kenk wrote:
> I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a
> split-second power outage. Despite the fact that my battery shows all 5
> lights lit, the computer died.
There might be several problems which can be the reason of that behaviour.
> Is there a better brand to use than APC? Can the battery be sub-par
> even though the test lights say it is OK? What have others of you chosen?
APC is OK brand. I would not call it the best, and also, you probably
have line-interactive UPS. The problem is that such a UPS can not
eliminate all of the problems, and also, some power supplies are not
working well with that king of UPS (I've heard about problems with
certain Chieftek PSs).
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7jp3olF36omctU1@mid.individual.net...
> Ian D wrote
>> kenk <kenk@nowhere.com> wrote
>
>>> I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a
>>> split-second power outage. Despite the fact that my battery shows all 5
>>> lights lit, the computer died.
>
>>> Is there a better brand to use than APC? Can the battery be sub-par
>>> even though the test lights say it is OK? What have others of you
>>> chosen?
>
>> I would be looking at your PC's power supply. There is a very
>> brief delay between the loss of power, and the UPS switchover
>> to battery power.
>
> Not with continuous UPSs, there is no delay at all with those.
>
> Essentially the PC is running off the UPS output all the time and
> the only thing that changes with the mains failure is that the UPS
> isnt being charged anymore and runs off the battery instead.
>
That's correct, and those units are the ones with true sine
wave output, and are relatively expensive. I was assuming
that the OP was using a regular, run of the mill APC UPS.
>> The PC power supply should hold during
>> this period. Before I had a UPS, a split-second power outage
>> would cause clocks to lose their time, etc., sometimes, even
>> my monitor would blink, but the computer would hold without
>> a glitch. If you want to test your UPS, pull the power cord with
>> a load on the UPS.
>
>
On Oct 15, 12:41*am, Mike Ruskai
<BUTthann...@DONTearthlinkLIKE.netSPAM> wrote:
> You probably bought cheap, undersized units, which is why you've come to your
> erroneous conclusion.
Is not being able to hold a charge after only one year considered
junky enough? I bought a power supply appropriate for a home
environment, if I could afford to build a computer room with an AC/UPS
with alarm monitoring system in it, I would've done so, but not within
my budget, nor most people's budgets.
Ian D wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Ian D wrote
>>> kenk <kenk@nowhere.com> wrote
>>>> I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a
>>>> split-second power outage. Despite the fact that my battery shows
>>>> all 5 lights lit, the computer died.
>>>> Is there a better brand to use than APC? Can the battery be
>>>> sub-par even though the test lights say it is OK? What have
>>>> others of you chosen?
>>> I would be looking at your PC's power supply. There is a very
>>> brief delay between the loss of power, and the UPS switchover
>>> to battery power.
>> Not with continuous UPSs, there is no delay at all with those.
>> Essentially the PC is running off the UPS output all the time and
>> the only thing that changes with the mains failure is that the UPS
>> isnt being charged anymore and runs off the battery instead.
> That's correct, and those units are the ones with true sine wave output,
Nope, the type of output is an entirely separate issue.
> and are relatively expensive.
Not anymore with continuous or online UPSs.
> I was assuming that the OP was using a regular, run of the mill APC UPS.
There's plenty of continuous/online consumer grade UPSs now.
>>> The PC power supply should hold during
>>> this period. Before I had a UPS, a split-second power outage
>>> would cause clocks to lose their time, etc., sometimes, even
>>> my monitor would blink, but the computer would hold without
>>> a glitch. If you want to test your UPS, pull the power cord with
>>> a load on the UPS.
Rod Speed wrote:
> Ian D wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Ian D wrote
>>>> kenk <kenk@nowhere.com> wrote
>
>>>>> I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a
>>>>> split-second power outage. Despite the fact that my battery shows
>>>>> all 5 lights lit, the computer died.
>
>>>>> Is there a better brand to use than APC? Can the battery be
>>>>> sub-par even though the test lights say it is OK? What have
>>>>> others of you chosen?
>
>>>> I would be looking at your PC's power supply. There is a very
>>>> brief delay between the loss of power, and the UPS switchover
>>>> to battery power.
>
>>> Not with continuous UPSs, there is no delay at all with those.
>
>>> Essentially the PC is running off the UPS output all the time and
>>> the only thing that changes with the mains failure is that the UPS
>>> isnt being charged anymore and runs off the battery instead.
>
>> That's correct, and those units are the ones with true sine wave output,
>
> Nope, the type of output is an entirely separate issue.
>
Both types of UPS generate roughly sine wave outputs when the inverter
is active. The difference is that with a standby UPS, the inverter is
not active unless the power fails, so the output is just a filtered
version of the input.
>> and are relatively expensive.
>
> Not anymore with continuous or online UPSs.
>
Online or continuous UPSs are more expensive than standby UPS for the
same ratings. Judging by a quick check on APC's website, the difference
is something like 25% more expensive for "Smart UPS online" compared to
"Smart UPS" (standby).
Additionally, smaller and cheaper UPSs are mostly standby types, while
online ones are for more professional markets. If you are wanting
something that can give you 10 minutes at 300W, standby UPSs will be
half the price.
Online UPSs are also less efficient for smaller systems - the double
conversion wastes at least 10% of your electricity.
That doesn't mean that standby UPSs are a better choice for a small user
- just that there are different balances to consider and the price
difference (though less than it used to be) is significant.
>> I was assuming that the OP was using a regular, run of the mill APC UPS.
>
> There's plenty of continuous/online consumer grade UPSs now.
>
>>>> The PC power supply should hold during
>>>> this period. Before I had a UPS, a split-second power outage
>>>> would cause clocks to lose their time, etc., sometimes, even
>>>> my monitor would blink, but the computer would hold without
>>>> a glitch. If you want to test your UPS, pull the power cord with
>>>> a load on the UPS.
>
>
> Is not being able to hold a charge after only one year considered
> junky enough? I bought a power supply appropriate for a home
> environment,
Most are sealed lead acid batteries, much like a vehicle
battery, and vehicle batteries generally have around a
3 year life.
Vehicles and UPS continuously float charge, and an
UPS is generally on, which is rather longer than in
vehicle useage, other than public transport which uses
heavy duty batteries most vehicles aren't driven
continuously throughout the day.
The operating conditions of UPS batteries can
rapidly deplete residual capacity.
Main benefit of UPS is during a brown out,
when flashing BIOS, and while MS$ is updating
and the PC says installing 27 updates, don't
switch off.
David Brown wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Ian D wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Ian D wrote
>>>>> kenk <kenk@nowhere.com> wrote
>>>>>> I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a split-second power outage. Despite the fact
>>>>>> that my battery shows all 5 lights lit, the computer died.
>>>>>> Is there a better brand to use than APC? Can the battery be
>>>>>> sub-par even though the test lights say it is OK? What have
>>>>>> others of you chosen?
>>>>> I would be looking at your PC's power supply. There is a very
>>>>> brief delay between the loss of power, and the UPS switchover
>>>>> to battery power.
>>>> Not with continuous UPSs, there is no delay at all with those.
>>>> Essentially the PC is running off the UPS output all the time and
>>>> the only thing that changes with the mains failure is that the UPS
>>>> isnt being charged anymore and runs off the battery instead.
>>> That's correct, and those units are the ones with true sine wave output,
>> Nope, the type of output is an entirely separate issue.
> Both types of UPS generate roughly sine wave outputs when the inverter is active.
Pity he was clearly talking about TRUE sine wave output, which only
a small subset of UPSs produce. And it aint even the continuous/online
UPSs that mostly do produce TRUE sine wave output.
> The difference is that with a standby UPS, the inverter is not active unless the power fails, so the output is just a
> filtered version of the input.
Thats an entirely separate matter to TRUE sine wave output.
>>> and are relatively expensive.
>> Not anymore with continuous or online UPSs.
> Online or continuous UPSs are more expensive than standby UPS for the same ratings.
In theory that is correct. In practice there isnt a
lot in it with the brand name domestic UPSs now.
> Judging by a quick check on APC's website, the difference is something like 25% more expensive for "Smart UPS
> online" compared to "Smart UPS" (standby).
Thats not very much.
> Additionally, smaller and cheaper UPSs are mostly standby types, while online ones are for more professional markets.
Thats overstating it, particularly with the stuff out of china.
> If you are wanting something that can give you 10 minutes at 300W, standby UPSs will be half the price.
Wrong.
> Online UPSs are also less efficient for smaller systems - the double conversion wastes at least 10% of your
> electricity.
Utterly mangled all over again.
And if you do care about that, you can also get replacement power supplys
that avoid the double conversion and still have the UPS functionality.
> That doesn't mean that standby UPSs are a better choice for a small user - just that there are different balances to
> consider and the price difference (though less than it used to be) is significant.
Not anymore.
>>> I was assuming that the OP was using a regular, run of the mill APC UPS.
>> There's plenty of continuous/online consumer grade UPSs now.
>>>>> The PC power supply should hold during
>>>>> this period. Before I had a UPS, a split-second power outage
>>>>> would cause clocks to lose their time, etc., sometimes, even
>>>>> my monitor would blink, but the computer would hold without
>>>>> a glitch. If you want to test your UPS, pull the power cord with
>>>>> a load on the UPS.
Ato_Zee wrote:
> On 15-Oct-2009, bbbl67 <yjkhan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is not being able to hold a charge after only one year considered
>> junky enough? I bought a power supply appropriate for a home
>> environment,
>
> Most are sealed lead acid batteries, much like a vehicle
> battery, and vehicle batteries generally have around a
> 3 year life.
Thats because of the deep cycling car batterys get, particularly in winter.
You get a lot longer than that with telephone exchanges etc.
> Vehicles and UPS continuously float charge, and an
> UPS is generally on, which is rather longer than in
> vehicle useage, other than public transport which uses
> heavy duty batteries most vehicles aren't driven
> continuously throughout the day.
But a UPS battery gets cycled a lot less than car batterys do.
> The operating conditions of UPS batteries
> can rapidly deplete residual capacity.
Yes, particularly with a poor charger that produces sulphation.
> Main benefit of UPS is during a brown out, when
> flashing BIOS, and while MS$ is updating and
> the PC says installing 27 updates, don't switch off.
And they do allow a graceful shutdown on mains failure too.
On or about Thu, 15 Oct 2009 13:07:30 -0700 (PDT) did bbbl67
<yjkhan@gmail.com> dribble thusly:
>On Oct 15, 12:41*am, Mike Ruskai
><BUTthann...@DONTearthlinkLIKE.netSPAM> wrote:
>> You probably bought cheap, undersized units, which is why you've come to your
>> erroneous conclusion.
>
>Is not being able to hold a charge after only one year considered
>junky enough? I bought a power supply appropriate for a home
>environment, if I could afford to build a computer room with an AC/UPS
>with alarm monitoring system in it, I would've done so, but not within
>my budget, nor most people's budgets.
If it couldn't hold a charge after only one year, you spent next to nothing
and got even less.
Three years is a typical battery replacement interval (if you can't replace
the battery, that's another sign you bought junk). You can get suitable UPS
units at a typical office store with replaceable batteries, sizable to your
computer's needs, for less than $200 (less than $100 if your required capacity
is low enough).
If you insist that your claim about UPS's being junk is not ridiculous, then
provide some model numbers or brands/capacities that you've tried. Even the
very inexpensive 1100VA Belkin unit I started with several years back worked
better than you describe.
>I was sitting at my desk yesterday during a storm when there was a
>split-second power outage. Despite the fact that my battery shows all 5
>lights lit, the computer died.
What happens when you pull the wall plug on the UPS?
Does the machine die or not?
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Re: Battery backup: problem with my APC? 
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