A friend gave me a 5 1/4 inch floppy that she wants to retrieve some
data from.
It has a reinforcing ring around the center hole. That means it's low
density, right? 360KB per disk, right?
Another friend tells me that newer HD drives will not read LD disks**.
That I have to find a LD drive. Is that true?
(I don't remember this, but my friend is firm. If I'd known, I would
have saved one of the low density drives.)
Current attempts to read the disk with a high density drive have given
nothing but low-values, zeroes, including when using Norton Diskedit
(where I only read 12 clusters) and RESQFLPY, with which I copied the
entire floppy and got a file 368,640 bytes long. When I looked at the
copy on the hard drive, using Notepad+, it was entirely zeroes. I can
imagine that there is damage to the file, but I don't think it could
have been Wiped. I don't think anyone in my friend's house would know
how to wipe a disk even if they tried. Plus they wouldn't try.
**Of course low density drives didn't read HD disks, but I thought the
newer drives were backwards compatible. My friend is certain however.
??
Thanks.
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:14:35 -0400, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> put
finger to keyboard and composed:
>A friend gave me a 5 1/4 inch floppy that she wants to retrieve some
>data from.
>
>It has a reinforcing ring around the center hole. That means it's low
>density, right? 360KB per disk, right?
No, the only external difference is in the labeling, double density
(DD, 360KB) versus high density (HD, 1.2MB).
"Except for labelling, 5¼-inch high-density disks were externally
identical to their double-density counterparts."
>Another friend tells me that newer HD drives will not read LD disks**.
>That I have to find a LD drive. Is that true?
That's HD and DD, and it's not true. A HD drive will read DD
diskettes. The only problem is when a HD drive overwrites a DD
diskette that was written by a DD drive. This is because DD drives
have wider tracks, which in turn means that a HD drive will only be
able to erase the middle of the DD track, leaving its edges untouched.
When such a diskette is read by a DD drive, the unerased data at the
edges may result in read errors.
>(I don't remember this, but my friend is firm. If I'd known, I would
>have saved one of the low density drives.)
>Current attempts to read the disk with a high density drive have given
>nothing but low-values, zeroes, including when using Norton Diskedit
>(where I only read 12 clusters) and RESQFLPY, with which I copied the
>entire floppy and got a file 368,640 bytes long. When I looked at the
>copy on the hard drive, using Notepad+, it was entirely zeroes. I can
>imagine that there is damage to the file, but I don't think it could
>have been Wiped. I don't think anyone in my friend's house would know
>how to wipe a disk even if they tried. Plus they wouldn't try.
The documentation for RESQFLPY states that defective sectors are
identified during the "rescue" process. Were there any?
"RESQFLPY outputs a display to the screen during the copy operation.
Intact sectors will be indicated by "." and defective sectors will be
indicated by an "x". This display reveals the extent of the damage on
the disk."
>**Of course low density drives didn't read HD disks, but I thought the
>newer drives were backwards compatible. My friend is certain however.
>??
>
>Thanks.
>
>If you are inclined to email me
>for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
At a DOS prompt, try viewing the boot sector using Debug.exe as
follows (I'm assuming the floppy drive is A
On Jun 7, 6:27*am, Franc Zabkar <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:14:35 -0400, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> put
> finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >A friend gave me a 5 1/4 inch floppy that she wants to retrieve some
> >data from.
>
> >It has a reinforcing ring around the center hole. *That means it's low
> >density, right? *360KB per disk, right?
>
> No, the only external difference is in the labeling, double density
> (DD, 360KB) versus high density (HD, 1.2MB).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk
>
> See the paragraph that begins ...
>
> "Except for labelling, 5¼-inch high-density disks were externally
> identical to their double-density counterparts."
>
> >Another friend tells me that newer HD drives will not read LD disks**.
> >That I have to find a LD drive. * Is that true? *
>
> That's HD and DD, and it's not true. A HD drive will read DD
> diskettes. The only problem is when a HD drive overwrites a DD
> diskette that was written by a DD drive. This is because DD drives
> have wider tracks, which in turn means that a HD drive will only be
> able to erase the middle of the DD track, leaving its edges untouched.
> When such a diskette is read by a DD drive, the unerased data at the
> edges may result in read errors.
>
> >(I don't remember this, but my friend is firm. If I'd known, I would
> >have saved one of the low density drives.)
> >Current attempts to read the disk with a high density drive have given
> >nothing but low-values, zeroes, including when using Norton Diskedit
> >(where I only read 12 clusters) and RESQFLPY, with which I copied the
> >entire floppy and got a file 368,640 bytes long. *When I looked at the
> >copy on the hard drive, using Notepad+, it was entirely zeroes. *I can
> >imagine that there is damage to the file, but I don't think it could
> >have been Wiped. *I don't think anyone in my friend's house would know
> >how to wipe a disk even if they tried. *Plus they wouldn't try.
>
> The documentation for RESQFLPY states that defective sectors are
> identified during the "rescue" process. Were there any?
>
> "RESQFLPY outputs a display to the screen during the copy operation.
> Intact sectors will be indicated by "." and defective sectors will be
> indicated by an "x". This display reveals the extent of the damage on
> the disk."
>
> >**Of course low density drives didn't read HD disks, but I thought the
> >newer drives were backwards compatible. *My friend is certain however.
> >??
>
> >Thanks.
>
> >If you are inclined to email me
> >for some reason, remove NOPSAM *:-)
>
> At a DOS prompt, try viewing the boot sector using Debug.exe as
> follows (I'm assuming the floppy drive is A
>
> C:\>debug
> -L 100 0 0 1 * * * * (use L 100 1 0 1 for drive B
> -D 100 2FF
> 100 *EB 3C 90 2A 56 2B 7C 4C-49 48 43 00 02 01 01 00 *.<.*V+|LIHC.....
> 110 *02 E0 00 40 0B F0 09 00-12 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 *...@............
> 120 *00 00 00 00 00 00 29 74-23 EC 18 42 4F 4F 54 39 *......)t#..BOOT9
> 130 *38 53 43 20 20 20 46 41-54 31 32 20 20 20 33 C9 *8SC *FAT12 *3.
> ...
> 280 *18 01 27 0D 0A 49 6E 76-61 6C 69 64 20 73 79 73 *..'..Invalid sys
> 290 *74 65 6D 20 64 69 73 6B-FF 0D 0A 44 69 73 6B 20 *tem disk...Disk
> 2A0 *49 2F 4F 20 65 72 72 6F-72 FF 0D 0A 52 65 70 6C *I/O error...Repl
> 2B0 *61 63 65 20 74 68 65 20-64 69 73 6B 2C 20 61 6E *ace the disk, an
> 2C0 *64 20 74 68 65 6E 20 70-72 65 73 73 20 61 6E 79 *d then press any
> 2D0 *20 6B 65 79 0D 0A 00 00-49 4F 20 20 20 20 20 20 * key....IO
> 2E0 *53 59 53 4D 53 44 4F 53-20 20 20 53 59 53 7F 01 *SYSMSDOS *SYS...
> 2F0 *00 41 BB 00 07 60 66 6A-00 E9 3B FF 00 00 55 AA *.A...`fj..;...U.
> -Q
>
> The above example is for a 3.5" diskette.
>
> If DOS doesn't complain, then the diskette probably really has been
> zero-filled.
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
HD 5.25" drives were dual speed as the 1.2MB disks span at 360 rpm,
and not 300 rpm. They are also 96tpi rather than 48tpi. The HD 5.25"
disk emulates the DD 8" disk.
When I last 'played' with floppy disks some years ago I do remember
that some modern disk controllers did not handle all old densities.
It is possible you have an issue with the controller rather than the
physical drive.
With the correct controller, all HD drives will read DD disks
Previously mscotgrove@aol.com <mscotgrove@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jun 7, 6:27*am, Franc Zabkar <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
[...]
> HD 5.25" drives were dual speed as the 1.2MB disks span at 360 rpm,
> and not 300 rpm. They are also 96tpi rather than 48tpi. The HD 5.25"
> disk emulates the DD 8" disk.
> When I last 'played' with floppy disks some years ago I do remember
> that some modern disk controllers did not handle all old densities.
> It is possible you have an issue with the controller rather than the
> physical drive.
> With the correct controller, all HD drives will read DD disks
AFAIK the controller handles it. THe problem is that XP or Vista
does not. Read them with Linux.
On 7 Jun 2008 11:42:15 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>Previously mscotgrove@aol.com <mscotgrove@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 7, 6:27*am, Franc Zabkar <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
>[...]
>> HD 5.25" drives were dual speed as the 1.2MB disks span at 360 rpm,
>> and not 300 rpm. They are also 96tpi rather than 48tpi. The HD 5.25"
>> disk emulates the DD 8" disk.
>
>> When I last 'played' with floppy disks some years ago I do remember
>> that some modern disk controllers did not handle all old densities.
>> It is possible you have an issue with the controller rather than the
>> physical drive.
>
>> With the correct controller, all HD drives will read DD disks
Buried under a lot of stuff, I have an AT computer, but iirc it has
only a 5" drive. Is it worth it to dig it out?
>
>AFAIK the controller handles it. THe problem is that XP or Vista
>does not. Read them with Linux.
I have win98SE, but both RESQFLPY and Diskedit run under native DOS
anyhow.
Right now I'm using the DOS that came with win98SE. Would it be of any
value to use DOS 6 or something?
>
>Arno
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 15:27:04 +1000, Franc Zabkar
<fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:14:35 -0400, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> put
>finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>>A friend gave me a 5 1/4 inch floppy that she wants to retrieve some
>>data from.
>>
>>It has a reinforcing ring around the center hole. That means it's low
>>density, right? 360KB per disk, right?
>
>No, the only external difference is in the labeling, double density
>(DD, 360KB) versus high density (HD, 1.2MB).
In that case, I see no indication of whether it's HD or DD. Nor do I
on other floppies I have except that they are all in a box marked 1.2
meg.
I have more elsewhere, but in that box I've put some floppies that
were in IBM envelopes, and they all have the reinforcing ring in the
center. The others, no-name disks, don't have the ring. At the time
i thought the difference was DD versus HD.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk
>
>See the paragraph that begins ...
>
>"Except for labelling, 5¼-inch high-density disks were externally
>identical to their double-density counterparts."
>
>>Another friend tells me that newer HD drives will not read LD disks**.
>>That I have to find a LD drive. Is that true?
>
>That's HD and DD, and it's not true. A HD drive will read DD
>diskettes. The only problem is when a HD drive overwrites a DD
>diskette that was written by a DD drive. This is because DD drives
>have wider tracks, which in turn means that a HD drive will only be
>able to erase the middle of the DD track, leaving its edges untouched.
>When such a diskette is read by a DD drive, the unerased data at the
>edges may result in read errors.
>
>>(I don't remember this, but my friend is firm. If I'd known, I would
>>have saved one of the low density drives.)
>
>>Current attempts to read the disk with a high density drive have given
>>nothing but low-values, zeroes, including when using Norton Diskedit
>>(where I only read 12 clusters) and RESQFLPY, with which I copied the
>>entire floppy and got a file 368,640 bytes long. When I looked at the
>>copy on the hard drive, using Notepad+, it was entirely zeroes. I can
>>imagine that there is damage to the file, but I don't think it could
>>have been Wiped. I don't think anyone in my friend's house would know
>>how to wipe a disk even if they tried. Plus they wouldn't try.
>
>The documentation for RESQFLPY states that defective sectors are
>identified during the "rescue" process. Were there any?
Yes, it said that all 720 sectors were defective. That seems
unlikely, but not impossible, but it also tended to make me think my
drive was the problem.
>"RESQFLPY outputs a display to the screen during the copy operation.
>Intact sectors will be indicated by "." and defective sectors will be
>indicated by an "x". This display reveals the extent of the damage on
>the disk."
It didn't do any of that. There was a blue window that stayed empty,
and every 45 seconds or so, the line at the bottom would change from
"Sector 0 bad, 1 sector bad" to "Sector 1 bad, 2 sectors bad"
It took about 16 hours to go through the whole floppy. It would have
taken less time if it had found good sectors.
>>**Of course low density drives didn't read HD disks, but I thought the
>>newer drives were backwards compatible. My friend is certain however.
>>??
>>
>>Thanks.
>At a DOS prompt, try viewing the boot sector using Debug.exe as
>follows (I'm assuming the floppy drive is A
I've never used debug before, and I guess it's about time I learned.
>C:\>debug
>-L 100 0 0 1 (use L 100 1 0 1 for drive B
I get, "Not ready reading drive B.
Abort, Retry, Fail?
The advantage of RESQFLPY was that it doesn't abort if it comes across
a bad sector. It just goes to the next sector. However it thinks
every sector is bad and that doesn't seem likely.
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
Previously mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On 7 Jun 2008 11:42:15 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>Previously mscotgrove@aol.com <mscotgrove@aol.com> wrote:
>>> On Jun 7, 6:27*am, Franc Zabkar <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
>>[...]
>>> HD 5.25" drives were dual speed as the 1.2MB disks span at 360 rpm,
>>> and not 300 rpm. They are also 96tpi rather than 48tpi. The HD 5.25"
>>> disk emulates the DD 8" disk.
>>
>>> When I last 'played' with floppy disks some years ago I do remember
>>> that some modern disk controllers did not handle all old densities.
>>> It is possible you have an issue with the controller rather than the
>>> physical drive.
>>
>>> With the correct controller, all HD drives will read DD disks
> Buried under a lot of stuff, I have an AT computer, but iirc it has
> only a 5" drive. Is it worth it to dig it out?
>
As there are no 5" drives, I think that is exactly what you want.
Note that you can still attack that old floppy to any modern
mainboard that has a floppy controller.
>>AFAIK the controller handles it. THe problem is that XP or Vista
>>does not. Read them with Linux.
> I have win98SE, but both RESQFLPY and Diskedit run under native DOS
> anyhow.
That should do it.
> Right now I'm using the DOS that came with win98SE. Would it be of any
> value to use DOS 6 or something?
I think win98SE can handle the old formats. The DOS should be fine.
Just to be save, make the disks non-writable (black tape over the
side cutout), so to not do accidental damage.
Previously mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 15:27:04 +1000, Franc Zabkar
> <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
>>On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:14:35 -0400, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> put
>>finger to keyboard and composed:
>>
>>>A friend gave me a 5 1/4 inch floppy that she wants to retrieve some
>>>data from.
>>>
>>>It has a reinforcing ring around the center hole. That means it's low
>>>density, right? 360KB per disk, right?
>>
>>No, the only external difference is in the labeling, double density
>>(DD, 360KB) versus high density (HD, 1.2MB).
> In that case, I see no indication of whether it's HD or DD. Nor do I
> on other floppies I have except that they are all in a box marked 1.2
> meg.
> I have more elsewhere, but in that box I've put some floppies that
> were in IBM envelopes, and they all have the reinforcing ring in the
> center. The others, no-name disks, don't have the ring. At the time
> i thought the difference was DD versus HD.
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk
>>
>>See the paragraph that begins ...
>>
>>"Except for labelling, 5¼-inch high-density disks were externally
>>identical to their double-density counterparts."
>>
>>>Another friend tells me that newer HD drives will not read LD disks**.
>>>That I have to find a LD drive. Is that true?
>>
>>That's HD and DD, and it's not true. A HD drive will read DD
>>diskettes. The only problem is when a HD drive overwrites a DD
>>diskette that was written by a DD drive. This is because DD drives
>>have wider tracks, which in turn means that a HD drive will only be
>>able to erase the middle of the DD track, leaving its edges untouched.
>>When such a diskette is read by a DD drive, the unerased data at the
>>edges may result in read errors.
>>
>>>(I don't remember this, but my friend is firm. If I'd known, I would
>>>have saved one of the low density drives.)
>>
>>>Current attempts to read the disk with a high density drive have given
>>>nothing but low-values, zeroes, including when using Norton Diskedit
>>>(where I only read 12 clusters) and RESQFLPY, with which I copied the
>>>entire floppy and got a file 368,640 bytes long. When I looked at the
>>>copy on the hard drive, using Notepad+, it was entirely zeroes. I can
>>>imagine that there is damage to the file, but I don't think it could
>>>have been Wiped. I don't think anyone in my friend's house would know
>>>how to wipe a disk even if they tried. Plus they wouldn't try.
>>
>>The documentation for RESQFLPY states that defective sectors are
>>identified during the "rescue" process. Were there any?
> Yes, it said that all 720 sectors were defective. That seems
> unlikely, but not impossible, but it also tended to make me think my
> drive was the problem.
I dimly remember there was a tool called VGAcopy. It could be
set to do up to 99 retries for problematic sectors. Maybe give
it a try.
Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> Previously mscotgrove@aol.com <mscotgrove@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 7, 6:27 am, Franc Zabkar <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
>> [...] HD 5.25" drives were dual speed as the 1.2MB disks span at 360
>> rpm, and not 300 rpm. They are also 96tpi rather than 48tpi. The
>> HD 5.25" disk emulates the DD 8" disk.
>
>> When I last 'played' with floppy disks some years ago I do remember
>> that some modern disk controllers did not handle all old densities.
>> It is possible you have an issue with the controller rather than the
>> physical drive.
>
>> With the correct controller, all HD drives will read DD disks
>
> AFAIK the controller handles it.
In article <r1cl4496tvpluesvnbhdu15h1ir8t8evcf@4ax.com>, mm
<NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> writes
>In that case, I see no indication of whether it's HD or DD. Nor do I
>on other floppies I have except that they are all in a box marked 1.2
>meg.
The centre ring isn't a reliable guide, but you're right in that most DD
floppies have a ring and most HD floppies don't.
Another way to tell is to look at the colour of the actual disk surface
through the window in the envelope - DD ones look brownish, HD ones are
a dark grey.
How to play an old floppy disk. 
Linear Mode
