Joel <joel@nospam.com> wrote:
> Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> wrote:
>>
>> In more detail, and even on Windows:
>>
>> Run Notepad.
>> Type in a few lines of text:
>>
>> "Printers can print files in their native PDLs without drivers.
>> This page is proof of that."
>>
>> Save the file as sample.txt. This is a plain ASCII file.
>> Close Notepad.
>> Start a command shell (cmd).
>> FTP the file to the printer. For this example, we have a JetDirect
>> print server at 192.168.1.50:
>>
>> ftp 192.168.1.50
>>
>> Connected to laser.
>> 230 FTP Server Ready
>> User (lasernone)):
>>
>> Press Enter for no user name.
>>
>> 331 Enter password.
>> Password:
>>
>> Press Enter for no password.
>>
>> 230-Hewlett-Packard FTP Print Server Version 3.0.
>>
>> Directory: Description:
>> --------------------------
>> PORT hp LaserJet 4250
>>
>> To print a file use the command put <filename> [portx]
>> or 'cd' to a desired port and use put <filename>.
>>
>> 230 User logged in.
>> Remote system type is UNIX.
>> Using binary mode to transfer files.
>>
>> ftp>
>>
>> put sample.txt
>>
>> 200 Port command successful.
>> 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection.
>> 226-Ready
>> 226-Processing job.
>> 226 Transfer complete.
>> ftp: 91 bytes sent in 0.00Seconds 91000.00Kbytes/sec.
>> ftp>
>>
>> And the page prints. Yes, I actually did this to collect the output
>> above.
>>
>> quit (to leave the FTP program).
>>
>> On this particular printer, it would have also have worked if the sample
>> file was PostScript, PCL, or PDF.
>>
>> No driver was used to create the file or to print it.
>
> I see you try to use the printing command,
No, no printing command. All the indented lines are output from the
print server.
> but it doesn't mean anything, and as I said in order to print
> something to PAPER
It did print, on paper.
> the printer must have Printer Driver installed in order to print.
You seem very confused about all this, and I'm sorry if I haven't been
clear enough. In fairness, Windows makes a lot of things more difficult
than they need to be, and it is confusing. Let me try to clear up a few
things:
A "printer driver" is a program that converts application output into a
format the printer can understand.
If a file is created that the printer can understand directly, no driver
is needed.
Any of a number of methods can be used to deliver a file to the printer.
Usually this is by parallel, USB, or Ethernet.
A shorter example that is hopefully easier to understand:
An HP LaserJet 4250 printer is attached to a Windows XP computer with a
standard parallel cable.
A command shell (cmd) is started and the edit command is used to create
a text file called sample.txt:
C:\>edit sample.txt
The file has these contents:
This was created and printed without a driver at all!
^L
The last line is a formfeed character, entered with Ctrl-P Ctrl-L.
The copy command is used to send the file directly to the printer via
the parallel port:
C:\>copy /b sample.ps lpt1:
The page prints. No driver was used or needed. Note that this same
procedure works in MS-DOS, which doesn't even have printer drivers. It
will also work with most printers.
> Joel <joel@nospam.com> wrote:
> > Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> In more detail, and even on Windows:
> >>
> >> Run Notepad.
> >> Type in a few lines of text:
> >>
> >> "Printers can print files in their native PDLs without drivers.
> >> This page is proof of that."
> >>
> >> Save the file as sample.txt. This is a plain ASCII file.
> >> Close Notepad.
> >> Start a command shell (cmd).
> >> FTP the file to the printer. For this example, we have a JetDirect
> >> print server at 192.168.1.50:
> >>
> >> ftp 192.168.1.50
> >>
> >> Connected to laser.
> >> 230 FTP Server Ready
> >> User (lasernone)):
> >>
> >> Press Enter for no user name.
> >>
> >> 331 Enter password.
> >> Password:
> >>
> >> Press Enter for no password.
> >>
> >> 230-Hewlett-Packard FTP Print Server Version 3.0.
> >>
> >> Directory: Description:
> >> --------------------------
> >> PORT hp LaserJet 4250
> >>
> >> To print a file use the command put <filename> [portx]
> >> or 'cd' to a desired port and use put <filename>.
> >>
> >> 230 User logged in.
> >> Remote system type is UNIX.
> >> Using binary mode to transfer files.
> >>
> >> ftp>
> >>
> >> put sample.txt
> >>
> >> 200 Port command successful.
> >> 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection.
> >> 226-Ready
> >> 226-Processing job.
> >> 226 Transfer complete.
> >> ftp: 91 bytes sent in 0.00Seconds 91000.00Kbytes/sec.
> >> ftp>
> >>
> >> And the page prints. Yes, I actually did this to collect the output
> >> above.
> >>
> >> quit (to leave the FTP program).
> >>
> >> On this particular printer, it would have also have worked if the sample
> >> file was PostScript, PCL, or PDF.
> >>
> >> No driver was used to create the file or to print it.
> >
> > I see you try to use the printing command,
>
> No, no printing command. All the indented lines are output from the
> print server.
Do you know the meaning of "Printing" and "Command"?
Printing = spraying ink to paper
Command = telling the printer to spray ink to paper.
And it doesn't matter where you send (command) the Output or how you send
it. You can send it through NotePad, Word, Server, Browser, Graphic Editor
and on and on
> > but it doesn't mean anything, and as I said in order to print
> > something to PAPER
>
> It did print, on paper.
>
> > the printer must have Printer Driver installed in order to print.
>
> You seem very confused about all this, and I'm sorry if I haven't been
> clear enough. In fairness, Windows makes a lot of things more difficult
> than they need to be, and it is confusing. Let me try to clear up a few
> things:
It doesn't matter how difficult Windows may do, just to look at it from
the simplest point.
- All you need to do is installing a correct working Printer DRIVER then it
will make every thiing as sinmplest as hitting the PRINT command.
Also, most if not all LASER printers have built-in the option to PRINT
TEST some ASCII characters without connecting printer to computer. But if
you want to print from computer then AGAIN it will need Printer Driver.
> A "printer driver" is a program that converts application output into a
> format the printer can understand.
>
> If a file is created that the printer can understand directly, no driver
> is needed.
>
> Any of a number of methods can be used to deliver a file to the printer.
> Usually this is by parallel, USB, or Ethernet.
Whatever the Printer Driver is, even I kinda disagree with you about
converting, or I would say communicating which is much simpler than spending
time converting one format to other, and there will be more chance to have
more converting bug.
> A shorter example that is hopefully easier to understand:
>
> An HP LaserJet 4250 printer is attached to a Windows XP computer with a
> standard parallel cable.
>
> A command shell (cmd) is started and the edit command is used to create
> a text file called sample.txt:
>
> C:\>edit sample.txt
>
> The file has these contents:
>
> This was created and printed without a driver at all!
> ^L
>
> The last line is a formfeed character, entered with Ctrl-P Ctrl-L.
>
> The copy command is used to send the file directly to the printer via
> the parallel port:
>
> C:\>copy /b sample.ps lpt1:
>
> The page prints. No driver was used or needed. Note that this same
> procedure works in MS-DOS, which doesn't even have printer drivers. It
> will also work with most printers.
Whatever you try to do, it's all the same.
- You send the command from anywhere, any application doesn't matter
- The command will communicate with the computer
- The system (OS) will communicate with the Printer Driver
- The Printer Driver will communicate with the Printer
.... then you have a **** photo printed on paper. Or none of the RUN, DOS
Prompt etc. command can print without printer driver.
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:17:19 -0600, Joel wrote:
> > Martin Trautmann <t-use@gmx.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 10:55:48 -0600, Joel wrote:
> > > > > > YES, you can transfer the FILE to a remoted system, then have someone at the
> > > > > > remoted system print the file for you
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NO, FTP is File Transferring Protocal (not File To Print) so you can't print
> > > > > > using FTP
> > > > >
> > > > > This is incorrect. HP JetDirect print servers (and maybe other brands)
> > > > > will accept and print files sent by FTP.
> > > >
> > > > You must be kidding right? and why not saying that all Windows OSes come
> > > > FPT application that most people don't use.
> > >
> > > It's a rather straightforward task to set up a print driver which does
> > > catch files by ftp and sends them to the printer - and it is possible to
> > > build this funtion into a network printer directly.
> >
> > It's possible that the Printer Server (not FPT) has built-in option to
> > send Printing Command to printer (just like NotePad, Word, WordPerfect,
> > Browser, and Usenet Reader etc.). But again, the system with the printer
> > connected to must have Printer Driver in order to tell the printer to print
> > to paper.
>
> That does not matter, from the user's point of view. There's no printer
> driver on his own system.
Then there won't be NO PRINT.
> > > Even the manual operation is something which proves this point: burn a
> > > PDF to disk, send this to a copy shop and they may print and return it
> > > to you, without any need for any driver on your own side. All you might
> > > need is a credit card and some post men.
> >
> > You are correct, but that isn't what we are talking about. Or you may not
> > need the printer driver, but in order to print your PDF file the shop still
> > need printer driver INSTALLED.
>
> You asked for a proof that systems without driver may work - and I
> proofed it. All what you do name as using a printer driver might be
> merged within a single device, within the casing of a single so called
> printer. Would this make any difference to you? It does not matter
> whether this is within a single device, a single building (the copy shop
> from the building before) or split to multiple devices: Every printer
> needs some kind of translation in order to know what to do with certain
> bits in order to make certain dots out of them.
>
> I doubt that you are able to give a working description what a driver is
> and what not - but I'm very sure there are tons of configurations where
> no driver is need on the user's computer, while there are networking and
> printer options that may take certain files and create a printout from
> them, maybe within external printer drivers, maybe without, but that
> does not matter at all.
It doesn't matter if the Printer Driver is Internal or Exteral, the point
that computer won't print without printer driver.
> > > There must be some kind of interface between computer and printer
> > > anywhere - but there are many print servers around which have more or
> > > less unidirectional communication only and it's a matter of definition
> > > what you may call driving and what not. Is it a "driver" to move ink or
> > > toner to the paper or does it know where to make something black on its
> > > own?
> > >
> > > - Martin
> >
> > Yes,
> >
> > - The printer has built-in the Printer Head with option to move around to
> > spray ink to paper.
> >
> > - The printer connected to computer via Parallel or USB port
>
> or SCSI or serial or centronix or or or.
> Typical here would be a simple LAN cable, while WLAN is yet another
> option, even Bluetooth may work, as well as "usb stick" network.
>
> > - The Cable requires bunch of WIRES and much be in working order to take the
> > printing command from computer
> >
> > - The computer will convert whatever Font, Text, Graphic, Color etc. into
> > the computer language that the printer understand, then the printer will
> > follow the command
> >
> > - And all of the above won't do any good without the correct and working
> > Printer Driver installed.
> >
> > The driver may not control the INK which usually the duty of the printer
> > utility comes with the printer, or some application may call Printing
> > Management (or something like that)
>
> Much of this can be done without anything what you consider to be a
> driver.
>
> Many printers are able to print directly from certain exchange formats.
>
> Where's the "driver" when you take your SD card from your camera, plug
> it into your printer and select to print .jpg number 12?
>
> Please define "driver" - and I hope that your definition is more precise
> than "any appropriate source or exchange format".
>
> - Martin
The DRIVER is part of the SYSTEM, Digital Camera, GPS, Laptop and on and
on are COMPUTERS themselves.
Do you understand that Digital Camera is COMPUTER? Do you understand that
Cellphone, Palm, Laptop etc. can be GPS? even the REMOTE control can be
basic a specific computer too.
Joel <joel@nospam.com> wrote:
> It doesn't matter how difficult Windows may do, just to look at it from
> the simplest point.
>
> - All you need to do is installing a correct working Printer DRIVER then it
> will make every thiing as sinmplest as hitting the PRINT command.
[I've chopped out all the baseless ranting to pass the savings on to YOU!]
Twice now, I've provided methods that anyone can duplicate in order to
create and print files without drivers. I even did them on Windows, and
don't think the scars from that won't last. This is called "proof".
You have claimed that a driver is always required to print. Maybe this
is just a translation problem from your native language into English.
If it's not a language problem, please provide some equivalent proof
that you are correct. Otherwise, I'm going to have to charge for the
full half hour.
Driverless printing in FreeBSD
LaserJet 4250 at 192.168.1.50
echo '%\!PS \
/Helvetica findfont 20 scalefont setfont \
32 32 moveto \
(This prints without a driver! Ha ha ha!) show \
showpage' | nc 192.168.1.50 9100
> Joel <joel@nospam.com> wrote:
>> It doesn't matter how difficult Windows may do, just to look at it from
>> the simplest point.
>>
>> - All you need to do is installing a correct working Printer DRIVER then it
>> will make every thiing as sinmplest as hitting the PRINT command.
>
> [I've chopped out all the baseless ranting to pass the savings on to YOU!]
>
> Twice now, I've provided methods that anyone can duplicate in order to
> create and print files without drivers. I even did them on Windows, and
> don't think the scars from that won't last. This is called "proof".
>
> You have claimed that a driver is always required to print. Maybe this
> is just a translation problem from your native language into English.
>
> If it's not a language problem, please provide some equivalent proof
> that you are correct. Otherwise, I'm going to have to charge for the
> full half hour.
>
>
> Special Free Bonus #1:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Print_driver
>
>
> Special Free Bonus #2:
>
> Driverless printing in FreeBSD
> LaserJet 4250 at 192.168.1.50
>
> echo '%\!PS \
> /Helvetica findfont 20 scalefont setfont \
> 32 32 moveto \
> (This prints without a driver! Ha ha ha!) show \
> showpage' | nc 192.168.1.50 9100
>
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:40:57 -0600, Joel wrote:
> > Please define "driver" - and I hope that your definition is more precise
> > than "any appropriate source or exchange format".
>
> The DRIVER is part of the SYSTEM, Digital Camera, GPS, Laptop and on and
> on are COMPUTERS themselves.
>
> Do you understand that Digital Camera is COMPUTER? Do you understand that
> Cellphone, Palm, Laptop etc. can be GPS? even the REMOTE control can be
> basic a specific computer too.
So I give up. You are right and everyone else here trying to discuss
with you is wrong.
It does not help the person who asked before - the answer for whim is
different than the answer to you....
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:01:16 -0400, Dave Boland wrote:
> Are there any network printers that don't need drivers?
If the printer does understand e.g. postscript, PCL 5e and PCL 6, you can do
without any special printing driver and use some generic device.
Using the printing driver may add better functions, such as duplex print
or diagnostics. Thus at least one computer should have the driver
installed, while all other networked computers may do so without.
> Joel <joel@nospam.com> wrote:
> > It doesn't matter how difficult Windows may do, just to look at it from
> > the simplest point.
> >
> > - All you need to do is installing a correct working Printer DRIVER then it
> > will make every thiing as sinmplest as hitting the PRINT command.
>
> [I've chopped out all the baseless ranting to pass the savings on to YOU!]
>
> Twice now, I've provided methods that anyone can duplicate in order to
> create and print files without drivers. I even did them on Windows, and
> don't think the scars from that won't last. This is called "proof".
>
> You have claimed that a driver is always required to print. Maybe this
> is just a translation problem from your native language into English.
>
> If it's not a language problem, please provide some equivalent proof
> that you are correct. Otherwise, I'm going to have to charge for the
> full half hour.
As I have mentioned that most if not all Windows applications like
NotePad, Word, WordPerfect etc. should give you the option to "PRINT TO
FILE" so you can print to file without Printer Driver and even without
PRINTER.
But if you want to print to paper then the system must have Printer &
Printer DRIVER installed.
> Special Free Bonus #1:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Print_driver
>
>
> Special Free Bonus #2:
>
> Driverless printing in FreeBSD
> LaserJet 4250 at 192.168.1.50
>
> echo '%\!PS \
> /Helvetica findfont 20 scalefont setfont \
> 32 32 moveto \
> (This prints without a driver! Ha ha ha!) show \
> showpage' | nc 192.168.1.50 9100
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:40:57 -0600, Joel wrote:
> > > Please define "driver" - and I hope that your definition is more precise
> > > than "any appropriate source or exchange format".
> >
> > The DRIVER is part of the SYSTEM, Digital Camera, GPS, Laptop and on and
> > on are COMPUTERS themselves.
> >
> > Do you understand that Digital Camera is COMPUTER? Do you understand that
> > Cellphone, Palm, Laptop etc. can be GPS? even the REMOTE control can be
> > basic a specific computer too.
>
> So I give up. You are right and everyone else here trying to discuss
> with you is wrong.
>
> It does not help the person who asked before - the answer for whim is
> different than the answer to you....
>
> - Martin
Well, I agree it doesn't help the OP as he didn't ask about Digital
Camera, but I am sure it helps you to realize that Digital Camera, Cellphone
etc. are computer, and some model may have some specific printer driver
installed for specific printer.
You know what! my DSLR cameras not only can print but they can also
transfering data remotely (wireless) as well as they can trigger multiple
wireless flashes too. They also allow me to upgrade to newer firmware from
memory card, and my computer can see the camera as Extrenal Drive too.
Re: Printer without driver 
none)):
Linear Mode
