Rod Speed wrote in news:6ghisjFforpdU1@mid.individual.net
> ohford <ohford@braveneworld.net> wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> > > ohford <ohford@braveneworld.net> wrote
> > > > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> > > > > ohford <ohford@braveneworld.net> wrote
>
> > > > > > created 2 -60 GB partitions, one primary, one logical on a 250 GB IDE drive.
>
> > > > > > Using usb adapter, plugged drive into usb port on XP library system.
>
> > > > > > XP system assigns two drive letters, one for the primary and other
> > > > > > for the logical. HOWEVER it says the primary letter drive has not
> > > > > > been formatted. I just formatted it last night and checked it on a
> > > > > > w98se system, but XP system cannot see it. Logical driver letter
> > > > > > appears fine with it's directory structure, but primary only shows
> > > > > > drive letter that XP thinks is not formatted.
>
> > > > > > What is the problem here?
>
> > > > > Likely the usb adapter.
>
> > > > Thanks, but more likely a problem with XP.
>
> > > > Device is compatible with both XP and SE, but with SE it needs it's driver.
>
> > > > Also could be, I'm thinking, problem with difference in dos versions.
>
> > > There is no dos version with XP.
>
> > the command.com
>
> Thats not dos.
>
> > that comes with xp is a later version than the one on the se box, but your correct, seeing the drive is probably
> > occurring indepedent of any dos under XP.
>
> There is no dos under XP.
>
> > > > Went back to SE box and both partitions reading fine, yet XP
> > > > continues to say one is a raw, unformatted partition. Must be that
> > > > XP is reading drive differently, probably due to it's 250GB size,
>
> > > Its SE that has a problem with drives over 128GB.
>
> > Not sure this is relevant to the problem in OP, as I am only using the first 120GB of the drive (one primary 60gb an
> > one extended/logical 60GB).
>
> Not relevant.
>
> > XP may be having a problem because the drive is larger, at 250GB,
>
> Thats not the problem.
>
> > but it should not, since I am only asking it to look at two partitions in the first 120GB,
>
> Not relevant.
>
> > both of which are fully functional under se.
>
> Yep, thats the important bit.
>
> > My guess is that the XP/MS driver for the usb
> > port cannot deal with extended/logical partitions.
>
> Guess again.
>
> > The usb/ide adapter device is new and has many favorable reviews for use with both xp and w98se, so I am doubtful it
> > is the adapter causing the failure to read.
>
> It may well be what killed the primary copy of the MBR.
>
> > > What version of XP are you using ?
>
> > I'll have to check, it's a public machine, so probably all the updates are on it.
>
> > XP is asking me to format the partition it cannot see,
>
> Thats normal when it decides its RAW.
>
> > to which of course I am replying NO WAY JOSE.
>
> > Soon as I usb connect the drive to the se box, all the partitions are fully visible and functional again, including
> > dir structures.
> Likely because SE can see the copy of the MBR and XP doesnt bother to use it.
There is no copy of the MBR, Roddie boy.
The problem is the pmimary copy of the partition bootsector.
>
> > > > even though the partitions are only 60 gb each and only two of them total.
>
> > > Its the drive physical size that matters, not the partition sizes.
>
> > > > > > Or did some systems glitch\ hacker on nuke my primary partition?
>
> > > > > Likely the usb adapter did.
> But its only nukes the primary copy of the MBR not the partition itself.
Utterly clueless, as always.
>
> That should have been obvious from the fact that SE sees it fine.
Ok, I see what you and Rod are trying to say now. Maybe something, the
device or whatever did nuke something in the MBR. You think sys driveletter:
will fix this?
Getting too involved to start playing with debug; I 'm no drive sexpert, so
I will just nuke and reformat the whole drive and try again, since the data
is stored elsewhere and I can replace it. Thanks.
"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:3sl7a4p3g4pp092c8es38c6trsonf4jl66@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:37:35 -0700, "Q" <Q@Q.mm> put finger to
> keyboard and composed:
>
>>
>>"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>>news2u3a4dimu2prd09iai355niiosfh042q5@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:14:46 -0700, "ohford" <ohford@braveneworld.net>
>>> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:6g4io2Fe581bU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> ohford <ohford@braveneworld.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> created 2 -60 GB partitions, one primary, one logical on a 250 GB IDE
>>>>>> drive.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Using usb adapter, plugged drive into usb port on XP library system.
>>>>>
>>>>>> XP system assigns two drive letters, one for the primary and other
>>>>>> for the logical. HOWEVER it says the primary letter drive has not
>>>>>> been formatted. I just formatted it last night and checked it on a
>>>>>> w98se system, but XP system cannot see it. Logical driver letter
>>>>>> appears fine with it's directory structure, but primary only shows
>>>>>> drive letter that XP thinks is not formatted.
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the problem here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Likely the usb adapter.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks, but more likely a problem with XP.
>>>>Device is compatible with both XP and SE, but with SE it needs it's
>>>>driver.
>>>>Also could be, I'm thinking, problem with difference in dos versions.
>>>>
>>>>Went back to SE box and both partitions reading fine, yet XP continues
>>>>to
>>>>say one is a raw, unformatted partition. Must be that XP is reading
>>>>drive
>>>>differently, probably due to it's 250GB size, even though the partitions
>>>>are
>>>>only 60 gb each and only two of them total.
>>>
>>> Did you by any chance run FIXBOOT from an XP "Recovery" Console? If
>>> so, then you have trashed the boot sector on that particular
>>> partition. Win98SE is smart enough to see the backup boot sector (at
>>> logical sector 6), but Win XP is not.
>>
>>Thanks, but,
>>No, I never do anything ANY version of windows tells me to do, cuz it's
>>usually bull**** to get you even into deeper trouble, ha!
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Try typing "sys x:" from a Win98 DOS prompt. Replace "x:" with the
>>> drive letter of that partition.
>>
>>Why should I do that? W98SE is seeing both partitions just fine.
>
> This was my horror story:
> http://groups.google.com/group/micro...146325a111ac22
>
> Win98SE saw the XP FAT32 disc just fine but Win XP did not.
>
>>It's XP
>>that cannot see one of the partitions, as I recall it was the primary that
>>XP falsely reports is raw unformatted. I can't run fdisk from this XP
>>system
>>as it is a public system and won't allow direct drive access.
>
> I would hook the drive up to your Win98SE box and use DOS Debug from a
> Windows DOS box to dump the boot sector of the "raw" partition.
>
> The following commands will dump the boot sector of logical drive n:.
>
> debug
> -L 100 n 0 1
> -D 100 2FF
> -Q
>
> Replace the "n" with 0,1,2,3,... where 0=drive A:, 1=drive B:, 2=drive
> C:, etc. The drive numbers are in hexadecimal, not decimal.
>
> If you don't see a FAT32 signature, then something is wrong.
>
> You can dump the backup boot sector (#6) as follows:
>
> debug
> -L 100 n 6 1
> -D 100 2FF
> -Q
>
> You might also like to try running Scandisk. It may be that one copy
> of the FAT is corrupt, in which case Win98SE would transparently use
> the good copy. It might be a good idea to disable automatic repair,
> though.
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:23:22 -0700, "Q" <Q@Q.mm> put finger to
keyboard and composed:
>(aka ohford says):
>
>Ok, I see what you and Rod are trying to say now. Maybe something, the
>device or whatever did nuke something in the MBR. You think sys driveletter:
>will fix this?
>Getting too involved to start playing with debug; I 'm no drive sexpert, so
>I will just nuke and reformat the whole drive and try again, since the data
>is stored elsewhere and I can replace it. Thanks.
The MBR (partition table) and boot sector are two completely different
things. You don't appear to have a problem with your MBR, otherwise
Win98 wouldn't see that "raw" partition either.
My "debug" technique is really simple. Just go to Start -> Run and
type "command". Then do the Debug thing. If you have trouble with the
drive letter, then just post back. If you are going to rebuild your
drive anyway, then you have nothing to lose.
If Debug still scares you, then experiment with a floppy diskette. Use
n=0 for drive A:.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
Q wrote in news:g84vks$o1l$1@news.mixmin.net
> (aka ohford says):
> Ok, I see what you and Rod are trying to say now.
Oh really. You sure?
> Maybe something, the device or whatever did nuke something in the MBR.
> You think sys driveletter: will fix this?
Of course not. He was just playing with you.
> Getting too involved to start playing with debug;
> I 'm no drive sexpert,
You don't say.
> so I will just nuke and reformat the whole drive and try again, since the
> data is stored elsewhere and I can replace it. Thanks.
>
> "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message news:3sl7a4p3g4pp092c8es38c6trsonf4jl66@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:37:35 -0700, "Q" Q@Q.mm> put finger to keyboard and composed:
> > > "Franc Zabkar" fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message news2u3a4dimu2prd09iai355niiosfh042q5@4ax.com...
> > > > On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:14:46 -0700, "ohford" ohford@braveneworld.net put finger to keyboard and composed:
> > > > > "Rod Speed" rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message news:6g4io2Fe581bU1@mid.individual.net...
> > > > > > ohford <ohford@braveneworld.net> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > created 2 -60 GB partitions, one primary, one logical on a 250 GB IDE
> > > > > > > drive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Using usb adapter, plugged drive into usb port on XP library system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > XP system assigns two drive letters, one for the primary and other
> > > > > > > for the logical. HOWEVER it says the primary letter drive has not
> > > > > > > been formatted. I just formatted it last night and checked it on a
> > > > > > > w98se system, but XP system cannot see it. Logical driver letter
> > > > > > > appears fine with it's directory structure, but primary only shows
> > > > > > > drive letter that XP thinks is not formatted.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > What is the problem here?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Likely the usb adapter.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks, but more likely a problem with XP.
> > > > > Device is compatible with both XP and SE, but with SE it needs it's
> > > > > driver.
> > > > > Also could be, I'm thinking, problem with difference in dos versions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Went back to SE box and both partitions reading fine, yet XP continues
> > > > > to say one is a raw, unformatted partition. Must be that XP is reading drive
> > > > > differently, probably due to it's 250GB size, even though the partitions
> > > > > are only 60 gb each and only two of them total.
> > > >
> > > > Did you by any chance run FIXBOOT from an XP "Recovery" Console?
> > > > If so, then you have trashed the boot sector on that particular
> > > > partition. Win98SE is smart enough to see the backup boot sector (at
> > > > logical sector 6), but Win XP is not.
> > >
> > > Thanks, but, No, I never do anything ANY version of windows tells me
> > > to do, cuz it's usually bull**** to get you even into deeper trouble, ha!
Yeah, obviously the advice in newsgroups where everyone
and his dog is an expert is so much better.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Try typing "sys x:" from a Win98 DOS prompt.
> > > > Replace "x:" with the drive letter of that partition.
> > >
> > > Why should I do that? W98SE is seeing both partitions just fine.
> >
> > This was my horror story:
> > http://groups.google.com/group/micro...146325a111ac22
> >
> > Win98SE saw the XP FAT32 disc just fine but Win XP did not.
> >
> > > It's XP
> > > that cannot see one of the partitions, as I recall it was the primary that
> > > XP falsely reports is raw unformatted. I can't run fdisk from this XP
> > > system as it is a public system and won't allow direct drive access.
> >
> > I would hook the drive up to your Win98SE box and use DOS Debug from a
> > Windows DOS box to dump the boot sector of the "raw" partition.
> >
> > The following commands will dump the boot sector of logical drive n:.
> >
> > debug
> > -L 100 n 0 1
> > -D 100 2FF
> > -Q
> >
> > Replace the "n" with 0,1,2,3,... where 0=drive A:, 1=drive B:, 2=drive
> > C:, etc. The drive numbers are in hexadecimal, not decimal.
> >
> > If you don't see a FAT32 signature, then something is wrong.
> >
> > You can dump the backup boot sector (#6) as follows:
> >
> > debug
> > -L 100 n 6 1
> > -D 100 2FF
> > -Q
> >
> > You might also like to try running Scandisk. It may be that one copy
> > of the FAT is corrupt, in which case Win98SE would transparently use
> > the good copy. It might be a good idea to disable automatic repair, though.
> >
> > - Franc Zabkar
> > --
> > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
Franc Zabkar wrote in news:cf5ca4djie7udjd0ked7quk38id2qqek6e@4ax.com
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:23:22 -0700, "Q" <Q@Q.mm> put finger to
> keyboard and composed:
>
> > (aka ohford says):
> >
> > Ok, I see what you and Rod are trying to say now. Maybe something, the
> > device or whatever did nuke something in the MBR.
> You think sys driveletter: will fix this?
Well, Franc?
> > Getting too involved to start playing with debug; I 'm no drive sexpert, so
> > I will just nuke and reformat the whole drive and try again, since the data
> > is stored elsewhere and I can replace it. Thanks.
>
> The MBR (partition table) and boot sector are two completely different
> things. You don't appear to have a problem with your MBR, otherwise
> Win98 wouldn't see that "raw" partition either.
>
> My "debug" technique is really simple. Just go to Start -> Run and
> type "command".
Even simpler than that SYS <driveletter>: , Franc?
> Then do the Debug thing. If you have trouble with the
> drive letter, then just post back. If you are going to rebuild your
> drive anyway, then you have nothing to lose.
> If Debug still scares you, then experiment with a floppy diskette.
Ooh, so kinky.
You shouldn't arouse him so much, Franc. He is not a drive sexpert, you know.
Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in
news:cf5ca4djie7udjd0ked7quk38id2qqek6e@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:23:22 -0700, "Q" <Q@Q.mm> put finger to
> keyboard and composed:
>
>>(aka ohford says):
>>
>>Ok, I see what you and Rod are trying to say now. Maybe something, the
>>device or whatever did nuke something in the MBR. You think sys
>>driveletter: will fix this?
>>Getting too involved to start playing with debug; I 'm no drive
>>sexpert, so I will just nuke and reformat the whole drive and try
>>again, since the data is stored elsewhere and I can replace it.
>>Thanks.
>
> The MBR (partition table) and boot sector are two completely different
> things. You don't appear to have a problem with your MBR, otherwise
> Win98 wouldn't see that "raw" partition either.
>
> My "debug" technique is really simple. Just go to Start -> Run and
> type "command". Then do the Debug thing. If you have trouble with the
> drive letter, then just post back. If you are going to rebuild your
> drive anyway, then you have nothing to lose.
>
> If Debug still scares you, then experiment with a floppy diskette. Use
> n=0 for drive A:.
Ok, tried the sys: c: driverletter: That doesn't help.
Actually not being able to see that other partition is not such a bad
thing as it means the sysops on the public system under XP can't look in
there either :-).
Will try the debug when I get some time, thanks for your help.
Hey squeezed brain, if you've got a old beater chevy with 300,000 miles
and a bad bearing, I suppose you (stupidly) tear down the chevy engine
to replace a bad bearing, right? Some people have better things to do
then screw with drive tables.
"Squeeze" <rubberduck@duckies.au> wrote in
news:48a7045e$0$13870$8f2e0ebb@news.shared-secrets.com:
> Q wrote in news:g84vks$o1l$1@news.mixmin.net
>> (aka ohford says):
>
>> Ok, I see what you and Rod are trying to say now.
>
> Oh really. You sure?
>
>> Maybe something, the device or whatever did nuke something in the
>> MBR.
>
>> You think sys driveletter: will fix this?
>
> Of course not. He was just playing with you.
>
>> Getting too involved to start playing with debug;
>
>> I 'm no drive sexpert,
>
> You don't say.
>
>> so I will just nuke and reformat the whole drive and try again, since
>> the data is stored elsewhere and I can replace it. Thanks.
>>
>> "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>> news:3sl7a4p3g4pp092c8es38c6trsonf4jl66@4ax.com...
>> > On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:37:35 -0700, "Q" Q@Q.mm> put finger to
>> > keyboard and composed:
>> > > "Franc Zabkar" fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>> > > news2u3a4dimu2prd09iai355niiosfh042q5@4ax.com...
>> > > > On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:14:46 -0700, "ohford"
>> > > > ohford@braveneworld.net put finger to keyboard and composed:
>> > > > > "Rod Speed" rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> > > > > news:6g4io2Fe581bU1@mid.individual.net...
>> > > > > > ohford <ohford@braveneworld.net> wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > created 2 -60 GB partitions, one primary, one logical on
>> > > > > > > a 250 GB IDE drive.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Using usb adapter, plugged drive into usb port on XP
>> > > > > > > library system.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > XP system assigns two drive letters, one for the primary
>> > > > > > > and other for the logical. HOWEVER it says the primary
>> > > > > > > letter drive has not been formatted. I just formatted it
>> > > > > > > last night and checked it on a w98se system, but XP
>> > > > > > > system cannot see it. Logical driver letter
>> > > > > > > appears fine with it's directory structure, but primary
>> > > > > > > only shows drive letter that XP thinks is not formatted.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > What is the problem here?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Likely the usb adapter.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks, but more likely a problem with XP.
>> > > > > Device is compatible with both XP and SE, but with SE it
>> > > > > needs it's driver.
>> > > > > Also could be, I'm thinking, problem with difference in dos
>> > > > > versions.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Went back to SE box and both partitions reading fine, yet XP
>> > > > > continues to say one is a raw, unformatted partition. Must be
>> > > > > that XP is reading drive differently, probably due to it's
>> > > > > 250GB size, even though the partitions are only 60 gb each
>> > > > > and only two of them total.
>> > > >
>> > > > Did you by any chance run FIXBOOT from an XP "Recovery"
>> > > > Console? If so, then you have trashed the boot sector on that
>> > > > particular partition. Win98SE is smart enough to see the backup
>> > > > boot sector (at logical sector 6), but Win XP is not.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks, but, No, I never do anything ANY version of windows tells
>> > > me to do, cuz it's usually bull**** to get you even into deeper
>> > > trouble, ha!
>
> Yeah, obviously the advice in newsgroups where everyone
> and his dog is an expert is so much better.
>
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Try typing "sys x:" from a Win98 DOS prompt.
>> > > > Replace "x:" with the drive letter of that partition.
>> > >
>> > > Why should I do that? W98SE is seeing both partitions just fine.
>> >
>> > This was my horror story:
>> >
> http://groups.google.com/group/micro...n_discussion/b
r
> owse_thread/thread/b5a85f1e2122af44/c9146325a111ac22?
lnk=st&q=#c9146325
> a111ac22
>> >
>> > Win98SE saw the XP FAT32 disc just fine but Win XP did not.
>> >
>> > > It's XP
>> > > that cannot see one of the partitions, as I recall it was the
>> > > primary that XP falsely reports is raw unformatted. I can't run
>> > > fdisk from this XP system as it is a public system and won't
>> > > allow direct drive access.
>> >
>> > I would hook the drive up to your Win98SE box and use DOS Debug
>> > from a Windows DOS box to dump the boot sector of the "raw"
>> > partition.
>> >
>> > The following commands will dump the boot sector of logical drive
>> > n:.
>> >
>> > debug
>> > -L 100 n 0 1
>> > -D 100 2FF
>> > -Q
>> >
>> > Replace the "n" with 0,1,2,3,... where 0=drive A:, 1=drive B:,
>> > 2=drive C:, etc. The drive numbers are in hexadecimal, not decimal.
>> >
>> > If you don't see a FAT32 signature, then something is wrong.
>> >
>> > You can dump the backup boot sector (#6) as follows:
>> >
>> > debug
>> > -L 100 n 6 1
>> > -D 100 2FF
>> > -Q
>> >
>> > You might also like to try running Scandisk. It may be that one
>> > copy of the FAT is corrupt, in which case Win98SE would
>> > transparently use the good copy. It might be a good idea to disable
>> > automatic repair, though.
>> >
>> > - Franc Zabkar
>> > --
>> > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
>
>
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 03:39:49 +0200 (CEST), Q <Q@Q.mm> put finger to
keyboard and composed:
>Ok, tried the sys: c: driverletter: That doesn't help.
>Actually not being able to see that other partition is not such a bad
>thing as it means the sysops on the public system under XP can't look in
>there either :-).
>
>Will try the debug when I get some time, thanks for your help.
It may be too late now. SYS has probably overwritten the boot sector.
Try running Scandisk. That should test the FATs.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
Franc Zabkar wrote in news:b71fa45f0bp257efls99mdahpjmfg2a6mv@4ax.com
> On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 03:39:49 +0200 (CEST), Q <Q@Q.mm> put finger to
> keyboard and composed:
>
> > Ok, tried the sys: c: driverletter: That doesn't help.
> > Actually not being able to see that other partition is not such a bad
> > thing as it means the sysops on the public system under XP can't look in
> > there either :-).
> >
> > Will try the debug when I get some time, thanks for your help.
> It may be too late now. SYS has probably overwritten the boot sector.
It gets weirder and weirder.
>
> Try running Scandisk. That should test the FATs.
And overwrite them indiscriminately whether good or bad.
You are just guessing now, aren't you, Franc.
You don't need to.
There has been a utility from Svend Olaf Mikkelsen for quite a long
time now that anlyzes such problems, named Findpart.
It can be found here: http://www.partitionsupport.com/utilities.htm
Re: Pub XP system won't recognize usb partition 
2u3a4dimu2prd09iai355niiosfh042q5@4ax.com. ..
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