DManzaluni wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> DManzaluni wrote
>>> holarchy <holar...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>> Arno wrote
>>>>> DManzaluni <dmanzal...@googlemail.com> wrote
>>>>>> I have a dying drive on an IBM Transnote which has no CD drive
>>>>>> (and needless to say I have no restore discs). It still works
>>>>>> and Maxtor's quick check tells me that it is OK but it is on the
>>>>>> way out DEFINITELY.
>>>>> The quick check does not do a surface scan and can miss things.
>>>>>> Hitachi DFT reports excessive disk shock and doesnt seem
>>>>>> to care that the drive still boots into WIndows 2000 and works.
>>>>> DFT is a risk management tool. It does not care that the
>>>>> drive is not yet completely dead. It tells you that it will
>>>>> likely be dead soon. It also does not care about what
>>>>> data is on that disk and it is not its job to care.
>>>>>> So I am trying a trick I have used numerous times before,
>>>>>> Copy Commander to copy the whole drive to a new one,
>>>>>> including MBRs Bootsectors etc etc. This always works
>>>>>> This time it isnt workinng. Even though the drive works and the
>>>>>> computer boots, when I take the drive out and put it in another
>>>>>> computer and boot off the Partition Commander boot disc, it sees
>>>>>> the drive as empty space with a tiny red partition at the very
>>>>>> top
>>>>>> and a report of damaged partition. Needless to say nothing i can
>>>>>> do can revive it or repair it. There is a CC command TOGGLE
>>>>>> ACTIVE/BOOTABLE and if you leave a drive not active or bootable,
>>>>>> it warns you but when I exit, i dont get any message telling me
>>>>>> that no drive is active or bootable so Iassume the new drive is
>>>>>> seen as being bootable
>>>>>> Does anyone have any ideas as to what I can do please?
>>>>> Try a real disk imager and try to make a sector image of the
>>>>> drive. This will show unreadable areas as well. It is just
>>>>> possible that too mauch is damaged. Tools than can copy
>>>>> disks with read errors are rare, but for example Linux
>>>>> dd_rescue can.
>>>>>> I have tried copying all the files on it to a new drive but it,
>>>>>> obviously, simply isnt bootable. I have also tried copying the
>>>>>> whole of a Windows 2000 CD to a reformatted flash mem drive
>>>>>> and making that one bootable (so that i can run fixmbr or
>>>>>> fixboot)
>>>>> Sorry, you seem to be missing fundamental understanding here.
>>>>> That is not how a boot process works. It needs an assembler
>>>>> program in the first sector or the boot sector of the drive.
>>>> Nope, just some code.
>>>>> The BIOS then loads this assembler program
>>>> Nope, just some code.
>>>>> and it takes control. Simply copying files to a target filesystem
>>>>> is entirely unsuitable for making something bootable. but still
>>>>> the
>>>>>> computer (which CAN boot from a flash drive) reports no OS,
>>>>>> presumably on the flash drive.
>>>>> You should find out.
>>>>>> I dont think there is any utlity on UBCD4WIN which can make a
>>>>>> drive bootable, nor can I imagine there are any Linux distros
>>>>>> which would let me copy the whole drive like Copy Commander
>>>>>> does? I am running
>>>>>> out of ideas here!
>>>>> Linux full disk 1:1 copy:
>>>>> dd <source> <target>
>>>>> or
>>>>> cat <source> > <destination>
>>>>> or numerous other ways.
>>>>> With progress indicator and read errors on the source:
>>>>> dd_rescue <source> <target>
>>>>> On partition level (likely not what you need, target has to be
>>>>> made bootable manually) with graphical user interface:
>>>>> Use gparted, which also comes in a mini distro as bootable CD or
>>>>> memory-stick.
>>>>> Raw parted (commandline) boot floppies/CD images/USB stick
>>>>> images are also available on the web.
>>>>> Also, I hope you have backup of any files on the damaged drive
>>>>> that you want to keep. A drive damaged by mechanical shock
>>>>> can die any minute without warning. I also would advise you to
>>>>> make that sector image now, before the drive is completely dead.
>>> Thanks for your help guys and a lot of what you say is very helpful,
>>> especially about the linux utility. I didnt actually understand the
>>> bit where you say that when I got to BOOT FROM and select
>>> USB MEDIA, the report that I have no OS is actually coming
>>> from the hard drive: Are you assuming this from a failure to
>>> boot from the designated media, - that it goes on to try to
>>> boot from the next available media, the HDD?
>>
>> Most likely what you put on the USB media is code that
>> boots from the hard drive, so its complaining about what
>> it finds isnt on the hard drive, not the USB media.
>>
>> In other words you cant just copy stuff from a hard
>> drive to USB media and boot from that USB media.
>>
>>> But I think a lot of it misses the point completely: Look at the
>>> subject matter. Obviously I know that you cant make a disk
>>> image by just copying files to a new drive and hoping against
>>> all logic that you have copied the boot sector / MBR!
>>
>> That will work of you copy all the sectors from the old to the
>> new drive and the new drive is physically identical to the old drive.
>>
>>> Similarly obviously I have copied everything on the drive to a new
>>> drive, - I said so.
>>
>> Yes, but you dont know that the drive isnt corrupted before the copy.
>>
>>> And as the old drive does still boot into Windoews,
>>> I dont think that what I am copying from is corrupted
>>> What I am trying to do is to make that drive or the
>>> USB flas drive containing Windows 2000 bootable.
>>> I thought that by going through the Windows 2000
>>> install process and getting into the Restore Console
>>> and running fixboot or fixMBR, I could do that.
>>
>> Its more complicated than that.
>>
>>> I said so in the OP. Certain people her do not seem to have noticed
>>> this?
>>
>> Your english leaves a bit to be desired.
>>
>> Its not always completely clear exactly what you are saying.
>>
>>> And obviously I know that this drive which I describe carefully as
>>> "DYING" could die at any moment????? Personally i am amazed
>>> that it has lasted this long but I am now trying to concentrate on
>>> getting the new drive bootable where I dont have a CD to install
>>> from.
>>> Does anyone have any suggestions on this please or is there no way
>>> of doing this?
>>
>> I'd try something different to copy the drive to a new drive and see
>> if that will boot.
>>
>> I dont know enough about Copy Commander to know if its a got a
>> problem
>> or why the sort of copy you have done in the past isnt working for
>> you now.
>>
>> Its very likely that it isnt an exact copy of the drive, due to the
>> bad sectors,
>> and its that difference that is stopping the new drive from being
>> bootable.
>>
>> Try doing the copy using say xxclone or linux dd.
> What I did was to use the HP flash drive utility to format the USB
> drive and then use the utility which makes the drive bootable to
> make that drive bootable, Then copy the Windows 2000 CD onto it
That isnt going to make a USB drive bootable.
> I now note that xxclone can indeed make this drive
> bootable and wonder if this might do the trick?
Not with a USB drive.
> otherwise I will just try to use xxclone to copy the
> whole drive and then make that version bootable
And this is where your english falls down again. The last bit doesnt make any sense.
On Oct 24, 4:54*am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> DManzaluni wrote
>
>
>
>
>
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >> DManzaluni wrote
> >>> holarchy <holar...@nospam.com> wrote
> >>>> Arno wrote
> >>>>> DManzaluni <dmanzal...@googlemail.com> wrote
> >>>>>> I have a dying drive on an IBM Transnote which has no CD drive
> >>>>>> (and needless to say I have no restore discs). It still works
> >>>>>> and Maxtor's quick check tells me that it is OK but it is on the
> >>>>>> way out DEFINITELY.
> >>>>> The quick check does not do a surface scan and can miss things.
> >>>>>> Hitachi DFT reports excessive disk shock and doesnt seem
> >>>>>> to care that the drive still boots into WIndows 2000 and works.
> >>>>> DFT is a risk management tool. It does not care that the
> >>>>> drive is not yet completely dead. It tells you that it will
> >>>>> likely be dead soon. It also does not care about what
> >>>>> data is on that disk and it is not its job to care.
> >>>>>> So I am trying a trick I have used numerous times before,
> >>>>>> Copy Commander to copy the whole drive to a new one,
> >>>>>> including MBRs Bootsectors etc etc. This always works
> >>>>>> This time it isnt workinng. Even though the drive works and the
> >>>>>> computer boots, when I take the drive out and put it in another
> >>>>>> computer and boot off the Partition Commander boot disc, it sees
> >>>>>> the drive as empty space with a tiny red partition at the very
> >>>>>> top
> >>>>>> and a report of damaged partition. Needless to say nothing i can
> >>>>>> do can revive it or repair it. There is a CC command TOGGLE
> >>>>>> ACTIVE/BOOTABLE and if you leave a drive not active or bootable,
> >>>>>> it warns you but when I exit, i dont get any message telling me
> >>>>>> that no drive is active or bootable so Iassume the new drive is
> >>>>>> seen as being bootable
> >>>>>> Does anyone have any ideas as to what I can do please?
> >>>>> Try a real disk imager and try to make a sector image of the
> >>>>> drive. This will show unreadable areas as well. It is just
> >>>>> possible that too mauch is damaged. Tools than can copy
> >>>>> disks with read errors are rare, but for example Linux
> >>>>> dd_rescue can.
> >>>>>> I have tried copying all the files on it to a new drive but it,
> >>>>>> obviously, simply isnt bootable. I have also tried copying the
> >>>>>> whole of a Windows 2000 CD to a reformatted flash mem drive
> >>>>>> and making that one bootable (so that i can run fixmbr or
> >>>>>> fixboot)
> >>>>> Sorry, you seem to be missing fundamental understanding here.
> >>>>> That is not how a boot process works. It needs an assembler
> >>>>> program in the first sector or the boot sector of the drive.
> >>>> Nope, just some code.
> >>>>> The BIOS then loads this assembler program
> >>>> Nope, just some code.
> >>>>> and it takes control. Simply copying files to a target filesystem
> >>>>> is entirely unsuitable for making something bootable. but still
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> computer (which CAN boot from a flash drive) reports no OS,
> >>>>>> presumably on the flash drive.
> >>>>> You should find out.
> >>>>>> I dont think there is any utlity on UBCD4WIN which can make a
> >>>>>> drive bootable, nor can I imagine there are any Linux distros
> >>>>>> which would let me copy the whole drive like Copy Commander
> >>>>>> does? I am running
> >>>>>> out of ideas here!
> >>>>> Linux full disk 1:1 copy:
> >>>>> dd <source> <target>
> >>>>> or
> >>>>> cat <source> > <destination>
> >>>>> or numerous other ways.
> >>>>> With progress indicator and read errors on the source:
> >>>>> dd_rescue <source> <target>
> >>>>> On partition level (likely not what you need, target has to be
> >>>>> made bootable manually) with graphical user interface:
> >>>>> Use gparted, which also comes in a mini distro as bootable CD or
> >>>>> memory-stick.
> >>>>> Raw parted (commandline) boot floppies/CD images/USB stick
> >>>>> images are also available on the web.
> >>>>> Also, I hope you have backup of any files on the damaged drive
> >>>>> that you want to keep. A drive damaged by mechanical shock
> >>>>> can die any minute without warning. I also would advise you to
> >>>>> make that sector image now, before the drive is completely dead.
> >>> Thanks for your help guys and a lot of what you say is very helpful,
> >>> especially about the linux utility. I didnt actually understand the
> >>> bit where you say that when I got to BOOT FROM and select
> >>> USB MEDIA, the report that I have no OS is actually coming
> >>> from the hard drive: Are you assuming this from a failure to
> >>> boot from the designated media, - that it goes on to try to
> >>> boot from the next available media, the HDD?
>
> >> Most likely what you put on the USB media is code that
> >> boots from the hard drive, so its complaining about what
> >> it finds isnt on the hard drive, not the USB media.
>
> >> In other words you cant just copy stuff from a hard
> >> drive to USB media and boot from that USB media.
>
> >>> But I think a lot of it misses the point completely: Look at the
> >>> subject matter. Obviously I know that you cant make a disk
> >>> image by just copying files to a new drive and hoping against
> >>> all logic that you have copied the boot sector / MBR!
>
> >> That will work of you copy all the sectors from the old to the
> >> new drive and the new drive is physically identical to the old drive.
>
> >>> Similarly obviously I have copied everything on the drive to a new
> >>> drive, - I said so.
>
> >> Yes, but you dont know that the drive isnt corrupted before the copy.
>
> >>> And as the old drive does still boot into Windoews,
> >>> I dont think that what I am copying from is corrupted
> >>> What I am trying to do is to make that drive or the
> >>> USB flas drive containing Windows 2000 bootable.
> >>> I thought that by going through the Windows 2000
> >>> install process and getting into the Restore Console
> >>> and running fixboot or fixMBR, I could do that.
>
> >> Its more complicated than that.
>
> >>> I said so in the OP. Certain people her do not seem to have noticed
> >>> this?
>
> >> Your english leaves a bit to be desired.
>
> >> Its not always completely clear exactly what you are saying.
>
> >>> And obviously I know that this drive which I describe carefully as
> >>> "DYING" could die at any moment????? Personally i am amazed
> >>> that it has lasted this long but I am now trying to concentrate on
> >>> getting the new drive bootable where I dont have a CD to install
> >>> from.
> >>> Does anyone have any suggestions on this please or is there no way
> >>> of doing this?
>
> >> I'd try something different to copy the drive to a new drive and see
> >> if that will boot.
>
> >> I dont know enough about Copy Commander to know if its a got a
> >> problem
> >> or why the sort of copy you have done in the past isnt working for
> >> you now.
>
> >> Its very likely that it isnt an exact copy of the drive, due to the
> >> bad sectors,
> >> and its that difference that is stopping the new drive from being
> >> bootable.
>
> >> Try doing the copy using say xxclone or linux dd.
> > What I did was to use the HP flash drive utility to format the USB
> > drive and then use the utility which makes the drive bootable to
> > make that drive bootable, Then copy the Windows 2000 CD onto it
>
> That isnt going to make a USB drive bootable.
>
> > I now note that xxclone can indeed make this drive
> > bootable and wonder if this might do the trick?
>
> Not with a USB drive.
>
> > otherwise I will just try to use xxclone to copy the
> > whole drive and then make that version bootable
>
> And this is where your english falls down again. The last bit doesnt make any sense.
OK So maybe I should have clarified the use of the words USB DRIVE
because obviously what meant in the circumstances of trying to clone
a drive was 'the new drive presently connected to the USB port' as
opposed to the one in the hard drive bay. But I thought that
obvious. This is a dying drive. It could die at any moment. Why
would I want to bother copying its whole contents f to a flash memory
USB drive, thereby reading from every segment and try to make that
bootable? The contents need putting on a new drive to reinsert in the
computer. Why the intermediate step? Are you trying to make some
point here which I cant see? I have a cable which connects a 2.5 inch
drive to a USB port on the computer with the dying drive.
In any event what is so difficult to understand about making a copy of
a drive which obviously isnt bootable (because I said that all I had
done was to copy the files) and then making that version of the drive
bootable?
By the way, your suggestion as to xxclone was a good one, I am trying
it. And again, obviously I know that there is corruptoin in the
source drive which I said is failing, I just hope that as the system
boots properly into Windows and all programs seem to execute, the
corruption should be in files which arent critical to the OS. In any
event I will run SFC /scannow so where am I going wrong assuming
xxclone can sector copy the drive and can make it bootable when the
clone function has concluded?
DManzaluni wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> DManzaluni wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> DManzaluni wrote
>>>>> holarchy <holar...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>>>> Arno wrote
>>>>>>> DManzaluni <dmanzal...@googlemail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> I have a dying drive on an IBM Transnote which has no CD drive
>>>>>>>> (and needless to say I have no restore discs). It still works
>>>>>>>> and Maxtor's quick check tells me that it is OK but it is on
>>>>>>>> the way out DEFINITELY.
>>>>>>> The quick check does not do a surface scan and can miss things.
>>>>>>>> Hitachi DFT reports excessive disk shock and doesnt seem
>>>>>>>> to care that the drive still boots into WIndows 2000 and works.
>>>>>>> DFT is a risk management tool. It does not care that the
>>>>>>> drive is not yet completely dead. It tells you that it will
>>>>>>> likely be dead soon. It also does not care about what
>>>>>>> data is on that disk and it is not its job to care.
>>>>>>>> So I am trying a trick I have used numerous times before,
>>>>>>>> Copy Commander to copy the whole drive to a new one,
>>>>>>>> including MBRs Bootsectors etc etc. This always works
>>>>>>>> This time it isnt workinng. Even though the drive works and the
>>>>>>>> computer boots, when I take the drive out and put it in another
>>>>>>>> computer and boot off the Partition Commander boot disc, it
>>>>>>>> sees the drive as empty space with a tiny red partition at the
>>>>>>>> very top
>>>>>>>> and a report of damaged partition. Needless to say nothing i
>>>>>>>> can do can revive it or repair it. There is a CC command TOGGLE
>>>>>>>> ACTIVE/BOOTABLE and if you leave a drive not active or
>>>>>>>> bootable, it warns you but when I exit, i dont get any message
>>>>>>>> telling me that no drive is active or bootable so Iassume the
>>>>>>>> new drive is seen as being bootable
>>>>>>>> Does anyone have any ideas as to what I can do please?
>>>>>>> Try a real disk imager and try to make a sector image of the
>>>>>>> drive. This will show unreadable areas as well. It is just
>>>>>>> possible that too mauch is damaged. Tools than can copy
>>>>>>> disks with read errors are rare, but for example Linux
>>>>>>> dd_rescue can.
>>>>>>>> I have tried copying all the files on it to a new drive but it,
>>>>>>>> obviously, simply isnt bootable. I have also tried copying the
>>>>>>>> whole of a Windows 2000 CD to a reformatted flash mem drive
>>>>>>>> and making that one bootable (so that i can run fixmbr or
>>>>>>>> fixboot)
>>>>>>> Sorry, you seem to be missing fundamental understanding here.
>>>>>>> That is not how a boot process works. It needs an assembler
>>>>>>> program in the first sector or the boot sector of the drive.
>>>>>> Nope, just some code.
>>>>>>> The BIOS then loads this assembler program
>>>>>> Nope, just some code.
>>>>>>> and it takes control. Simply copying files to a target
>>>>>>> filesystem is entirely unsuitable for making something
>>>>>>> bootable. but still the
>>>>>>>> computer (which CAN boot from a flash drive) reports no OS,
>>>>>>>> presumably on the flash drive.
>>>>>>> You should find out.
>>>>>>>> I dont think there is any utlity on UBCD4WIN which can make a
>>>>>>>> drive bootable, nor can I imagine there are any Linux distros
>>>>>>>> which would let me copy the whole drive like Copy Commander
>>>>>>>> does? I am running
>>>>>>>> out of ideas here!
>>>>>>> Linux full disk 1:1 copy:
>>>>>>> dd <source> <target>
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> cat <source> > <destination>
>>>>>>> or numerous other ways.
>>>>>>> With progress indicator and read errors on the source:
>>>>>>> dd_rescue <source> <target>
>>>>>>> On partition level (likely not what you need, target has to be
>>>>>>> made bootable manually) with graphical user interface:
>>>>>>> Use gparted, which also comes in a mini distro as bootable CD or
>>>>>>> memory-stick.
>>>>>>> Raw parted (commandline) boot floppies/CD images/USB stick
>>>>>>> images are also available on the web.
>>>>>>> Also, I hope you have backup of any files on the damaged drive
>>>>>>> that you want to keep. A drive damaged by mechanical shock
>>>>>>> can die any minute without warning. I also would advise you to
>>>>>>> make that sector image now, before the drive is completely dead.
>>>>> Thanks for your help guys and a lot of what you say is very
>>>>> helpful, especially about the linux utility. I didnt actually
>>>>> understand the bit where you say that when I got to BOOT FROM and
>>>>> select
>>>>> USB MEDIA, the report that I have no OS is actually coming
>>>>> from the hard drive: Are you assuming this from a failure to
>>>>> boot from the designated media, - that it goes on to try to
>>>>> boot from the next available media, the HDD?
>>
>>>> Most likely what you put on the USB media is code that
>>>> boots from the hard drive, so its complaining about what
>>>> it finds isnt on the hard drive, not the USB media.
>>
>>>> In other words you cant just copy stuff from a hard
>>>> drive to USB media and boot from that USB media.
>>
>>>>> But I think a lot of it misses the point completely: Look at the
>>>>> subject matter. Obviously I know that you cant make a disk
>>>>> image by just copying files to a new drive and hoping against
>>>>> all logic that you have copied the boot sector / MBR!
>>
>>>> That will work of you copy all the sectors from the old to the
>>>> new drive and the new drive is physically identical to the old
>>>> drive.
>>
>>>>> Similarly obviously I have copied everything on the drive to a new
>>>>> drive, - I said so.
>>
>>>> Yes, but you dont know that the drive isnt corrupted before the
>>>> copy.
>>
>>>>> And as the old drive does still boot into Windoews,
>>>>> I dont think that what I am copying from is corrupted
>>>>> What I am trying to do is to make that drive or the
>>>>> USB flas drive containing Windows 2000 bootable.
>>>>> I thought that by going through the Windows 2000
>>>>> install process and getting into the Restore Console
>>>>> and running fixboot or fixMBR, I could do that.
>>
>>>> Its more complicated than that.
>>
>>>>> I said so in the OP. Certain people her do not seem to have
>>>>> noticed this?
>>
>>>> Your english leaves a bit to be desired.
>>
>>>> Its not always completely clear exactly what you are saying.
>>
>>>>> And obviously I know that this drive which I describe carefully as
>>>>> "DYING" could die at any moment????? Personally i am amazed
>>>>> that it has lasted this long but I am now trying to concentrate on
>>>>> getting the new drive bootable where I dont have a CD to install
>>>>> from.
>>>>> Does anyone have any suggestions on this please or is there no way
>>>>> of doing this?
>>
>>>> I'd try something different to copy the drive to a new drive and
>>>> see if that will boot.
>>
>>>> I dont know enough about Copy Commander to know if its a got a
>>>> problem
>>>> or why the sort of copy you have done in the past isnt working for
>>>> you now.
>>
>>>> Its very likely that it isnt an exact copy of the drive, due to the
>>>> bad sectors,
>>>> and its that difference that is stopping the new drive from being
>>>> bootable.
>>
>>>> Try doing the copy using say xxclone or linux dd.
>>> What I did was to use the HP flash drive utility to format the USB
>>> drive and then use the utility which makes the drive bootable to
>>> make that drive bootable, Then copy the Windows 2000 CD onto it
>>
>> That isnt going to make a USB drive bootable.
>>
>>> I now note that xxclone can indeed make this drive
>>> bootable and wonder if this might do the trick?
>>
>> Not with a USB drive.
>>
>>> otherwise I will just try to use xxclone to copy the
>>> whole drive and then make that version bootable
>>
>> And this is where your english falls down again. The last bit doesnt
>> make any sense.
> OK So maybe I should have clarified the use of the words USB DRIVE
> because obviously what meant in the circumstances of trying to clone
> a drive was 'the new drive presently connected to the USB port' as
> opposed to the one in the hard drive bay. But I thought that obvious.
Yes, but doesnt change anything. Booting from a USB connnected
drive is more complicated than just copying what is on the internal
drive to the USB connected drive. Its a non trivial exercise to boot
XP from a USB connected drive on most systems and presumably
that applys to Win 2K as well, for the same reasons.
Essentially the problem is that the early boot phase doesnt understand
what USB drives are about driver wise. When you boot from an internal
drive, it loads USB drivers later in the boot and so you can use USB
drives fine once its booted, but thats an entirely separate issue to
actually booting from an USB connected drive.
> This is a dying drive. It could die at any moment.
Yes, that was always clear.
> Why would I want to bother copying its whole contents f to a flash memory
> USB drive, thereby reading from every segment and try to make that bootable?
Because you dont have the contents of the drive before it started to die and as
you said in your original, you dont have a CD drive to install Win 2K from again
and no restore disks either. So basically what is on the dying drive is all you have.
> The contents need putting on a new drive to reinsert in the computer.
Yes. But it isnt clear that the contents havent got corrupted by the dying.
Just because it does boot Win 2K, even tho its dying, doesnt prove that
Copy Commander can copy Win 2K from it to another drive. It looks very
like the fact that its dying is confusing Copy Commander during the copy.
> Why the intermediate step?
Because it might let you do what you are trying to do.
> Are you trying to make some point here which I cant see?
Yes, that the problem may well be Copy Commander and a dying drive.
> I have a cable which connects a 2.5 inch drive to
> a USB port on the computer with the dying drive.
Thats fine for copying, but not necessarily for booting from that config.
> In any event what is so difficult to understand about making a copy of
> a drive which obviously isnt bootable (because I said that all I had done
> was to copy the files) and then making that version of the drive bootable?
What is so difficult to understand about the fact that while the Copy Commander
copy should be bootable, and used to be bootable before the drive died, that it isnt
anymore and that the only thing that has changed is that the drive is dying now ?
There's only two logical possibilitys. Copy Commander is having a problem
copying the contents of that drive now that its dying, or you are remembering
it wrong when you said that you used to be able to make a bootable copy
using Copy Commander before the drive was dying.
> By the way, your suggestion as to xxclone was a good one, I am trying
> it. And again, obviously I know that there is corruptoin in the source
> drive which I said is failing, I just hope that as the system boots
> properly into Windows and all programs seem to execute, the
> corruption should be in files which arent critical to the OS.
And that is quite likely given that it does still boot the dying drive.
> In any event I will run SFC /scannow so where am I going
> wrong assuming xxclone can sector copy the drive
xxclone isnt a sector copier, it works at the file level, not the sector level.
It also does a bit more than just file copying, to make the drive bootable.
> and can make it bootable when the clone function has concluded?
On Oct 24, 12:59*pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> DManzaluni wrote
>
>
>
>
>
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >> DManzaluni wrote
> >>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >>>> DManzaluni wrote
> >>>>> holarchy <holar...@nospam.com> wrote
> >>>>>> Arno wrote
> >>>>>>> DManzaluni <dmanzal...@googlemail.com> wrote
> >>>>>>>> I have a dying drive on an IBM Transnote which has no CD drive
> >>>>>>>> (and needless to say I have no restore discs). It still works
> >>>>>>>> and Maxtor's quick check tells me that it is OK but it is on
> >>>>>>>> the way out DEFINITELY.
> >>>>>>> The quick check does not do a surface scan and can miss things.
> >>>>>>>> Hitachi DFT reports excessive disk shock and doesnt seem
> >>>>>>>> to care that the drive still boots into WIndows 2000 and works.
> >>>>>>> DFT is a risk management tool. It does not care that the
> >>>>>>> drive is not yet completely dead. It tells you that it will
> >>>>>>> likely be dead soon. It also does not care about what
> >>>>>>> data is on that disk and it is not its job to care.
> >>>>>>>> So I am trying a trick I have used numerous times before,
> >>>>>>>> Copy Commander to copy the whole drive to a new one,
> >>>>>>>> including MBRs Bootsectors etc etc. This always works
> >>>>>>>> This time it isnt workinng. Even though the drive works and the
> >>>>>>>> computer boots, when I take the drive out and put it in another
> >>>>>>>> computer and boot off the Partition Commander boot disc, it
> >>>>>>>> sees the drive as empty space with a tiny red partition at the
> >>>>>>>> very top
> >>>>>>>> and a report of damaged partition. Needless to say nothing i
> >>>>>>>> can do can revive it or repair it. There is a CC command TOGGLE
> >>>>>>>> ACTIVE/BOOTABLE and if you leave a drive not active or
> >>>>>>>> bootable, it warns you but when I exit, i dont get any message
> >>>>>>>> telling me that no drive is active or bootable so Iassume the
> >>>>>>>> new drive is seen as being bootable
> >>>>>>>> Does anyone have any ideas as to what I can do please?
> >>>>>>> Try a real disk imager and try to make a sector image of the
> >>>>>>> drive. This will show unreadable areas as well. It is just
> >>>>>>> possible that too mauch is damaged. Tools than can copy
> >>>>>>> disks with read errors are rare, but for example Linux
> >>>>>>> dd_rescue can.
> >>>>>>>> I have tried copying all the files on it to a new drive but it,
> >>>>>>>> obviously, simply isnt bootable. I have also tried copying the
> >>>>>>>> whole of a Windows 2000 CD to a reformatted flash mem drive
> >>>>>>>> and making that one bootable (so that i can run fixmbr or
> >>>>>>>> fixboot)
> >>>>>>> Sorry, you seem to be missing fundamental understanding here.
> >>>>>>> That is not how a boot process works. It needs an assembler
> >>>>>>> program in the first sector or the boot sector of the drive.
> >>>>>> Nope, just some code.
> >>>>>>> The BIOS then loads this assembler program
> >>>>>> Nope, just some code.
> >>>>>>> and it takes control. Simply copying files to a target
> >>>>>>> filesystem is entirely unsuitable for making something
> >>>>>>> bootable. but still the
> >>>>>>>> computer (which CAN boot from a flash drive) reports no OS,
> >>>>>>>> presumably on the flash drive.
> >>>>>>> You should find out.
> >>>>>>>> I dont think there is any utlity on UBCD4WIN which can make a
> >>>>>>>> drive bootable, nor can I imagine there are any Linux distros
> >>>>>>>> which would let me copy the whole drive like Copy Commander
> >>>>>>>> does? I am running
> >>>>>>>> out of ideas here!
> >>>>>>> Linux full disk 1:1 copy:
> >>>>>>> dd <source> <target>
> >>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>> cat <source> > <destination>
> >>>>>>> or numerous other ways.
> >>>>>>> With progress indicator and read errors on the source:
> >>>>>>> dd_rescue <source> <target>
> >>>>>>> On partition level (likely not what you need, target has to be
> >>>>>>> made bootable manually) with graphical user interface:
> >>>>>>> Use gparted, which also comes in a mini distro as bootable CD or
> >>>>>>> memory-stick.
> >>>>>>> Raw parted (commandline) boot floppies/CD images/USB stick
> >>>>>>> images are also available on the web.
> >>>>>>> Also, I hope you have backup of any files on the damaged drive
> >>>>>>> that you want to keep. A drive damaged by mechanical shock
> >>>>>>> can die any minute without warning. I also would advise you to
> >>>>>>> make that sector image now, before the drive is completely dead.
> >>>>> Thanks for your help guys and a lot of what you say is very
> >>>>> helpful, especially about the linux utility. I didnt actually
> >>>>> understand the bit where you say that when I got to BOOT FROM and
> >>>>> select
> >>>>> USB MEDIA, the report that I have no OS is actually coming
> >>>>> from the hard drive: Are you assuming this from a failure to
> >>>>> boot from the designated media, - that it goes on to try to
> >>>>> boot from the next available media, the HDD?
>
> >>>> Most likely what you put on the USB media is code that
> >>>> boots from the hard drive, so its complaining about what
> >>>> it finds isnt on the hard drive, not the USB media.
>
> >>>> In other words you cant just copy stuff from a hard
> >>>> drive to USB media and boot from that USB media.
>
> >>>>> But I think a lot of it misses the point completely: Look at the
> >>>>> subject matter. Obviously I know that you cant make a disk
> >>>>> image by just copying files to a new drive and hoping against
> >>>>> all logic that you have copied the boot sector / MBR!
>
> >>>> That will work of you copy all the sectors from the old to the
> >>>> new drive and the new drive is physically identical to the old
> >>>> drive.
>
> >>>>> Similarly obviously I have copied everything on the drive to a new
> >>>>> drive, - I said so.
>
> >>>> Yes, but you dont know that the drive isnt corrupted before the
> >>>> copy.
>
> >>>>> And as the old drive does still boot into Windoews,
> >>>>> I dont think that what I am copying from is corrupted
> >>>>> What I am trying to do is to make that drive or the
> >>>>> USB flas drive containing Windows 2000 bootable.
> >>>>> I thought that by going through the Windows 2000
> >>>>> install process and getting into the Restore Console
> >>>>> and running fixboot or fixMBR, I could do that.
>
> >>>> Its more complicated than that.
>
> >>>>> I said so in the OP. Certain people her do not seem to have
> >>>>> noticed this?
>
> >>>> Your english leaves a bit to be desired.
>
> >>>> Its not always completely clear exactly what you are saying.
>
> >>>>> And obviously I know that this drive which I describe carefully as
> >>>>> "DYING" could die at any moment????? Personally i am amazed
> >>>>> that it has lasted this long but I am now trying to concentrate on
> >>>>> getting the new drive bootable where I dont have a CD to install
> >>>>> from.
> >>>>> Does anyone have any suggestions on this please or is there no way
> >>>>> of doing this?
>
> >>>> I'd try something different to copy the drive to a new drive and
> >>>> see if that will boot.
>
> >>>> I dont know enough about Copy Commander to know if its a got a
> >>>> problem
> >>>> or why the sort of copy you have done in the past isnt working for
> >>>> you now.
>
> >>>> Its very likely that it isnt an exact copy of the drive, due to the
> >>>> bad sectors,
> >>>> and its that difference that is stopping the new drive from being
> >>>> bootable.
>
> >>>> Try doing the copy using say xxclone or linux dd.
> >>> What I did was to use the HP flash drive utility to format the USB
> >>> drive and then use the utility which makes the drive bootable to
> >>> make that drive bootable, Then copy the Windows 2000 CD onto it
>
> >> That isnt going to make a USB drive bootable.
>
> >>> I now note that xxclone can indeed make this drive
> >>> bootable and wonder if this might do the trick?
>
> >> Not with a USB drive.
>
> >>> otherwise I will just try to use xxclone to copy the
> >>> whole drive and then make that version bootable
>
> >> And this is where your english falls down again. The last bit doesnt
> >> make any sense.
> > OK So maybe I should have clarified the use of the words USB DRIVE
> > because obviously what *meant in the circumstances of trying to clone
> > a drive was 'the new drive presently connected to the USB port' as
> > opposed to the one in the hard drive * bay. But I thought that obvious.
>
> Yes, but doesnt change anything. Booting from a USB connnected
> drive is more complicated than just copying what is on the internal
> drive to the USB connected drive. Its a non trivial exercise to boot
> XP from a USB connected drive on most systems and presumably
> that applys to Win 2K as well, for the same reasons.
>
> Essentially the problem is that the early boot phase doesnt understand
> what USB drives are about driver wise. When you boot from an internal
> drive, it loads USB drivers later in the boot and so you can use USB
> drives fine once its booted, but thats an entirely separate issue to
> actually booting from an USB connected drive.
>
> > This is *a dying drive. It could die at any moment.
>
> Yes, that was always clear.
>
> > Why would I want to bother copying its whole contents f to a flash memory
> > USB drive, thereby reading from every segment and try to make that bootable?
>
> Because you dont have the contents of the drive before it started to die and as
> you said in your original, you dont have a CD drive to install Win 2K from again
> and no restore disks either. So basically what is on the dying drive is all you have.
>
> > The contents need putting on a new drive to reinsert in the computer.
>
> Yes. But it isnt clear that the contents havent got corrupted by the dying.
>
> Just because it does boot Win 2K, even tho its dying, doesnt prove that
> Copy Commander can copy Win 2K from it to another drive. It looks very
> like the fact that its dying is confusing Copy Commander during the copy.
>
> > Why the intermediate step?
>
> Because it might let you do what you are trying to do.
>
> > Are you trying to make some point here which I cant see?
>
> Yes, that the problem may well be Copy Commander and a dying drive.
>
> > I have a cable which connects a 2.5 inch drive to
> > a USB port on the computer with the dying drive.
>
> Thats fine for copying, but not necessarily for booting from that config.
>
>
>
> > In any event what is so difficult to
>
> ...
>
> read more »
ro
This is becoming really annoying: I have now used xxclone to clone the
drive. I watched after the copying of files was concluded and saw it
copying the boot.ini and the MBR and making it bootable. At the end
of the process xxclone recommends you to go through the process again
in case what you have cloned isnt bootable. So I did this again.
But still the drive wont boot. I went through the process again and
still it wont boot.
So I know that the old drive may be corrupted adn I suspect where the
corruption may be (in folders like downloaded program files etc).where
corruption crops up in chkdsk but in essence the old drive DOES boot
so I suspect the problem isn't in the MBR or i nboot.ini.
The problem is slightly better than it was after I had copies all
files in linux and made it bootable in copy commander when I got the
error message "cannot find operating system'. Now it bets out of the
BIOS and looks on the drive and still doesnt see much, leaving me with
a simple cursor at the top of the screen.
Does this 'message' (actually clearly a lack of message) mean anything
to anyone? Is it seeing the boot,ini and not getting the right
information out of it? Or is it not seeing the master boot record? Or
is the file allocation table wrong in some way? I cant find anywhere
in the BIOS where the drive is actually identified but have tried
loading defaults with the new drive in place: That should suffice
shouldnt it?
DManzaluni wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> DManzaluni wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> DManzaluni wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> DManzaluni wrote
>>>>>>> holarchy <holar...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Arno wrote
>>>>>>>>> DManzaluni <dmanzal...@googlemail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> I have a dying drive on an IBM Transnote which has no CD
>>>>>>>>>> drive (and needless to say I have no restore discs). It
>>>>>>>>>> still works and Maxtor's quick check tells me that it is OK
>>>>>>>>>> but it is on the way out DEFINITELY.
>>>>>>>>> The quick check does not do a surface scan and can miss
>>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>>>> Hitachi DFT reports excessive disk shock and doesnt seem
>>>>>>>>>> to care that the drive still boots into WIndows 2000 and
>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>> DFT is a risk management tool. It does not care that the
>>>>>>>>> drive is not yet completely dead. It tells you that it will
>>>>>>>>> likely be dead soon. It also does not care about what
>>>>>>>>> data is on that disk and it is not its job to care.
>>>>>>>>>> So I am trying a trick I have used numerous times before,
>>>>>>>>>> Copy Commander to copy the whole drive to a new one,
>>>>>>>>>> including MBRs Bootsectors etc etc. This always works
>>>>>>>>>> This time it isnt workinng. Even though the drive works and
>>>>>>>>>> the computer boots, when I take the drive out and put it in
>>>>>>>>>> another computer and boot off the Partition Commander boot
>>>>>>>>>> disc, it sees the drive as empty space with a tiny red
>>>>>>>>>> partition at the very top
>>>>>>>>>> and a report of damaged partition. Needless to say nothing i
>>>>>>>>>> can do can revive it or repair it. There is a CC command
>>>>>>>>>> TOGGLE ACTIVE/BOOTABLE and if you leave a drive not active or
>>>>>>>>>> bootable, it warns you but when I exit, i dont get any
>>>>>>>>>> message telling me that no drive is active or bootable so
>>>>>>>>>> Iassume the new drive is seen as being bootable
>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone have any ideas as to what I can do please?
>>>>>>>>> Try a real disk imager and try to make a sector image of the
>>>>>>>>> drive. This will show unreadable areas as well. It is just
>>>>>>>>> possible that too mauch is damaged. Tools than can copy
>>>>>>>>> disks with read errors are rare, but for example Linux
>>>>>>>>> dd_rescue can.
>>>>>>>>>> I have tried copying all the files on it to a new drive but
>>>>>>>>>> it, obviously, simply isnt bootable. I have also tried
>>>>>>>>>> copying the whole of a Windows 2000 CD to a reformatted
>>>>>>>>>> flash mem drive and making that one bootable (so that i can
>>>>>>>>>> run fixmbr or fixboot)
>>>>>>>>> Sorry, you seem to be missing fundamental understanding here.
>>>>>>>>> That is not how a boot process works. It needs an assembler
>>>>>>>>> program in the first sector or the boot sector of the drive.
>>>>>>>> Nope, just some code.
>>>>>>>>> The BIOS then loads this assembler program
>>>>>>>> Nope, just some code.
>>>>>>>>> and it takes control. Simply copying files to a target
>>>>>>>>> filesystem is entirely unsuitable for making something
>>>>>>>>> bootable. but still the
>>>>>>>>>> computer (which CAN boot from a flash drive) reports no OS,
>>>>>>>>>> presumably on the flash drive.
>>>>>>>>> You should find out.
>>>>>>>>>> I dont think there is any utlity on UBCD4WIN which can make a
>>>>>>>>>> drive bootable, nor can I imagine there are any Linux distros
>>>>>>>>>> which would let me copy the whole drive like Copy Commander
>>>>>>>>>> does? I am running
>>>>>>>>>> out of ideas here!
>>>>>>>>> Linux full disk 1:1 copy:
>>>>>>>>> dd <source> <target>
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> cat <source> > <destination>
>>>>>>>>> or numerous other ways.
>>>>>>>>> With progress indicator and read errors on the source:
>>>>>>>>> dd_rescue <source> <target>
>>>>>>>>> On partition level (likely not what you need, target has to be
>>>>>>>>> made bootable manually) with graphical user interface:
>>>>>>>>> Use gparted, which also comes in a mini distro as bootable CD
>>>>>>>>> or memory-stick.
>>>>>>>>> Raw parted (commandline) boot floppies/CD images/USB stick
>>>>>>>>> images are also available on the web.
>>>>>>>>> Also, I hope you have backup of any files on the damaged drive
>>>>>>>>> that you want to keep. A drive damaged by mechanical shock
>>>>>>>>> can die any minute without warning. I also would advise you to
>>>>>>>>> make that sector image now, before the drive is completely
>>>>>>>>> dead.
>>>>>>> Thanks for your help guys and a lot of what you say is very
>>>>>>> helpful, especially about the linux utility. I didnt actually
>>>>>>> understand the bit where you say that when I got to BOOT FROM
>>>>>>> and select
>>>>>>> USB MEDIA, the report that I have no OS is actually coming
>>>>>>> from the hard drive: Are you assuming this from a failure to
>>>>>>> boot from the designated media, - that it goes on to try to
>>>>>>> boot from the next available media, the HDD?
>>
>>>>>> Most likely what you put on the USB media is code that
>>>>>> boots from the hard drive, so its complaining about what
>>>>>> it finds isnt on the hard drive, not the USB media.
>>
>>>>>> In other words you cant just copy stuff from a hard
>>>>>> drive to USB media and boot from that USB media.
>>
>>>>>>> But I think a lot of it misses the point completely: Look at the
>>>>>>> subject matter. Obviously I know that you cant make a disk
>>>>>>> image by just copying files to a new drive and hoping against
>>>>>>> all logic that you have copied the boot sector / MBR!
>>
>>>>>> That will work of you copy all the sectors from the old to the
>>>>>> new drive and the new drive is physically identical to the old
>>>>>> drive.
>>
>>>>>>> Similarly obviously I have copied everything on the drive to a
>>>>>>> new drive, - I said so.
>>
>>>>>> Yes, but you dont know that the drive isnt corrupted before the
>>>>>> copy.
>>
>>>>>>> And as the old drive does still boot into Windoews,
>>>>>>> I dont think that what I am copying from is corrupted
>>>>>>> What I am trying to do is to make that drive or the
>>>>>>> USB flas drive containing Windows 2000 bootable.
>>>>>>> I thought that by going through the Windows 2000
>>>>>>> install process and getting into the Restore Console
>>>>>>> and running fixboot or fixMBR, I could do that.
>>
>>>>>> Its more complicated than that.
>>
>>>>>>> I said so in the OP. Certain people her do not seem to have
>>>>>>> noticed this?
>>
>>>>>> Your english leaves a bit to be desired.
>>
>>>>>> Its not always completely clear exactly what you are saying.
>>
>>>>>>> And obviously I know that this drive which I describe carefully
>>>>>>> as "DYING" could die at any moment????? Personally i am amazed
>>>>>>> that it has lasted this long but I am now trying to concentrate
>>>>>>> on getting the new drive bootable where I dont have a CD to
>>>>>>> install from.
>>>>>>> Does anyone have any suggestions on this please or is there no
>>>>>>> way of doing this?
>>
>>>>>> I'd try something different to copy the drive to a new drive and
>>>>>> see if that will boot.
>>
>>>>>> I dont know enough about Copy Commander to know if its a got a
>>>>>> problem
>>>>>> or why the sort of copy you have done in the past isnt working
>>>>>> for you now.
>>
>>>>>> Its very likely that it isnt an exact copy of the drive, due to
>>>>>> the bad sectors,
>>>>>> and its that difference that is stopping the new drive from being
>>>>>> bootable.
>>
>>>>>> Try doing the copy using say xxclone or linux dd.
>>>>> What I did was to use the HP flash drive utility to format the USB
>>>>> drive and then use the utility which makes the drive bootable to
>>>>> make that drive bootable, Then copy the Windows 2000 CD onto it
>>
>>>> That isnt going to make a USB drive bootable.
>>
>>>>> I now note that xxclone can indeed make this drive
>>>>> bootable and wonder if this might do the trick?
>>
>>>> Not with a USB drive.
>>
>>>>> otherwise I will just try to use xxclone to copy the
>>>>> whole drive and then make that version bootable
>>
>>>> And this is where your english falls down again. The last bit
>>>> doesnt make any sense.
>>> OK So maybe I should have clarified the use of the words USB DRIVE
>>> because obviously what meant in the circumstances of trying to clone
>>> a drive was 'the new drive presently connected to the USB port' as
>>> opposed to the one in the hard drive bay. But I thought that
>>> obvious.
>>
>> Yes, but doesnt change anything. Booting from a USB connnected
>> drive is more complicated than just copying what is on the internal
>> drive to the USB connected drive. Its a non trivial exercise to boot
>> XP from a USB connected drive on most systems and presumably
>> that applys to Win 2K as well, for the same reasons.
>>
>> Essentially the problem is that the early boot phase doesnt
>> understand
>> what USB drives are about driver wise. When you boot from an internal
>> drive, it loads USB drivers later in the boot and so you can use USB
>> drives fine once its booted, but thats an entirely separate issue to
>> actually booting from an USB connected drive.
>>
>>> This is a dying drive. It could die at any moment.
>>
>> Yes, that was always clear.
>>
>>> Why would I want to bother copying its whole contents f to a flash
>>> memory USB drive, thereby reading from every segment and try to
>>> make that bootable?
>>
>> Because you dont have the contents of the drive before it started to
>> die and as
>> you said in your original, you dont have a CD drive to install Win
>> 2K from again
>> and no restore disks either. So basically what is on the dying drive
>> is all you have.
>>
>>> The contents need putting on a new drive to reinsert in the
>>> computer.
>>
>> Yes. But it isnt clear that the contents havent got corrupted by the
>> dying.
>>
>> Just because it does boot Win 2K, even tho its dying, doesnt prove
>> that
>> Copy Commander can copy Win 2K from it to another drive. It looks
>> very
>> like the fact that its dying is confusing Copy Commander during the
>> copy.
>>
>>> Why the intermediate step?
>>
>> Because it might let you do what you are trying to do.
>>
>>> Are you trying to make some point here which I cant see?
>>
>> Yes, that the problem may well be Copy Commander and a dying drive.
>>
>>> I have a cable which connects a 2.5 inch drive to
>>> a USB port on the computer with the dying drive.
>>
>> Thats fine for copying, but not necessarily for booting from that
>> config.
>>
>>
>>
>>> In any event what is so difficult to
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more »
> This is becoming really annoying:
Yeah, it can get frustrating.
> I have now used xxclone to clone the drive. I watched after the copying
> of files was concluded and saw it copying the boot.ini and the MBR and
> making it bootable. At the end of the process xxclone recommends you
> to go through the process again in case what you have cloned isnt
> bootable. So I did this again.
> But still the drive wont boot. I went through
> the process again and still it wont boot.
Presumably the drive has failed in a way that affects
the files involved in the early part of the boot phase.
I'd normally do a repair install on the new drive at this stage,
but it isnt that easy to do without a cd drive in the laptop.
> So I know that the old drive may be corrupted
Yes. In fact you know its got problems.
> adn I suspect where the corruption may be (in folders like downloaded program files etc).
Corruption there wouldnt stop it booting.
> where corruption crops up in chkdsk but in essence the old drive
> DOES boot so I suspect the problem isn't in the MBR or in boot.ini.
Or something else used in the early boot phase which works well enough
when booting the old drive, but which stops it copying to the new drive.
Thats why I would normally do a repair install, so those files are replaced,
but it isnt easy to do a repair install with your hardware config.
> The problem is slightly better than it was after I had copies
> all files in linux and made it bootable in copy commander
> when I got the error message "cannot find operating system'.
> Now it bets out of the BIOS and looks on the drive and still doesnt
> see much, leaving me with a simple cursor at the top of the screen.
Which is more evidence of a problem with one
of the files involved in the early boot phase.
> Does this 'message' (actually clearly a lack of message) mean anything to anyone?
Yes, that there is a problem with the early boot phase.
> Is it seeing the boot,ini and not getting the right information out of it?
Unlikely that is the problem. You should be able to check the boot.ini
and see whats in it, its just a normal text file and the format of the
entrys is pretty obvious and well documented on the net anyway.
> Or is it not seeing the master boot record?
Thats unlikely and you can check that with a hex editor
or dumper, its the first physical sector on the hard drive.
> Or is the file allocation table wrong in some way?
Wont be that.
> I cant find anywhere in the BIOS where the drive is actually identified but have
> tried loading defaults with the new drive in place: That should suffice shouldnt it?
Yes. And it does boot from the old drive as you say, so that should be setup fine.
Rod Speed wrote:
> DManzaluni wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> DManzaluni wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> DManzaluni wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> DManzaluni wrote
>>>>>>>> holarchy <holar...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Arno wrote
>>>>>>>>>> DManzaluni <dmanzal...@googlemail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a dying drive on an IBM Transnote which has no CD
>>>>>>>>>>> drive (and needless to say I have no restore discs). It
>>>>>>>>>>> still works and Maxtor's quick check tells me that it is OK
>>>>>>>>>>> but it is on the way out DEFINITELY.
>>>>>>>>>> The quick check does not do a surface scan and can miss
>>>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hitachi DFT reports excessive disk shock and doesnt seem
>>>>>>>>>>> to care that the drive still boots into WIndows 2000 and
>>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>> DFT is a risk management tool. It does not care that the
>>>>>>>>>> drive is not yet completely dead. It tells you that it will
>>>>>>>>>> likely be dead soon. It also does not care about what
>>>>>>>>>> data is on that disk and it is not its job to care.
>>>>>>>>>>> So I am trying a trick I have used numerous times before,
>>>>>>>>>>> Copy Commander to copy the whole drive to a new one,
>>>>>>>>>>> including MBRs Bootsectors etc etc. This always works
>>>>>>>>>>> This time it isnt workinng. Even though the drive works and
>>>>>>>>>>> the computer boots, when I take the drive out and put it in
>>>>>>>>>>> another computer and boot off the Partition Commander boot
>>>>>>>>>>> disc, it sees the drive as empty space with a tiny red
>>>>>>>>>>> partition at the very top
>>>>>>>>>>> and a report of damaged partition. Needless to say nothing i
>>>>>>>>>>> can do can revive it or repair it. There is a CC command
>>>>>>>>>>> TOGGLE ACTIVE/BOOTABLE and if you leave a drive not active
>>>>>>>>>>> or bootable, it warns you but when I exit, i dont get any
>>>>>>>>>>> message telling me that no drive is active or bootable so
>>>>>>>>>>> Iassume the new drive is seen as being bootable
>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone have any ideas as to what I can do please?
>>>>>>>>>> Try a real disk imager and try to make a sector image of the
>>>>>>>>>> drive. This will show unreadable areas as well. It is just
>>>>>>>>>> possible that too mauch is damaged. Tools than can copy
>>>>>>>>>> disks with read errors are rare, but for example Linux
>>>>>>>>>> dd_rescue can.
>>>>>>>>>>> I have tried copying all the files on it to a new drive but
>>>>>>>>>>> it, obviously, simply isnt bootable. I have also tried
>>>>>>>>>>> copying the whole of a Windows 2000 CD to a reformatted
>>>>>>>>>>> flash mem drive and making that one bootable (so that i can
>>>>>>>>>>> run fixmbr or fixboot)
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, you seem to be missing fundamental understanding here.
>>>>>>>>>> That is not how a boot process works. It needs an assembler
>>>>>>>>>> program in the first sector or the boot sector of the drive.
>>>>>>>>> Nope, just some code.
>>>>>>>>>> The BIOS then loads this assembler program
>>>>>>>>> Nope, just some code.
>>>>>>>>>> and it takes control. Simply copying files to a target
>>>>>>>>>> filesystem is entirely unsuitable for making something
>>>>>>>>>> bootable. but still the
>>>>>>>>>>> computer (which CAN boot from a flash drive) reports no OS,
>>>>>>>>>>> presumably on the flash drive.
>>>>>>>>>> You should find out.
>>>>>>>>>>> I dont think there is any utlity on UBCD4WIN which can make
>>>>>>>>>>> a drive bootable, nor can I imagine there are any Linux
>>>>>>>>>>> distros which would let me copy the whole drive like Copy
>>>>>>>>>>> Commander does? I am running
>>>>>>>>>>> out of ideas here!
>>>>>>>>>> Linux full disk 1:1 copy:
>>>>>>>>>> dd <source> <target>
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> cat <source> > <destination>
>>>>>>>>>> or numerous other ways.
>>>>>>>>>> With progress indicator and read errors on the source:
>>>>>>>>>> dd_rescue <source> <target>
>>>>>>>>>> On partition level (likely not what you need, target has to
>>>>>>>>>> be made bootable manually) with graphical user interface:
>>>>>>>>>> Use gparted, which also comes in a mini distro as bootable CD
>>>>>>>>>> or memory-stick.
>>>>>>>>>> Raw parted (commandline) boot floppies/CD images/USB stick
>>>>>>>>>> images are also available on the web.
>>>>>>>>>> Also, I hope you have backup of any files on the damaged
>>>>>>>>>> drive that you want to keep. A drive damaged by mechanical
>>>>>>>>>> shock can die any minute without warning. I also would
>>>>>>>>>> advise you to make that sector image now, before the drive
>>>>>>>>>> is completely dead.
>>>>>>>> Thanks for your help guys and a lot of what you say is very
>>>>>>>> helpful, especially about the linux utility. I didnt actually
>>>>>>>> understand the bit where you say that when I got to BOOT FROM
>>>>>>>> and select
>>>>>>>> USB MEDIA, the report that I have no OS is actually coming
>>>>>>>> from the hard drive: Are you assuming this from a failure to
>>>>>>>> boot from the designated media, - that it goes on to try to
>>>>>>>> boot from the next available media, the HDD?
>>>
>>>>>>> Most likely what you put on the USB media is code that
>>>>>>> boots from the hard drive, so its complaining about what
>>>>>>> it finds isnt on the hard drive, not the USB media.
>>>
>>>>>>> In other words you cant just copy stuff from a hard
>>>>>>> drive to USB media and boot from that USB media.
>>>
>>>>>>>> But I think a lot of it misses the point completely: Look at
>>>>>>>> the subject matter. Obviously I know that you cant make a disk
>>>>>>>> image by just copying files to a new drive and hoping against
>>>>>>>> all logic that you have copied the boot sector / MBR!
>>>
>>>>>>> That will work of you copy all the sectors from the old to the
>>>>>>> new drive and the new drive is physically identical to the old
>>>>>>> drive.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Similarly obviously I have copied everything on the drive to a
>>>>>>>> new drive, - I said so.
>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, but you dont know that the drive isnt corrupted before the
>>>>>>> copy.
>>>
>>>>>>>> And as the old drive does still boot into Windoews,
>>>>>>>> I dont think that what I am copying from is corrupted
>>>>>>>> What I am trying to do is to make that drive or the
>>>>>>>> USB flas drive containing Windows 2000 bootable.
>>>>>>>> I thought that by going through the Windows 2000
>>>>>>>> install process and getting into the Restore Console
>>>>>>>> and running fixboot or fixMBR, I could do that.
>>>
>>>>>>> Its more complicated than that.
>>>
>>>>>>>> I said so in the OP. Certain people her do not seem to have
>>>>>>>> noticed this?
>>>
>>>>>>> Your english leaves a bit to be desired.
>>>
>>>>>>> Its not always completely clear exactly what you are saying.
>>>
>>>>>>>> And obviously I know that this drive which I describe carefully
>>>>>>>> as "DYING" could die at any moment????? Personally i am amazed
>>>>>>>> that it has lasted this long but I am now trying to concentrate
>>>>>>>> on getting the new drive bootable where I dont have a CD to
>>>>>>>> install from.
>>>>>>>> Does anyone have any suggestions on this please or is there no
>>>>>>>> way of doing this?
>>>
>>>>>>> I'd try something different to copy the drive to a new drive and
>>>>>>> see if that will boot.
>>>
>>>>>>> I dont know enough about Copy Commander to know if its a got a
>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>> or why the sort of copy you have done in the past isnt working
>>>>>>> for you now.
>>>
>>>>>>> Its very likely that it isnt an exact copy of the drive, due to
>>>>>>> the bad sectors,
>>>>>>> and its that difference that is stopping the new drive from
>>>>>>> being bootable.
>>>
>>>>>>> Try doing the copy using say xxclone or linux dd.
>>>>>> What I did was to use the HP flash drive utility to format the
>>>>>> USB drive and then use the utility which makes the drive
>>>>>> bootable to make that drive bootable, Then copy the Windows 2000
>>>>>> CD onto it
>>>
>>>>> That isnt going to make a USB drive bootable.
>>>
>>>>>> I now note that xxclone can indeed make this drive
>>>>>> bootable and wonder if this might do the trick?
>>>
>>>>> Not with a USB drive.
>>>
>>>>>> otherwise I will just try to use xxclone to copy the
>>>>>> whole drive and then make that version bootable
>>>
>>>>> And this is where your english falls down again. The last bit
>>>>> doesnt make any sense.
>>>> OK So maybe I should have clarified the use of the words USB DRIVE
>>>> because obviously what meant in the circumstances of trying to
>>>> clone a drive was 'the new drive presently connected to the USB
>>>> port' as opposed to the one in the hard drive bay. But I thought
>>>> that obvious.
>>>
>>> Yes, but doesnt change anything. Booting from a USB connnected
>>> drive is more complicated than just copying what is on the internal
>>> drive to the USB connected drive. Its a non trivial exercise to boot
>>> XP from a USB connected drive on most systems and presumably
>>> that applys to Win 2K as well, for the same reasons.
>>>
>>> Essentially the problem is that the early boot phase doesnt
>>> understand
>>> what USB drives are about driver wise. When you boot from an
>>> internal drive, it loads USB drivers later in the boot and so you
>>> can use USB drives fine once its booted, but thats an entirely
>>> separate issue to actually booting from an USB connected drive.
>>>
>>>> This is a dying drive. It could die at any moment.
>>>
>>> Yes, that was always clear.
>>>
>>>> Why would I want to bother copying its whole contents f to a flash
>>>> memory USB drive, thereby reading from every segment and try to
>>>> make that bootable?
>>>
>>> Because you dont have the contents of the drive before it started to
>>> die and as
>>> you said in your original, you dont have a CD drive to install Win
>>> 2K from again
>>> and no restore disks either. So basically what is on the dying drive
>>> is all you have.
>>>
>>>> The contents need putting on a new drive to reinsert in the
>>>> computer.
>>>
>>> Yes. But it isnt clear that the contents havent got corrupted by the
>>> dying.
>>>
>>> Just because it does boot Win 2K, even tho its dying, doesnt prove
>>> that
>>> Copy Commander can copy Win 2K from it to another drive. It looks
>>> very
>>> like the fact that its dying is confusing Copy Commander during the
>>> copy.
>>>
>>>> Why the intermediate step?
>>>
>>> Because it might let you do what you are trying to do.
>>>
>>>> Are you trying to make some point here which I cant see?
>>>
>>> Yes, that the problem may well be Copy Commander and a dying drive.
>>>
>>>> I have a cable which connects a 2.5 inch drive to
>>>> a USB port on the computer with the dying drive.
>>>
>>> Thats fine for copying, but not necessarily for booting from that
>>> config.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> In any event what is so difficult to
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> read more »
>
>> This is becoming really annoying:
>
> Yeah, it can get frustrating.
>
>> I have now used xxclone to clone the drive. I watched after the
>> copying of files was concluded and saw it copying the boot.ini and the MBR
>> and making it bootable. At the end of the process xxclone recommends you
>> to go through the process again in case what you have cloned isnt
>> bootable. So I did this again.
>
>> But still the drive wont boot. I went through
>> the process again and still it wont boot.
>
> Presumably the drive has failed in a way that affects
> the files involved in the early part of the boot phase.
>
> I'd normally do a repair install on the new drive at this stage,
> but it isnt that easy to do without a cd drive in the laptop.
And Win2K doesnt have a repair install.
>> So I know that the old drive may be corrupted
>
> Yes. In fact you know its got problems.
>
>> adn I suspect where the corruption may be (in folders like
>> downloaded program files etc).
>
> Corruption there wouldnt stop it booting.
>
>> where corruption crops up in chkdsk but in essence the old drive
>> DOES boot so I suspect the problem isn't in the MBR or in boot.ini.
>
> Or something else used in the early boot phase which works well enough
> when booting the old drive, but which stops it copying to the new
> drive.
> Thats why I would normally do a repair install, so those files are
> replaced, but it isnt easy to do a repair install with your hardware config.
>
>> The problem is slightly better than it was after I had copies
>> all files in linux and made it bootable in copy commander
>> when I got the error message "cannot find operating system'.
>> Now it bets out of the BIOS and looks on the drive and still doesnt
>> see much, leaving me with a simple cursor at the top of the screen.
>
> Which is more evidence of a problem with one
> of the files involved in the early boot phase.
>
>> Does this 'message' (actually clearly a lack of message) mean
>> anything to anyone?
>
> Yes, that there is a problem with the early boot phase.
>
>> Is it seeing the boot,ini and not getting the right information out
>> of it?
>
> Unlikely that is the problem. You should be able to check the boot.ini
> and see whats in it, its just a normal text file and the format of the
> entrys is pretty obvious and well documented on the net anyway.
>
>> Or is it not seeing the master boot record?
>
> Thats unlikely and you can check that with a hex editor
> or dumper, its the first physical sector on the hard drive.
>
>> Or is the file allocation table wrong in some way?
>
> Wont be that.
>
>> I cant find anywhere in the BIOS where the drive is actually
>> identified but have tried loading defaults with the new drive in place: That should
>> suffice shouldnt it?
>
> Yes. And it does boot from the old drive as you say, so that should
> be setup fine.
"something else used in the early boot phase which works well enough
when booting the old drive, but which stops it copying to the new
drive" Copying OR re-creating!!
This is exceptionally troubling, as you seem to imply there is no
cure: This problem with early boot phase was why I was trying to get
the windows 2000 install files onto a flash memory drive and make THAT
bootable and try to correct things with that but I couldnt get that
solution to m did treat my drive as an HP one but still it wouldnt
boot off it. I hope this isnt a hardware problem!
Infuriating as I suspect that all problems with the drive can be
overcome except for these mysterious early boot phase files.
Curiously enough I have often had the opposite problem with dying
drives: They all usually go through that early boot phase and THEN
wont let the system boot into the OS
Is there really nothing in UBCD4WIN which might fix those early boot
phase files?
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:34:42 -0800 (PST), DManzaluni
<dmanzaluni@googlemail.com> wrote:
>This is becoming really annoying: I have now used xxclone to clone the
>drive. I watched after the copying of files was concluded and saw it
>copying the boot.ini and the MBR and making it bootable. At the end
>of the process xxclone recommends you to go through the process again
>in case what you have cloned isnt bootable. So I did this again.
>
>But still the drive wont boot. I went through the process again and
>still it wont boot.
>
>So I know that the old drive may be corrupted adn I suspect where the
>corruption may be (in folders like downloaded program files etc).where
>corruption crops up in chkdsk but in essence the old drive DOES boot
>so I suspect the problem isn't in the MBR or i nboot.ini.
>
>The problem is slightly better than it was after I had copies all
>files in linux and made it bootable in copy commander when I got the
>error message "cannot find operating system'. Now it bets out of the
>BIOS and looks on the drive and still doesnt see much, leaving me with
>a simple cursor at the top of the screen.
>
>Does this 'message' (actually clearly a lack of message) mean anything
>to anyone? Is it seeing the boot,ini and not getting the right
>information out of it? Or is it not seeing the master boot record? Or
>is the file allocation table wrong in some way? I cant find anywhere
>in the BIOS where the drive is actually identified but have tried
>loading defaults with the new drive in place: That should suffice
>shouldnt it?
If the new drive is formatted FAT32, you can't overwrite the boot
sector, since the geometry of the partition is contained in the boot
sector.
The following steps should result in a working clone:
1. Use MBRWizard 2.0b to read the disk signature of the parent disk;
write it down. <http://mbrwizard.com/download.php>
2. Perform a new Windows 2000 install (just the text phase of setup)
on the new disk, using Windows 2000 setup to partition and format the
drive. This will create a properly functioning MBR and boot sector on
the new drive. Abort setup when it wants to boot from the hard drive.
3. Use xxclone to copy the OS from the parent to new drive. Do not
copy the MBR or boot sector.
4. Use MBRWizard to write the disk signature recorded in step 1 to the
new disk.
5. The new drive should now boot.
> "something else used in the early boot phase which works
> well enough when booting the old drive, but which stops it
> copying to the new drive" Copying OR re-creating!!
Stops it being copied properly.
> This is exceptionally troubling, as you seem to imply there is no cure:
Thats overstating it. You should be able to do a clean Win2K
install to the new drive, then use xxcopy, not xxclone, to copy
the files from the old drive and that total should boot fine.
> This problem with early boot phase was why I was trying to get the windows
> 2000 install files onto a flash memory drive and make THAT bootable
Yeah but that adds another complication, booting a flash drive with 2K.
And there is no reason to believe that a flash drive would be any better than a new hard drive.
> and try to correct things with that but I couldnt get that
> solution to m did treat my drive as an HP one but still it
> wouldnt boot off it. I hope this isnt a hardware problem!
Thats unlikely given that it does still boot the old drive.
Assuming it still will boot the old drive, thats worth confirming.
> Infuriating as I suspect that all problems with the drive can be
> overcome except for these mysterious early boot phase files.
Yes, but they should be fixable with a clean install of Win 2K on the new drive.
That wouldnt even need to be done on the laptop, the system you are
using to copy from the old drive to the new drive should be fine for that.
Then use xxcopy to copy the non early boot files from
the old drive to the new drive and that should boot.
> Curiously enough I have often had the opposite problem
> with dying drives: They all usually go through that early
> boot phase and THEN wont let the system boot into the OS
Yeah, because its the other stuff thats got corrupted by the drive dying.
> Is there really nothing in UBCD4WIN which might fix those early boot phase files?
If they cant be copied by the two things you have tried copying them
with already, its unlikely that anything else off that will succeed.
Guess you could try either a forensic cloner or Spinrite. They try
a lot harder to copy files that cant be read error free the first time.
Not sure that Spinrite can be used for copying tho, so try a forensic cloner.
andy wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 18:34:42 -0800 (PST), DManzaluni
> <dmanzaluni@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> This is becoming really annoying: I have now used xxclone to clone
>> the drive. I watched after the copying of files was concluded and
>> saw it copying the boot.ini and the MBR and making it bootable. At
>> the end of the process xxclone recommends you to go through the
>> process again in case what you have cloned isnt bootable. So I did
>> this again.
>>
>> But still the drive wont boot. I went through the process again and
>> still it wont boot.
>>
>> So I know that the old drive may be corrupted adn I suspect where the
>> corruption may be (in folders like downloaded program files
>> etc).where corruption crops up in chkdsk but in essence the old
>> drive DOES boot so I suspect the problem isn't in the MBR or i
>> nboot.ini.
>>
>> The problem is slightly better than it was after I had copies all
>> files in linux and made it bootable in copy commander when I got the
>> error message "cannot find operating system'. Now it bets out of the
>> BIOS and looks on the drive and still doesnt see much, leaving me
>> with a simple cursor at the top of the screen.
>>
>> Does this 'message' (actually clearly a lack of message) mean
>> anything to anyone? Is it seeing the boot,ini and not getting the
>> right information out of it? Or is it not seeing the master boot
>> record? Or is the file allocation table wrong in some way? I cant
>> find anywhere in the BIOS where the drive is actually identified but
>> have tried loading defaults with the new drive in place: That should
>> suffice shouldnt it?
> If the new drive is formatted FAT32, you can't overwrite the boot sector,
> since the geometry of the partition is contained in the boot sector.
xxclone allows for that.
> The following steps should result in a working clone:
> 1. Use MBRWizard 2.0b to read the disk signature of the parent disk;
> write it down. <http://mbrwizard.com/download.php>
> 2. Perform a new Windows 2000 install (just the text phase of setup)
> on the new disk, using Windows 2000 setup to partition and format the
> drive. This will create a properly functioning MBR and boot sector on
> the new drive. Abort setup when it wants to boot from the hard drive.
> 3. Use xxclone to copy the OS from the parent to new drive. Do not
> copy the MBR or boot sector.
> 4. Use MBRWizard to write the disk signature recorded in step 1 to the
> new disk.
> 5. The new drive should now boot.
Re: Problem getting drive bootable 
Linear Mode
