) so I'm hopeful that in time a new
> >revision of their driver will be what I'm waiting on.
>
> IN the mean time, please do not blame Microsoft for the manufacturer's
> obvious lack of care for their customers.
>
> Just spend the $49 for a decent card for Vista, and you won't have any
> more problems (at tleast in this area).
>
> >
> >As for activation records, I've already activated windows. So I'm not
> >getting any nuisance screens.
> >
> >>What does a "virtual drive" have to do with a faulty audio card?
> >
> >It's not faulty. It works in another machine. I only mention adding
> >and then removing a virtual drive to force Vista to go back through
> the
> >hardware list and possibly find the audio card.
> >
> >>Why use "software workarounds" in the first place?
> >
> >Because I'm waiting until either the drivers catch up to Vista or
> >Microsoft releases a patch that gets these audio cards working.
>
> Sorry, friend, but if you are waiting for Microsoft, you are going to
> have to wait a long, long time, since Microsoft simply doesn't do
> that, it being the OEM's responsibility, not Microsoft's.
>
> >That
> >being said, I still catch myself doing a google search for audio cards
> >that are Vista compatible *and* have good reviews. If I find one, I'll
> >buy it.
> >
> >> There are a plethora of Vista-compatible sound cards...
> >
> >I have no trouble spending $100 on a card if it'll work. But I'm not
> >seeing enough reviews out there or at least the cards that do have
> >reviews say that they're not compatible with Vista as advertised.
> This
> >is not the 'compatible vs capable' issue, by the way. That being
> said,
> >please prove me wrong. Point a card out to me that totally proves me
> >wrong and I WILL buy it.
>
> Well, the sound circuity on my motherboard works perfectly. Not a
> problem seen yet.
>
> >
> >I'd like an example on the duct tape analogy. This is just a refresh
> >of devices. As long as it works once, it should work again. I don't
> >see how this could not be the case, but I'm open-minded. I may have
> 15
> >years experience but I'd be a fool to think I've seen it all.
> >
> >Granted, the workaround I suggested isn't the optimal solution. The
> >optimal solution would be for Microsoft to keep devices from being
> >dropped after standby/reboot.
>
> This is just not possible IF the driver (NOT WRITTEN by MICROSOFT, by
> the way) is faulty. Again, it is NOT Microsoft's responsibility to
> make sure EVERY DRIVER in the world works as it should: It is the
> OEM's.
>
> >But I'm basing my suggestion on the hope
> >that Microsoft will issue a windows update that will fix this or if it
> >is in fact the fault of the driver,
>
> Microsoft NEVER supplies such "updates" for OEM devices, unless they
> work with Microsoft to issue a newer driver.
>
> >that the manufacturer will offer a
> >revision that works. All I wanted was to offer the original poster a
> >backup plan. So that no matter what, there's at least 1 possibility.
> >Untested in all it's theoretical (and smelly) glory.
>
> Actually, these "workarounds" have been tried before, with better or
> worse results. The BEST "workaround" is to make sure your ENTIRE
> computer is capable of using your Microsoft OS correctly BEFORE buying
> it.
>
> BTW, you can hardly ever go wrong by buying motherboards, etc from
> Intel. I've never had problems with Intel motherboards and the
> devices attached to them.
>
> Via, yes. Intel, never.
>
>
> >
> >To get back to the main topic. The original poster had a drive that
> >was showing up in device manager in Vista but eventually was
> perpetually
> >dropped. I'm having the same issue with a totally different device
> that
> >is handled through a different section of code in the OS. This leads
> me
> >to believe that it's not a driver issue and since my card works in XP
> >and his device worked before he upgraded to Vista and both worked at
> >least once in Vista that the issue isn't the device, but Vista.
>
> Keep on assuming that it is Microsoft's fault. See where that gets
> anyone.
>
> The fact is, Microsoft CHANGED the Driver frameworks for printers,
> video, and audio devices. That the OEM's failed to change their OWN
> drivers is THEIR fault, not Microsoft's. As I said, they've had over
> a year and a half to fix their devices and drivers. They have NO ONE
> to blame but themselves. By the way, releasing a driver "fix" for a
> device which is not really capable of being used productively in Vista
> is idiotic, and "cheap", and only shows their obvious non-concern for
> their customers.
>
> >Assuming that this could possibly happen with any device, some of
> which
> >would be to expensive to just replace (Bluray rewriteable - just off
> the
> >top of my head), I decided to offer my workaround as a suggestion. It
> >might not even work! But at least I tried.
> >
> >And if it does work, it's at least something to hold you over until
> the
> >core issue is resolved.
>
> I just can't believe this: We spend thousands of dollars to buy our
> machines, then blame Microsoft when one of the $50 devices the
> manufacturers put in them is useless in Vista.
>
> >No more anologies please. They hurt my head. :-)
>
> I can see why, friend.
> I will try to stay away from "anologies" (Sic) with you from now on.
>
>
> Donald L McDaniel
> Please reply to the correct thread and article.
> ================================================
No, you're rude. But I respect your opinion so keep offering it. Even
though it's not in a manor I prefer. And yes, I do have a thick skin.
But let's stick to the subject.

I'm not blaming Microsoft. I clearly said before that it could be
their fault, or the OEM's. I don't care who. But what I said was NOT
that the Microsoft needs new drivers. I said that IF it's Microsoft's
fault then it's with the way it handles the list of devices on the
system. I can get the sound card to work. But if I reboot Vista
forgets it's there. This doesn't happen on my XP box.

I did make sure that all devices were Vista compatible.

Glad to hear the positive feedback on the Intel motherboards. I'll put
that on the bottom of the list of things to investigate for now.

Analogies only hurt my head when they come from you, by the way. You
make the analogy but fail to offer a technical explanation. I'm still
waiting on the technical explanation for your duct tape analogy.

I don't usually post in a rude manor, but I'll play your silly mind
games. It's kind of fun in a Fight Club sort of way! That being said,
take the gloves off and keep being rude. I'm enjoying this! lol


--
alias007
Posted via http://www.vistaheads.com

I reread your original reply and didn't find you to be quite so rude as
I did the first time I read it. In fact, had I read your post better I
would not have made the 'rude' comment at all. But since I said it,
I'll explain why I found your comments rude. And then I'll apologize.

> If that doesn't work, then REPLACE the card with one which IS
Vista-compatible.

A) Of course I've already thought of that. Who wouldn't?
B) I suppose I misinterpretted your use of ALL CAPS.
C) I apologize.

>What does a "virtual drive" have to do with a faulty audio card?

A) In this case, I think you should have read my post more carefully.
The virtual drive workaround was so that awhatley could get his device
working in Vista, which had been working before the Vista upgrade.
B) Sentences in the 'What does ____ have to do with ____" format is
generally intended to be rude. I suppose I misinterpretted you here as
well.
C) I apologize.

>Why use a "software fix" to fix a hardware problem?
>That's much like using Duct Tape to stop a high-pressure steam-leak.
>It will usually work for awhile, but eventually, the steam will
>overcome the strength of the glue on the tape, and you will wind up
>having a WORSE problem on your hands.

A) I misread this. I had Vista compatibility in my head since you had
mentioned that a couple of times and so by the time I got to this
analogy I had actually read the question as "Why use a software fix to
fix a compatibility issue".
B) You made perfect sense in your analogy.
C) I apologize.


--
alias007
Posted via http://www.vistaheads.com

On Tue, 13 May 2008 19:45:52 +0100, alias007
<alias007.39d4gh@no-mx.forums.vistaheads.com> wrote:

>
>I reread your original reply and didn't find you to be quite so rude as
>I did the first time I read it. In fact, had I read your post better I
>would not have made the 'rude' comment at all. But since I said it,
>I'll explain why I found your comments rude. And then I'll apologize.
>
>> If that doesn't work, then REPLACE the card with one which IS
>Vista-compatible.
>
>A) Of course I've already thought of that. Who wouldn't?
>B) I suppose I misinterpretted your use of ALL CAPS.
>C) I apologize.
>
>>What does a "virtual drive" have to do with a faulty audio card?
>
>A) In this case, I think you should have read my post more carefully.
>The virtual drive workaround was so that awhatley could get his device
>working in Vista, which had been working before the Vista upgrade.
>B) Sentences in the 'What does ____ have to do with ____" format is
>generally intended to be rude. I suppose I misinterpretted you here as
>well.

Maybe, maybe not. I did think that the suggested "fix" was
irrational, so it's possible that my inward feeling came out in my
wording.

>C) I apologize.

I did understand what you were saying. I just thought that it was a
poor way for "fixing" the issue.

To me, "fix" means just that: It "FIXES" the problem, not "...covers
it over until the next time it needs to be 'fixed'..." (i.e., "a
permanent solution" = "a fix".)

Only the OEM can create this "permanent solution", since only they own
the rights to their driver code. And sometimes, there is just no
fixing it. Especially if the device and its driver were never
intended for the OS the user is attempting to install them on in the
first place.

Obviouly, the BEST "fix" for a faulty (or, in this case, incompatible)
device is to REMOVE the sucker and replace it with one which is not
faulty or incompatible. Only the user can apply this "fix".


>>Why use a "software fix" to fix a hardware problem?
>>That's much like using Duct Tape to stop a high-pressure steam-leak.
>>It will usually work for awhile, but eventually, the steam will
>>overcome the strength of the glue on the tape, and you will wind up
>>having a WORSE problem on your hands.
>
>A) I misread this. I had Vista compatibility in my head since you had
>mentioned that a couple of times and so by the time I got to this
>analogy I had actually read the question as "Why use a software fix to
>fix a compatibility issue".

If you got that impression, I used a poor choice of words in my
argument.

The fact is, Microsoft is NOT responsible for making sure each and
every piece of hardware is "compatible" with its current OS. The OEMs
are.

There is no "compatibility problem" with Vista. There is an "OEM
device/driver problem." The OEMS had well over a year to get driver
fixes in. IF their devices are STILL "incompatible" with Vista, it is
THEIR fault, not Microsoft's. IF they would STOP advertising their
devices as "Vista compatible", when they KNOW they aren't, fewer would
purchase them for Vista use.

Too bad the US destroyed all its "truth-in-advertising" laws in the
last 10 or 20 years.

>B) You made perfect sense in your analogy.
>C) I apologize.

I must apologize also, my friend, since I do use "all-caps" to
emphasize my thoughts much too often.

I've never been moved by the "conventions" of the Usenet. Since they
are not "rules", why follow them if you don't like them for one reason
or another?

"All caps=Yelling" is actually a ridiculous convention, since many who
post to the Usenet are "nubies", and don't know about ANY conventions.
When someone *****es at them because they used all-caps, they start to
think that the "convention" is actually a "Rule", so they start
repeating the hateful and hurtful behavior of all the others, and the
sickness just continues and gets worse. I am attempting to stop that
hateful (and completely unnecessary) behavior.

This "convention" (and others like it) would not be "necessary" if
HTML were the norm for the Usenet. Why? because one could then use
standard English grammar and punctuation methods, such as underlining,
bolding, and italics. While this is possible IF one has a client
which allows such punctuation, it is generally not possible, since for
some reason, the Usenet HATES HTML, and the developers have adopted
this attitude toward HTML also.

While it was reasonable 20 years ago to not use HTML, when everyone
was using dial-up connections, it is completely un-reasonable today,
with most machines having high-speed connections. Maybe the USENET
should upgrade its servers to allow our modern machines and
connections.

Additionally, sometimes, it is "truly necessary" to be "rude" (as you
call it). One can't always tell someone what he wants to hear,
especially if he is dead-wrong.

Politeness is good. "Deception" is not.

There are always many ways to accomplish the same thing. Insisting
that everyone do it "YOUR" way (not referring to "you", alias2007,
BTW) only leads to more ignorance and hatred.

We need more "choices", not "more hatefullness".


Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the correct thread and article.
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