Am I understanding correctly that these terms are basically the same? If
so, then why did my client's updated Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk (/r /f
parameters and rebooted to run it) on a HDD (NTFS) in an old Dell
Optiplex system say there was a bad cluster and was able to move a file
to a better place, but I rerun chkdsk in Windows 2000 and ran a chkdsk
(no parameters) and it found 0 KB of bad sector?
Thank you in advance.
--
"I used to own an ant farm but had to give it up. I couldn't find
tractors small enough to fit it." --Steven Wright
/\___/\
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> Am I understanding correctly that these terms are basically the same?
Nope. Sectors are what the physical drive has.
Clusters are an OS level concept, a cluster is more than one sector.
> If so, then why did my client's updated Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk (/r
> /f parameters and rebooted to run it) on a HDD (NTFS) in an old Dell
> Optiplex system say there was a bad cluster and was able to move a
> file to a better place, but I rerun chkdsk in Windows 2000 and ran a
> chkdsk (no parameters) and it found 0 KB of bad sector?
Because that stuff also has the drive itself doing reallocation of bad sectors behind its back.
>> Am I understanding correctly that these terms are basically the same?
>
> Nope. Sectors are what the physical drive has.
>
> Clusters are an OS level concept, a cluster is more than one sector.
>
>> If so, then why did my client's updated Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk (/r
>> /f parameters and rebooted to run it) on a HDD (NTFS) in an old Dell
>> Optiplex system say there was a bad cluster and was able to move a
>> file to a better place, but I rerun chkdsk in Windows 2000 and ran a
>> chkdsk (no parameters) and it found 0 KB of bad sector?
>
> Because that stuff also has the drive itself doing reallocation of bad sectors behind its back.
So shouldn't Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk be marking bad sector then? I am
confused.
I ran the latest Windows smartctl's full test to be sure before chkdsks
and saw:
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 8 family
Device Model: Maxtor 6E040L0
Serial Number: E155KPHE
Firmware Version: NAR61590
User Capacity: 41,110,142,976 bytes
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 7
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is: Sun Oct 04 14:10:05 2009 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
Enabled status cached by OS, trying SMART RETURN
STATUS cmd.
SMART support is: Enabled
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity
was completed without error.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine
completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: (1021) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
No General Purpose Logging support.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 17) minutes.
SMART Error Log Version: 1
Warning: ATA error count 17 inconsistent with error log pointer 5
ATA Error Count: 17 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.
Error 17 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 3871 hours (161 days + 7 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 06 67 a2 68 e2 Error: UNC 6 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a267 = 40411751
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 22 67 a2 68 e2 00 04:55:32.656 READ DMA
c8 00 80 81 02 ab e1 00 04:55:32.656 READ DMA
c8 00 08 09 02 ab e1 00 04:55:32.640 READ DMA
c8 00 1e 13 ee 30 e1 00 04:55:32.640 READ DMA
c8 00 08 c5 a3 11 e1 00 04:55:32.624 READ DMA
Error 16 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1858 hours (77 days + 10 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 62 db a5 68 e2 Error: UNC 98 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a5db =
40412635
Error 15 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1455 hours (60 days + 15 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 05 a8 fb 13 e0 Error: UNC 5 sectors at LBA = 0x0013fba8 = 1309608
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 08 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:55.104 READ DMA
ca 00 08 3c f4 64 e2 00 01:04:55.104 WRITE DMA
c8 00 80 d0 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:55.104 READ DMA
c8 00 08 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:53.968 READ DMA
ca 00 80 03 de 72 e2 00 01:04:53.968 WRITE DMA
Error 14 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1455 hours (60 days + 15 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
01 51 05 a8 fb 13 e0 Error: AMNF 5 sectors at LBA = 0x0013fba8 = 1309608
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 08 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:53.968 READ DMA
ca 00 80 03 de 72 e2 00 01:04:53.968 WRITE DMA
ca 00 80 4b e2 70 e2 00 01:04:53.968 WRITE DMA
ca 00 08 2c f4 64 e2 00 01:04:53.968 WRITE DMA
c8 00 20 b0 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:53.968 READ DMA
Error 13 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1455 hours (60 days + 15 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
01 51 05 a8 fb 13 e0 Error: AMNF 5 sectors at LBA = 0x0013fba8 = 1309608
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 08 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:03:47.296 READ DMA
ca 00 08 44 f4 64 e2 00 01:03:47.280 WRITE DMA
c8 00 28 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:03:46.192 READ DMA
c8 00 08 a0 fb 13 e0 00 01:03:46.192 READ DMA
ca 00 08 2c 16 02 e0 00 01:03:46.160 WRITE DMA
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining
LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Short offline Completed without error 00% 0
-
SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
1 0 0 Not_testing
2 0 0 Not_testing
3 0 0 Not_testing
4 0 0 Not_testing
5 0 0 Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.
The reason why I ran them because I saw this earlier today:
Event Type: Error
Event Source: Disk
Event Category: None
Event ID: 7
Date: 10/3/2009
Time: 11:42:47 AM
User: N/A
Computer: DELLOPTIPLEX
Description:
The device, \Device\Harddisk0\DR0, has a bad block.
Data:
0000: 03 00 18 00 01 00 72 00 ......r.
0008: 00 00 00 00 07 00 04 c0 .......À
0010: 00 01 00 00 9c 00 00 c0 ....œ..À
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0020: 00 ce 44 d1 04 00 00 00 .ÎDÑ....
0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0030: 00 00 00 00 28 00 00 00 ....(...
0038: 02 84 00 00 00 00 03 00 .„......
SMART results look bad for those errors. SMART said passed when I did a
quick check. I wonder if that is why Windows was feeling sluggish lately.
--
"The life of an ant and that of my child should be granted equal
consideration." --Michael W. Fox, Vice President, The Human Society of
the United States, The Inhumane Society, New York, 1990.
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
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Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
>>> Am I understanding correctly that these terms are basically the same?
>> Nope. Sectors are what the physical drive has.
>> Clusters are an OS level concept, a cluster is more than one sector.
>>> If so, then why did my client's updated Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk
>>> (/r /f parameters and rebooted to run it) on a HDD (NTFS) in an old
>>> Dell Optiplex system say there was a bad cluster and was able to
>>> move a file to a better place, but I rerun chkdsk in Windows 2000
>>> and ran a chkdsk (no parameters) and it found 0 KB of bad sector?
>> Because that stuff also has the drive itself doing reallocation of bad sectors behind its back.
> So shouldn't Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk be marking bad sector then?
No, because it deals with clusters, not sectors.
> I am confused.
You are indeed.
> I ran the latest Windows smartctl's full test to be sure before chkdsks and saw:
> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 8 family
> Device Model: Maxtor 6E040L0
> Serial Number: E155KPHE
> Firmware Version: NAR61590
> User Capacity: 41,110,142,976 bytes
> Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is: 7
> ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
> Local Time is: Sun Oct 04 14:10:05 2009 PDT
> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> Enabled status cached by OS, trying SMART RETURN
> STATUS cmd.
> SMART support is: Enabled
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
> General SMART Values:
> Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection
> activity was completed without error.
> Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
> Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine
> completed
> without error or no self-test has ever
> been run.
> Total time to complete Offline
> data collection: (1021) seconds.
> Offline data collection
> capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
> Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
> Suspend Offline collection upon new
> command.
> Offline surface scan supported.
> Self-test supported.
> No Conveyance Self-test supported.
> Selective Self-test supported.
> SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before
> entering power-saving mode.
> Supports SMART auto save timer.
> Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
> No General Purpose Logging support.
> Short self-test routine
> recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
> Extended self-test routine
> recommended polling time: ( 17) minutes.
>
> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
> UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
> 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 227 221 063 Pre-fail
> Always - 5662
> 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age
> Always - 1252
> 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 252 252 063 Pre-fail
> Always - 9
>> SMART results look bad for those errors.
>
> Particularly the reallocated sectors.
>
>> SMART said passed when I did a quick check.
>
> I ignore that stuff and concentrate on the raw values.
Hence, the quickie.
>> I wonder if that is why Windows was feeling sluggish lately.
>
> Likely retrying on the pending sectors.
Does that mean a dying HDD and needs to replace right away? Here's the
updated SMART results after I did two chkdsks and a smartctl full test
request:
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 8 family
Device Model: Maxtor 6E040L0
Serial Number: E155KPHE
Firmware Version: NAR61590
User Capacity: 41,110,142,976 bytes
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 7
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is: Sun Oct 04 16:43:43 2009 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
Enabled status cached by OS, trying SMART RETURN
STATUS cmd.
SMART support is: Enabled
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity
was completed without error.
Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 116) The previous self-test completed
having
the read element of the test failed.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: (1021) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
No General Purpose Logging support.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 17) minutes.
SMART Error Log Version: 1
Warning: ATA error count 19 inconsistent with error log pointer 5
ATA Error Count: 19 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.
Error 19 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 3881 hours (161 days + 17
hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 01 83 a2 68 e2 Error: UNC 1 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a283 = 40411779
Error 18 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 3881 hours (161 days + 17
hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 06 67 a2 68 e2 Error: UNC 6 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a267 = 40411751
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 22 67 a2 68 e2 00 02:14:09.264 READ DMA
c8 00 1e 13 ee 30 e1 00 02:14:09.248 READ DMA
c8 00 1f f1 15 30 e1 00 02:14:09.248 READ DMA
c8 00 1e 2f a8 27 e1 00 02:14:09.232 READ DMA
c8 00 1f da e7 23 e1 00 02:14:09.232 READ DMA
Error 17 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 3871 hours (161 days + 7 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 06 67 a2 68 e2 Error: UNC 6 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a267 = 40411751
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 22 67 a2 68 e2 00 04:55:32.656 READ DMA
c8 00 80 81 02 ab e1 00 04:55:32.656 READ DMA
c8 00 08 09 02 ab e1 00 04:55:32.640 READ DMA
c8 00 1e 13 ee 30 e1 00 04:55:32.640 READ DMA
c8 00 08 c5 a3 11 e1 00 04:55:32.624 READ DMA
Error 16 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1858 hours (77 days + 10 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 62 db a5 68 e2 Error: UNC 98 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a5db =
40412635
Error 15 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 1455 hours (60 days + 15 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was in an
unknown state.
After command completion occurred, registers were:
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 05 a8 fb 13 e0 Error: UNC 5 sectors at LBA = 0x0013fba8 = 1309608
Commands leading to the command that caused the error were:
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c8 00 08 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:55.104 READ DMA
ca 00 08 3c f4 64 e2 00 01:04:55.104 WRITE DMA
c8 00 80 d0 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:55.104 READ DMA
c8 00 08 a8 fb 13 e0 00 01:04:53.968 READ DMA
ca 00 80 03 de 72 e2 00 01:04:53.968 WRITE DMA
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining
LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Extended offline Completed: read failure 40% 3882
49793
# 2 Extended offline Interrupted (host reset) 70% 3881
-
# 3 Short offline Completed without error 00% 0
-
SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
1 0 0 Not_testing
2 0 0 Not_testing
3 0 0 Not_testing
4 0 0 Not_testing
5 0 0 Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.
I am currently backing up my client's important datas right now to my
USB external HDD since it appears to be dying from what the results and
you're saying (not surprised from an old PC and HDD).
--
"The foreign policy aim of ants can be summed up as follows: restless
aggression, territorial conquest, and genocidal annihilation of
neighboring colonies whenever possible. If ants had nuclear weapons,
they would probably end the world in a week." --Journey to the Ants,
page 59. Bert Holldobler & Edward O. Wilson
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
> After command completion occurred, registers were:
> ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
> -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> 40 51 01 83 a2 68 e2 Error: UNC 1 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a283 = 40411779
> After command completion occurred, registers were:
> ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
> -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> 40 51 06 67 a2 68 e2 Error: UNC 6 sectors at LBA = 0x0268a267 = 40411751
I'd identify the file(s) that occupies sector # 40411779 and sectors
40411751 through 40411757. You can then delete the file and replace it
with a backup copy. This should free up those sectors/clusters
occupied by the file. The next time Windows tries to write to the bad
sectors, the drive will retest them and then most likely remap them.
If you don't have a backup, then you can try to recover as much of the
file as possible using Bad Block Copy (see below).
The Win2K OEM support tools contain a utility named nfi.exe which
identifies the file that occupies a particular sector:
"Copies file ignoring Bad Blocks. If target file doesn't exist,
instead of unread blocks, ZEROs are written. If target file exists,
its blocks, corresponding to Bad Blocks in source are not touched.
Thus, if you have some copies of the same file with Bad Blocks in
different places, it is possible to completely restore the original
file. To do this you should run bbcopy.exe with same target, but
different sources."
You can also fill unreadable parts with '** BAD BLOCK ***.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
>> I ignore that stuff and concentrate on the raw values.
> Hence, the quickie.
That was a comment on your 'said passed'
>>> I wonder if that is why Windows was feeling sluggish lately.
>> Likely retrying on the pending sectors.
> Does that mean a dying HDD
The number of reallocated and pending is getting up quite high.
> and needs to replace right away?
I would, since its a Maxtor. They can go pear
shaped very quickly once they start to die.
> Here's the updated SMART results after I did two chkdsks and a smartctl full test request:
> smartctl version 5.38 [i686-mingw32-2000-sp4] Copyright (C) 2002-8
> Bruce Allen
> Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/
>
> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 8 family
> Device Model: Maxtor 6E040L0
> Serial Number: E155KPHE
> Firmware Version: NAR61590
> User Capacity: 41,110,142,976 bytes
> Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is: 7
> ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
> Local Time is: Sun Oct 04 16:43:43 2009 PDT
> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> Enabled status cached by OS, trying SMART RETURN
> STATUS cmd.
> SMART support is: Enabled
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
>
> General SMART Values:
> Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection
> activity was completed without error.
> Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
> Self-test execution status: ( 116) The previous self-test
> completed having
> the read element of the test failed.
> Total time to complete Offline
> data collection: (1021) seconds.
> Offline data collection
> capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
> Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
> Suspend Offline collection upon new
> command.
> Offline surface scan supported.
> Self-test supported.
> No Conveyance Self-test supported.
> Selective Self-test supported.
> SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before
> entering power-saving mode.
> Supports SMART auto save timer.
> Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
> No General Purpose Logging support.
> Short self-test routine
> recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
> Extended self-test routine
> recommended polling time: ( 17) minutes.
>
> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
> UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
> 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 227 221 063 Pre-fail
> Always - 5662
> 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age
> Always - 1252
> 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 252 252 063 Pre-fail
> Always - 9
> Am I understanding correctly that these terms are basically the same?
They are not. Sector are the storage unit of the
underlying storage device, while clusters are the Microsoft
filesystem block sizes. Clusters are typically
a multiple of the sector size (512 Bytes for HDDs and 2048
Bytes for some optical media).
> If
> so, then why did my client's updated Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk (/r /f
> parameters and rebooted to run it) on a HDD (NTFS) in an old Dell
> Optiplex system say there was a bad cluster and was able to move a file
> to a better place, but I rerun chkdsk in Windows 2000 and ran a chkdsk
> (no parameters) and it found 0 KB of bad sector?
Well, a bad cluster is usually a cluster marked bad in the
filesystem This is a leftover artefact from the time when
HDDs diod expose their bad areas to the OS. Typically a
cluster gets marked bad if one or more sectors in it
experience a read error.
A HDD only marks a sector as bad when it cannot by extended
effoprt read that sector. However it will still try to read
it on a new request from the OS and it will not export that
marking to the OS, except in the SMART selftest log and there
only for the first found one. What the marking by the HDD is
for is to allow it to reallocated (replace with a good one)
the sector on a write.
So sectors is on the hardware and the low-level drivesr,
while clusters is in the (abstract) filesystem layer.
>> I am currently backing up my client's important datas right now to my USB external HDD since it appears to be dying
>
> Yes, thats what you should be doing.
>
>> from what the results and you're saying (not surprised from an old PC and HDD).
>
> Whoops, just noticed its a Maxtor. You into necrophilia ?
I didn't buy and install the HDD. Someone else did and it's old since it
came with Windows 2000 SP4, Novell, Epoocrates, an internal zip drive, a
CD-RW burner drive, etc. Sheesh! I am just diagnosing the issues (good
thing Windows 2000 SP4's event log said something about the HDD) and
backing up for my client.
--
"He who storms in like a whirlwind returns like an ant." --Borneo
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
> So sectors is on the hardware and the low-level drivesr,
> while clusters is in the (abstract) filesystem layer.
Thanks! That makes more sense to me now. I did notice the updated
Windows 2000 SP4's chkdsk /r /f said it found a bad cluster (think it
was TIF file but can't remember and didn't watch the long chkdsk --
wished it had logging feature or paused to tell me the results before
going back to Windows) and fixed it (moved it). Then, I did a normal
chkdsk.exe in Windows 2000 session's cmd.exe but it didn't show any bad
sectors (0 KB). I was confused there.
--
"What do ants and bees use for cattle?" --Tom
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
( ) or ANTant@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
Bad Clusters vs. Bad Sectors 
Linear Mode
