Previously John Turco <jtur@concentric.net> wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:
>>
>> Previously Mike Ruskai <BUTthannydI@dontearthlinklike.netspam> wrote:
>> > I need a PCI card with two independent IDE channels to drive two DVD drives.
>>
>> > And I emphasize *independent*, because I currently have a Sil 0680-based card
>> > with two IDE channels, but they are not independent. They are mutually
>> > speed-limiting.
>>
>> > For example, when ripping two DVDs, if one is only able to read at 3x, the
>> > other is also limited to 3x, even though alone it would be able to read at 5x.
>> > If one runs into a read error, and loops through a few retries, the other
>> > drive is paralyzed.
>>
>> > This also prevents both from burning reliably at the same time.
>>
>> > Just to be clear, both DVD drives are the master IDE devices on separate
>> > cables, connected to separate channels on the card.
>>
>> > So, anyone know of a card with truly independent channels?
>>
>> This sounds strange. Maybe your bottleneck is the driver instead?
>>
>> If not, I have made good experience with the Promise non-RAID
>> cards. With one drive on each channel, you can even do
>> softrware RAID on both drives without trouble.
>>
>> Arno
> Hello, Arno:
> Are you implying that DVD drives can be RAIDed, perhaps? <g>
Well, they can, but it does not make a whole lot of sense ;-)
Seriously, a software RAID1 load is massively slowed down when
both drives are on one IDE channel. With the Promise cards,
it is not when the two drives are on two channels. With this
my statement becomes relevant to the OP's question.
On or about Tue, 06 May 2008 12:11:47 -0400 did Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@yahoo.com>
dribble thusly:
>Anyways, regardless, I've also occasionally tried to write to two drives
>at the same time. It was a disaster for speed, though there were no
>media errors in the final product, so it was relatively reliable.
The trick is to either have a 8+ drive stripe, or use different spindles for
the two burns.
>>> How about getting a SATA DVD burner? All SATA drives are their own
>>> masters. DVD burners are cheaper than any external IDE controller solution.
>>
>> Last I looked, SATA ATAPI devices were problematic at best. And certainly
>> more expensive than an IDE controller, if I could find one that will work.
>
>Well, I haven't heard of any problems with SATA burners, but I won't
>doubt they may have had some in the past. You can pick up a SATA burner
>for between $20-25 on Ebay.
I've ordered an Asus SATA burner, so I'll see how that turns out.
On or about 9 May 2008 09:04:00 GMT did Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> dribble
thusly:
>Seriously, a software RAID1 load is massively slowed down when
>both drives are on one IDE channel. With the Promise cards,
>it is not when the two drives are on two channels. With this
>my statement becomes relevant to the OP's question.
Not necessarily. If the card is handling the RAID, then it's equivalent to
only one drive. The card may be easily able to read/write from/to both drives
independently, but it's only using the bus for one logical drive.
If you really want to know whether it's relevant to my original question
(independent DVD drive use), you'd have to confirm that a software RAID0 array
on the card works, since then both hard drives are transferring data on the
bus.
As it happens, the Promise cards have a reputation for not supporting ATAPI
properly, so it doesn't much matter whether the channels are truly
independant, as far as I'm concerned.
Previously Mike Ruskai <BUTthannydI@dontearthlinklike.netspam> wrote:
> On or about 9 May 2008 09:04:00 GMT did Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> dribble
> thusly:
>>Seriously, a software RAID1 load is massively slowed down when
>>both drives are on one IDE channel. With the Promise cards,
>>it is not when the two drives are on two channels. With this
>>my statement becomes relevant to the OP's question.
> Not necessarily. If the card is handling the RAID, then it's
> equivalent to only one drive. The card may be easily able to
> read/write from/to both drives independently, but it's only using
> the bus for one logical drive.
.... "software RAID" ...
> If you really want to know whether it's relevant to my original
> question (independent DVD drive use), you'd have to confirm that a
> software RAID0 array on the card works, since then both hard drives
> are transferring data on the bus.
> As it happens, the Promise cards have a reputation for not
> supporting ATAPI properly, so it doesn't much matter whether the
> channels are truly independant, as far as I'm concerned.
Some people claim that is a myth. I would'nt know.
On or about 10 May 2008 15:48:01 GMT did Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> dribble
thusly:
>Previously Mike Ruskai <BUTthannydI@dontearthlinklike.netspam> wrote:
>> On or about 9 May 2008 09:04:00 GMT did Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> dribble
>> thusly:
>
>>>Seriously, a software RAID1 load is massively slowed down when
>>>both drives are on one IDE channel. With the Promise cards,
>>>it is not when the two drives are on two channels. With this
>>>my statement becomes relevant to the OP's question.
>
>> Not necessarily. If the card is handling the RAID, then it's
>> equivalent to only one drive. The card may be easily able to
>> read/write from/to both drives independently, but it's only using
>> the bus for one logical drive.
>
>... "software RAID" ...
Ambiguous. Software RAID 1 on a single IDE channel, or some unspecified type
of RAID 1 on a RAID adapter. I saw it as a comparison between what's
available with and without said RAID adapter. Hence, "Not necessarily", as
opposed to "no, you're wrong, blah blah".
>> If you really want to know whether it's relevant to my original
>> question (independent DVD drive use), you'd have to confirm that a
>> software RAID0 array on the card works, since then both hard drives
>> are transferring data on the bus.
>
>> As it happens, the Promise cards have a reputation for not
>> supporting ATAPI properly, so it doesn't much matter whether the
>> channels are truly independant, as far as I'm concerned.
>
>Some people claim that is a myth. I would'nt know.
When several different people who have bought the card post about the same
kind of problem, I give it some weight. It may be that the card does in fact
share bus communication between the channels, so that someone using a hard
drive on one channel and a DVD burner on the other gets poor results when
trying to write to the latter from the former. Either way, if several people
complain about DVD drives not working, it's not exactly a good bet for me to
buy it for nothing but DVD drives.
In any case, I have since purchased an Asus DRW-2014L1T SATA drive, which so
far seems to be working just fine. I can't say I understand the label of
"20x" DVD write speed, when it never gets above 16x during a full disc write
(on Verbatim 16x DVD+R MCC media) . And strangely enough, it actually slows
down near the end, while all the other burners I've had speed up near the end,
when the linear speed of the media under the laser is at max.
But at least now I can use three drives at a time at full speed.
Previously Mike Ruskai <BUTthannydI@dontearthlinklike.netspam> wrote:
> On or about 10 May 2008 15:48:01 GMT did Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> dribble
> thusly:
>>Previously Mike Ruskai <BUTthannydI@dontearthlinklike.netspam> wrote:
>>> On or about 9 May 2008 09:04:00 GMT did Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> dribble
>>> thusly:
>>
>>>>Seriously, a software RAID1 load is massively slowed down when
>>>>both drives are on one IDE channel. With the Promise cards,
>>>>it is not when the two drives are on two channels. With this
>>>>my statement becomes relevant to the OP's question.
>>
>>> Not necessarily. If the card is handling the RAID, then it's
>>> equivalent to only one drive. The card may be easily able to
>>> read/write from/to both drives independently, but it's only using
>>> the bus for one logical drive.
>>
>>... "software RAID" ...
> Ambiguous. Software RAID 1 on a single IDE channel, or some unspecified type
> of RAID 1 on a RAID adapter. I saw it as a comparison between what's
> available with and without said RAID adapter. Hence, "Not necessarily", as
> opposed to "no, you're wrong, blah blah".
Since I never mentioned RAID adapters, what do you think
I meant?
>>> If you really want to know whether it's relevant to my original
>>> question (independent DVD drive use), you'd have to confirm that a
>>> software RAID0 array on the card works, since then both hard drives
>>> are transferring data on the bus.
>>
>>> As it happens, the Promise cards have a reputation for not
>>> supporting ATAPI properly, so it doesn't much matter whether the
>>> channels are truly independant, as far as I'm concerned.
>>
>>Some people claim that is a myth. I would'nt know.
> When several different people who have bought the card post about the same
> kind of problem, I give it some weight. It may be that the card does in fact
> share bus communication between the channels, so that someone using a hard
> drive on one channel and a DVD burner on the other gets poor results when
> trying to write to the latter from the former. Either way, if several people
> complain about DVD drives not working, it's not exactly a good bet for me to
> buy it for nothing but DVD drives.
> In any case, I have since purchased an Asus DRW-2014L1T SATA drive, which so
> far seems to be working just fine. I can't say I understand the label of
> "20x" DVD write speed, when it never gets above 16x during a full disc write
> (on Verbatim 16x DVD+R MCC media).
That is, I bleive, called design for marketing. There will be
one specific media it can do 20x with, but only the one....
> And strangely enough, it actually slows down near the end, while
> all the other burners I've had speed up near the end, when the
> linear speed of the media under the laser is at max.
Maybe it has problems with vibration. That is wors towards the end.
> But at least now I can use three drives at a time at full speed.
Re: Dual-channel PCI IDE card? 
Linear Mode
