Problem getting drive bootable

On Nov 2, 7:36*pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> DManzaluni wrote:
> > "something else used in the early boot phase which works
> > well enough when booting the old drive, but which stops it
> > copying to the new drive" * Copying OR re-creating!!
>
> Stops it being copied properly.
>
> > This is exceptionally troubling, as you seem to imply there is no cure:
>
> Thats overstating it. You should be able to do a clean Win2K
> install to the new drive, then use xxcopy, not xxclone, to copy
> the files from the old drive and that total should boot fine.
>
> > This problem with early boot phase was why I was trying to get the windows
> > 2000 install files onto a flash memory drive and make THAT bootable
>
> Yeah but that adds another complication, booting a flash drive with 2K.
>
> And there is no reason to believe that a flash drive would be any better than a new hard drive.
>
> > and try to correct things with that but I couldnt get that
> > solution to m did treat my drive as an HP one but still it
> > wouldnt boot off it. *I hope this isnt a hardware problem!
>
> Thats unlikely given that it does still boot the old drive.
>
> Assuming it still will boot the old drive, thats worth confirming.
>
> > Infuriating as I suspect that all problems with the drive can be
> > overcome except for these mysterious early boot phase files.
>
> Yes, but they should be fixable with a clean install of Win 2K on the new drive.
>
> That wouldnt even need to be done on the laptop, the system you are
> using to copy from the old drive to the new drive should be fine for that..
>
> Then use xxcopy to copy the non early boot files from
> the old drive to the new drive and that should boot.
>
> > Curiously enough I have often had the opposite problem
> > with dying drives: They all usually go through that early
> > boot phase and THEN wont let the system boot into the OS
>
> Yeah, because its the other stuff thats got corrupted by the drive dying.
>
> > Is there really nothing in UBCD4WIN which might fix those early boot phase files?
>
> If they cant be copied by the two things you have tried copying them
> with already, its unlikely that anything else off that will succeed.
>
> Guess you could try either a forensic cloner or Spinrite. They try
> a lot harder to copy files that cant be read error free the first time.
> Not sure that Spinrite can be used for copying tho, so try a forensic cloner.
>
> Try clonedisk fromhttp://invircible.com/resq.php
> Its not free tho, not that expensive either.

OK Things are becoming clearer, though I now have a new problem (to
which I have already referred) with this solution: No CD drive to
install from, which is what all that playing around with the USB drive
was all about. My conclusion that you cant install through the USB
port may be not incorrect.

Playing around in the BIOS I did discover an area letting a user do a
network install of an OS. This is probably how the OS was installed
originally. I am wondering how I can do this or if there is some way
of rebuilding those files over a network? I have to say that most of
the rest of my network is XP. Am I kidding myself by wondering
whether I can rebuild those early boot sector files with XP ones over
the network somehow or are they so different that I will have all the
correct files and a correct mbr but the wrong early boot phase files?

Does this add 371 additional layers of complication to the problem of
getting those early boot phase files installed properly? (Personally
I cant see how you could install an OS without being able to see a
network on the target drive).

i wonder why xxclose takes such trouble to let you know that it is
making the cloned drive bootable when it is doing no such thiing?

DManzaluni wrote:
> On Nov 2, 7:36 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> DManzaluni wrote:
>>> "something else used in the early boot phase which works
>>> well enough when booting the old drive, but which stops it
>>> copying to the new drive" Copying OR re-creating!!
>>
>> Stops it being copied properly.
>>
>>> This is exceptionally troubling, as you seem to imply there is no
>>> cure:
>>
>> Thats overstating it. You should be able to do a clean Win2K
>> install to the new drive, then use xxcopy, not xxclone, to copy
>> the files from the old drive and that total should boot fine.
>>
>>> This problem with early boot phase was why I was trying to get the
>>> windows 2000 install files onto a flash memory drive and make THAT
>>> bootable
>>
>> Yeah but that adds another complication, booting a flash drive with
>> 2K.
>>
>> And there is no reason to believe that a flash drive would be any
>> better than a new hard drive.
>>
>>> and try to correct things with that but I couldnt get that
>>> solution to m did treat my drive as an HP one but still it
>>> wouldnt boot off it. I hope this isnt a hardware problem!
>>
>> Thats unlikely given that it does still boot the old drive.
>>
>> Assuming it still will boot the old drive, thats worth confirming.
>>
>>> Infuriating as I suspect that all problems with the drive can be
>>> overcome except for these mysterious early boot phase files.
>>
>> Yes, but they should be fixable with a clean install of Win 2K on
>> the new drive.
>>
>> That wouldnt even need to be done on the laptop, the system you are
>> using to copy from the old drive to the new drive should be fine for
>> that.
>>
>> Then use xxcopy to copy the non early boot files from
>> the old drive to the new drive and that should boot.
>>
>>> Curiously enough I have often had the opposite problem
>>> with dying drives: They all usually go through that early
>>> boot phase and THEN wont let the system boot into the OS
>>
>> Yeah, because its the other stuff thats got corrupted by the drive
>> dying.
>>
>>> Is there really nothing in UBCD4WIN which might fix those early
>>> boot phase files?
>>
>> If they cant be copied by the two things you have tried copying them
>> with already, its unlikely that anything else off that will succeed.
>>
>> Guess you could try either a forensic cloner or Spinrite. They try
>> a lot harder to copy files that cant be read error free the first
>> time.
>> Not sure that Spinrite can be used for copying tho, so try a
>> forensic cloner.
>>
>> Try clonedisk fromhttp://invircible.com/resq.php
>> Its not free tho, not that expensive either.

> OK Things are becoming clearer, though I now have a new
> problem (to which I have already referred) with this solution:
> No CD drive to install from,

I did cover that, albeit a bit cryptically.

You should be able to do the clean install of Win2K
on the new drive in the non laptop you have been
doing the copy from the old drive to the new drive
on, with a CD drive in THAT system.

Then after thats been done and you have checked
that that new drive is bootable in the laptop, you
then xxcopy, not xxclone, the contents of the old
drive to the new drive in that non laptop again,
and that should give you a bootable new drive
in the laptop with what you want on it.

> which is what all that playing around with the USB
> drive was all about. My conclusion that you cant
> install through the USB port may be not incorrect.

That last is a double negative, not clear what you mean.

You should be able to do a clean install of Win2K onto
the new drive in the laptop, via the USB port, tho I
would personally do it the other way I spelt out above.

Note that that isnt installing Win2K on the USB stick,
but using it to get the Win2K files from the CD onto
the new drive and then installing Win2K on the new
drive with the Win2K install files on the new drive.

I'll spell this out in more detail if you want to go that route.

> Playing around in the BIOS I did discover an area
> letting a user do a network install of an OS.

You sure thats a network INSTALL, or just a network BOOT
of an OS ? The second one is much more common in BIOs.

> This is probably how the OS was installed originally.

Its much more likely to have just had the contents
of the hard drive copied onto it, with the drive out
of the laptop, before it was installed in the factory.

> I am wondering how I can do this

Yes, it is possible to do a network install of Win2K

> or if there is some way of rebuilding those files over a network?

Not rebuilding so much as restoring an image of the old drive over the network.

But you dont have the image to restore.

And now that the drive is dying, you probably cant create an image now.

> I have to say that most of the rest of my network is XP. Am I
> kidding myself by wondering whether I can rebuild those early
> boot sector files with XP ones over the network somehow

Yes, that is not feasible.

> or are they so different that I will have all the correct files
> and a correct mbr but the wrong early boot phase files?

Yes. Thats the reason for the clean install of Win2K to get the
early phase Win2K boot files on the new drive, since you dont
appear to be able to copy them from the old drive successfully.

> Does this add 371 additional layers of complication to the
> problem of getting those early boot phase files installed properly?

Yes.

> (Personally I cant see how you could install an OS
> without being able to see a network on the target drive).

Correct. And thats why its much more likely that the bios
entry is actually talking about BOOTING an OS from the
network, not INSTALLING an OS from the network.

However, it would certainly be possible to put something
on the new drive that would allow the drive to be booted
in the laptop and be able to see the network and THEN
install Win2K over the network. No real point tho over
doing the clean install of Win2K on the new drive with the
new drive in the non laptop you were doing the copys in.

> i wonder why xxclose takes such trouble to let you know that it is
> making the cloned drive bootable when it is doing no such thiing?

Most likely it doesnt realise that whatever early boot file
is preventing a successful boot is corrupt, it thinks its a
good file when its not been copied successfully.

Could also be a bug in xxclone that he hasnt noticed yet too.

Thanks again for that very complete response but I am back at square
one again!

At least I now know what to do: Get all the OS install files onto the
USB drive and make it bootable (You are right, the BIOS entry only
says start from USB, not install from USB) Try to start the install
process as you mention, either let it conclude or stop it at some
stage and then wipe the files on the drive and copy over the working
Transnote files one more time

There may be something wrong with the utility I am using to make the
flash memory drive bootable which prevents it from trying to install
the OS from the files copied from the CD?

DManzaluni wrote:

> Thanks again for that very complete response
> but I am back at square one again!

Why cant you do a clean install of Win2K on the non laptop you used
to copy the old drive to the new drive in, with a CD drive in that system ?

Or did I get that story wrong, and you only ever copied in the laptop ?

> At least I now know what to do: Get all the OS
> install files onto the USB drive and make it bootable

Thats much more difficult to do.

> (You are right, the BIOS entry only says start from USB, not install from USB)

> Try to start the install process as you mention, either let it conclude

Thats best.

> or stop it at some stage and then wipe the files on the drive
> and copy over the working Transnote files one more time

Yes, and use xxcopy to do that, not xxclone, because xxclone will fiddle with the boot files.

> There may be something wrong with the utility I am using to
> make the flash memory drive bootable which prevents it from
> trying to install the OS from the files copied from the CD?

The problem is that that its a non trivial exercise to boot 2K and XP from a flash memory drive.

Thats why you should concentrate on making the new drive
bootable, by doing a clean install of Win2K on that, and then
copying the non boot files on the old drive over that clean install.

On Nov 4, 4:05*pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> DManzaluni wrote:
> > Thanks again for that very complete response
> > but I am back at square one again!
>
> Why cant you do a clean install of Win2K on the non laptop you used
> to copy the old drive to the new drive in, with a CD drive in that system ?
>
> Or did I get that story wrong, and you only ever copied in the laptop ?
>
> > At least I now know what to do: Get all the OS
> > install files onto the USB drive and make it bootable
>
> Thats much more difficult to do.
>
> > (You are right, the BIOS entry only says start from USB, not install from USB)
> > Try to start the install process as you mention, either let it conclude
>
> Thats best.
>
> > or stop it at some stage and then wipe the files on the drive
> > and copy over the working Transnote files one more time
>
> Yes, and use xxcopy to do that, not xxclone, because xxclone will fiddle with the boot files.
>
> > There may be something wrong with the utility I am using to
> > make the flash memory drive bootable which prevents it from
> > trying to install the OS from the files copied from the CD?
> o
> The problem is that that its a non trivial exercise to boot 2K and XP from a flash memory drive.
>
> Thats why you should concentrate on making the new drive
> bootable, by doing a clean install of Win2K on that, and then
> copying the non boot files on the old drive over that clean install.

I will clearly have to try this but am not sure that I have a Windows
2000 install CD which isnt tied to some other manufacturer and wont
install unless it sees some wrong name in the BIOS computer
identification: I certainly dont have the Transnote install CD any
more or I wouldnt be asking these questions. I wonder if I can by-
pass all these questions by making a new linux flash install USB drive
from some new Linux download and then installing some Smart Boot
Manager on the drive. Does this avoid the question of the wrong early
boot files and substitute it's own early install files?

DManzaluni wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> DManzaluni wrote

>>> Thanks again for that very complete response
>>> but I am back at square one again!

>> Why cant you do a clean install of Win2K on the non laptop you used
>> to copy the old drive to the new drive in, with a CD drive in that system ?

>> Or did I get that story wrong, and you only ever copied in the laptop ?

>>> At least I now know what to do: Get all the OS
>>> install files onto the USB drive and make it bootable

>> Thats much more difficult to do.

>>> (You are right, the BIOS entry only says start from USB, not
>>> install from USB) Try to start the install process as you mention,
>>> either let it conclude

>> Thats best.

>>> or stop it at some stage and then wipe the files on the drive
>>> and copy over the working Transnote files one more time

>> Yes, and use xxcopy to do that, not xxclone, because xxclone will fiddle with the boot files.

>>> There may be something wrong with the utility I am using to
>>> make the flash memory drive bootable which prevents it from
>>> trying to install the OS from the files copied from the CD?
>> o
>> The problem is that that its a non trivial exercise to boot 2K and
>> XP from a flash memory drive.

>> Thats why you should concentrate on making the new drive
>> bootable, by doing a clean install of Win2K on that, and then
>> copying the non boot files on the old drive over that clean install.

> I will clearly have to try this but am not sure that I have a Windows
> 2000 install CD which isnt tied to some other manufacturer and wont
> install unless it sees some wrong name in the BIOS computer identification:

There arent very many of those around at all.

> I certainly dont have the Transnote install CD
> any more or I wouldnt be asking these questions.

I wouldnt hesitate to use a pirate copy if I had legally owned a legitimate copy and had lost it.

Another legal copy wouldnt cost much.

> I wonder if I can by-pass all these questions by making a new
> linux flash install USB drive from some new Linux download and
> then installing some Smart Boot Manager on the drive.

Nope, those just hand the boot to Win2K when they have
done what they need to do, so that still wont boot Win2K

> Does this avoid the question of the wrong early
> boot files and substitute it's own early install files?

Nope.