Deskew and photos on a document scanner

Hi all,

I am looking for a documentscanner to archive many documents. Some of these are regular
lettersize, others are thin paper @ 1/3rd letter size, abt 10.000 are indexcard sized
cardstock(thick paper), color handwritten and printed pictures which all have just a bit
different size - no two are the same. Many documents have information on both sides
sometimes with stickers pasted on them.

All this makes for a wide range of documents to process with challenges to get the quality
somewhat right. I started archiving using my trusty old HP 5370 with Vuescan which works
well as long as I am careful in how I put the pages but it is way to slow in getting
everything scanned and filed during my lifetime without giving up living a life. So now
that documentscanners have reached a reasonable pricepoint I am considering purchasing one
and archiving more so the original documents can be boxed and stored away from
prime-space. After searching various sites and reviews I had decided to check into the
Kodak I-1220 duplex scanner over the Canon DR-2580 and the Fujitsu FI-5120 because of the
praised feeder, image quality and ability to scan plastic cards.

I tested one (on the cardstock, different sizes) but found that the ADF did not pull all
documents straight through. The deskew option could straighten this up though, however it
cut off parts of the top/bottom images - or maybe those parts were never scanned. I am
not quite sure why and the store did not have a good explanation. I assume this is
because the scanner only scans when the paperrollers detect paper. Because the
paperrollers are "somewhat" in the middle of the scanner when paper is skewed a corner of
the paper would already be past the roller and at the end the final corner would not be
scanned yet (hopefully you understand what I mean here). The result is that sometimes the
corners of documents are not in the scanned image. These corners do however hold part of
the information needed. I was truly disappointed by what I saw or maybe my expectations
were too high and this is the state of current technology...

Now my questions:
Is this phenomenon a driver issue which can be corrected - if so how? - or is this a
hardware issue which cannot be corrected?
Do all ADF document scanners in this pricerange have this problem or are the Canon or
Fujitsu better in this regard?
Are there any other scanners which don't have this problem - they need to be able to scan
thick postcards?
Do (affordable) flatbed scanners exist with a duplex option (without ADF) with enough
scanning speed?
Is there some forum besides the newsgroup where these questions would be more appropriate?

Thanks in advance for reading this, sharing your thoughts and answering my questions!

Joe.

Joe <none@nowhere> wrote in
news1ddr3pe1p6gl51f1hfgft92nv9avrlmat@4ax.com:

> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for a documentscanner to archive many documents. Some
> of these are regular lettersize, others are thin paper @ 1/3rd letter
> size, abt 10.000 are indexcard sized cardstock(thick paper), color
> handwritten and printed pictures which all have just a bit different
> size - no two are the same. Many documents have information on both
> sides sometimes with stickers pasted on them.
>
> All this makes for a wide range of documents to process with
> challenges to get the quality somewhat right. I started archiving
> using my trusty old HP 5370 with Vuescan which works well as long as I
> am careful in how I put the pages but it is way to slow in getting
> everything scanned and filed during my lifetime without giving up
> living a life. So now that documentscanners have reached a reasonable
> pricepoint I am considering purchasing one and archiving more so the
> original documents can be boxed and stored away from prime-space.
> After searching various sites and reviews I had decided to check into
> the Kodak I-1220 duplex scanner over the Canon DR-2580 and the Fujitsu
> FI-5120 because of the praised feeder, image quality and ability to
> scan plastic cards.
>
> I tested one (on the cardstock, different sizes) but found that the
> ADF did not pull all documents straight through. The deskew option
> could straighten this up though, however it cut off parts of the
> top/bottom images - or maybe those parts were never scanned. I am not
> quite sure why and the store did not have a good explanation. I
> assume this is because the scanner only scans when the paperrollers
> detect paper. Because the paperrollers are "somewhat" in the middle
> of the scanner when paper is skewed a corner of the paper would
> already be past the roller and at the end the final corner would not
> be scanned yet (hopefully you understand what I mean here). The
> result is that sometimes the corners of documents are not in the
> scanned image. These corners do however hold part of the information
> needed. I was truly disappointed by what I saw or maybe my
> expectations were too high and this is the state of current
> technology...
>
> Now my questions:
> Is this phenomenon a driver issue which can be corrected - if so how?
> - or is this a hardware issue which cannot be corrected?
> Do all ADF document scanners in this pricerange have this problem or
> are the Canon or Fujitsu better in this regard?
> Are there any other scanners which don't have this problem - they need
> to be able to scan thick postcards?
> Do (affordable) flatbed scanners exist with a duplex option (without
> ADF) with enough scanning speed?
> Is there some forum besides the newsgroup where these questions would
> be more appropriate?
>
> Thanks in advance for reading this, sharing your thoughts and
> answering my questions!
>
> Joe.
>

Joe,
There are some people who participate here that have scanned tens and
hundreds of thousands of documents or images using a vareity of methods.
One I recall even created some software for a commerical customer to
utilize.

Each project is unique from a scanning point of view.
It appears you have a variety of shape and sizes in objects (documents).
1) You need a variety of tools and a constant operator with the ability to
change methods on the fly. It's been my practice to attempt to keep the
work flow as close as possible to the original order of the documents
(rather than sorting the work flow by size and methods).

2) It's been my practice to deal with text and images sepatrely. Thus if
you have a document which inlcudes an image the result is two
digitiaztions.

3) For general text (plain black and white (line art), PDF is the simpliest
archival prcoess. The newest version of ABBYY FineReader (9.0) allows OCR
of PDF line art (later) for conversion to editable text.

4) for images, a variety of tools may be used.

5) ADF and multiple sizes are a dream and anything that is gained in saved
time will most likely be sacrficed in quality.

6) My work surrounds the archival of older periodicals and a $50 Cannon
scanned has been a workhorse. Course the cheapest scanners are absent of
depth of field, however sounds to me like something similar would do just
fine for your needs.

Good reading.
www.scantips.com

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:08:41 GMT, Don <lostinspace@123-universe.com> wrote:

>Joe <none@nowhere> wrote in
>news1ddr3pe1p6gl51f1hfgft92nv9avrlmat@4ax.com :
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am looking for a documentscanner to archive many documents. Some
>> of these are regular lettersize, others are thin paper @ 1/3rd letter
>> size, abt 10.000 are indexcard sized cardstock(thick paper), color
>> handwritten and printed pictures which all have just a bit different
>> size - no two are the same. Many documents have information on both
>> sides sometimes with stickers pasted on them.
>>
>> All this makes for a wide range of documents to process with
>> challenges to get the quality somewhat right. I started archiving
>> using my trusty old HP 5370 with Vuescan which works well as long as I
>> am careful in how I put the pages but it is way to slow in getting
>> everything scanned and filed during my lifetime without giving up
>> living a life. So now that documentscanners have reached a reasonable
>> pricepoint I am considering purchasing one and archiving more so the
>> original documents can be boxed and stored away from prime-space.
>> After searching various sites and reviews I had decided to check into
>> the Kodak I-1220 duplex scanner over the Canon DR-2580 and the Fujitsu
>> FI-5120 because of the praised feeder, image quality and ability to
>> scan plastic cards.
>>
>> I tested one (on the cardstock, different sizes) but found that the
>> ADF did not pull all documents straight through. The deskew option
>> could straighten this up though, however it cut off parts of the
>> top/bottom images - or maybe those parts were never scanned. I am not
>> quite sure why and the store did not have a good explanation. I
>> assume this is because the scanner only scans when the paperrollers
>> detect paper. Because the paperrollers are "somewhat" in the middle
>> of the scanner when paper is skewed a corner of the paper would
>> already be past the roller and at the end the final corner would not
>> be scanned yet (hopefully you understand what I mean here). The
>> result is that sometimes the corners of documents are not in the
>> scanned image. These corners do however hold part of the information
>> needed. I was truly disappointed by what I saw or maybe my
>> expectations were too high and this is the state of current
>> technology...
>>
>> Now my questions:
>> Is this phenomenon a driver issue which can be corrected - if so how?
>> - or is this a hardware issue which cannot be corrected?
>> Do all ADF document scanners in this pricerange have this problem or
>> are the Canon or Fujitsu better in this regard?
>> Are there any other scanners which don't have this problem - they need
>> to be able to scan thick postcards?
>> Do (affordable) flatbed scanners exist with a duplex option (without
>> ADF) with enough scanning speed?
>> Is there some forum besides the newsgroup where these questions would
>> be more appropriate?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for reading this, sharing your thoughts and
>> answering my questions!
>>
>> Joe.
>>
>
>Joe,
> There are some people who participate here that have scanned tens and
>hundreds of thousands of documents or images using a vareity of methods.
> One I recall even created some software for a commerical customer to
>utilize.
>
> Each project is unique from a scanning point of view.
> It appears you have a variety of shape and sizes in objects (documents).
>1) You need a variety of tools and a constant operator with the ability to
>change methods on the fly. It's been my practice to attempt to keep the
>work flow as close as possible to the original order of the documents
>(rather than sorting the work flow by size and methods).
>
>2) It's been my practice to deal with text and images sepatrely. Thus if
>you have a document which inlcudes an image the result is two
>digitiaztions.
>
>3) For general text (plain black and white (line art), PDF is the simpliest
>archival prcoess. The newest version of ABBYY FineReader (9.0) allows OCR
>of PDF line art (later) for conversion to editable text.
>
>4) for images, a variety of tools may be used.
>
>5) ADF and multiple sizes are a dream and anything that is gained in saved
>time will most likely be sacrficed in quality.
>
>6) My work surrounds the archival of older periodicals and a $50 Cannon
>scanned has been a workhorse. Course the cheapest scanners are absent of
>depth of field, however sounds to me like something similar would do just
>fine for your needs.
>
>Good reading.
>www.scantips.com

Don,

thanks for the constructive suggestions. I will take all these into account however, I am
not (yet) convinced that a documentscanner with duplex cannot to job I like to do -
especially with for some of the tasks OCR recognision on keywords. Yes you are correct on
the quality, however the Kodak's for example are apparently being used by photostores to
scan shoeboxes of old photographs. I would assume they would not do so if the quality
were bad.

Yes, a consistent workflow and a consistent operator: me :-)) - not the most consistent
person in the world are absolutely required.

But the biggest issue for me as of now is the "de-skew" on a documentscanner.... Still
looking for people wanting to share their experiences... scantips.com did not help me on
this.....