> On 10/29/2009 05:06 PM firebird-jmw@invalid.invalid scribbled:
>
> sorry, I am bottom posting your reply, firebird, to make it flow:
>
> > On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:01:16 -0400, Dave Boland <dboland9@fastmail.fm>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Are there any network printers that don't need drivers? The reason for
> >> asking is a network that has 3 operaitng systems of varoius levels,
> >> which gets into driver heck. I would think high-end network printers
> >> would have web interfaces for admin. & maint., and standard data formats
> >> (post script, pdf, text, jpg, gif, png, tiff) could be ftp'd to the
> >> printer directly.
> >>
> >> Dave,
>
> > A network connected postscript printer should do what you want. You
> > need a postscript driver in each computer. Once the data is in
> > postscript and the protocol is IP, it should work.
> >
>
> in response to the same question, I received this reply from the other
> group:
You got different answers because you asked the wrong question. So I will
try to add more to the existing answers
> writer name withheld:
>
> */
> Think about your own question: "It is possible to print without one on a
> network printer by using FTP to transfer the file to the printer"
YES and NO
YES, you can transfer the FILE to a remoted system, then have someone at the
remoted system print the file for you
NO, FTP is File Transferring Protocal (not File To Print) so you can't print
using FTP
> "the file" .... WHAT FILE?
>
> You expect a printer to take a Microsoft Word document (*.doc) or an
> Excel spreadsheet (*.xls) or a PowerPoint presentation (*.ppt) and print
> it? What's missing is not a "driver" ... it's the entire application.
You asked the wrong question here, cuz the printer with printer driver
installed should be able to print ALL formats (files) the program can read
and display.
> The idea that anything can be printed without a driver is nonsensical,
> unless "anything" is no more than plain ASCII text.
Wrong question again, even with TEXT the system still need printer driver
in order to print... anything or everything.
> A driver (and, for that matter, an application) is required. ALWAYS.
> The best you can hope for is a very common page description language and
> a "universal" driver. That can work for ASCII, PCL and PostScript (and
> a few more) but a "universal" driver, if it works at all, won't be able
> to take advantage of any special features or capabilities of any given
> particular printer.
More wrong question you ask, more confusing you will get.
> /*
>
> go figure...
Go figure? I would say DO NOT TRY to figure anything doesn't sound right.
Joel <joel@nospam.com> wrote:
> Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> wrote:
>
>> jrg <connyank@cox.net> wrote:
>> > On 10/29/2009 06:28 PM Warren Block scribbled:
>> >
>> >> jrg <connyank@cox.net> wrote:
>> >>> On 10/29/2009 02:01 PM Dave Boland scribbled:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Are there any network printers that don't need drivers? The reason for
>> >>>> asking is a network that has 3 operaitng systems of varoius levels,
>> >>>> which gets into driver heck. I would think high-end network printers
>> >>>> would have web interfaces for admin. & maint., and standard data formats
>> >>>> (post script, pdf, text, jpg, gif, png, tiff) could be ftp'd to the
>> >>>> printer directly.
>> >>>>
>> >>> I for one had the same question about 2 weeks ago in the
>> >>> alt.comp.periphs.printer group sand was basically told I didn't know
>> >>> what I was talking about. I /had/ heard it was possible to ftp to a
>> >>> printer - only responses were of the negative variety.
>> >>
>> >> HP JetDirect print servers have accepted jobs by a bunch of different
>> >> protocols, including FTP, for years. There's also a web admin
>> >> interface.
>> >>
>> >> As far as not needing a driver, the PostScript LaserJets handle a lot of
>> >> formats, usually PostScript, PCL, and plain text. Newer versions can
>> >> print PDF also.
>> >>
>> >
>> > The question is do they need drivers?
>>
>> If the file is a type the printer can understand, no, just send that
>> file to the printer.
>>
>> Otherwise, you need a driver to take application output and format it
>> for the printer.
>
> ALL printers will require Printer DRIVER to communicate between Computer
> and Printer.
This is not correct.
> The printer may not need any special driver (or the system or program
> handle them) to print some special format as long as the system
> supports it/them.
This is unclear, but appears to be restating what I said above:
"If the file is a type the printer can understand, no, just send that
file to the printer."
>> Think about your own question: "It is possible to print without one on a
>> network printer by using FTP to transfer the file to the printer"
>
> YES and NO
>
> YES, you can transfer the FILE to a remoted system, then have someone at the
> remoted system print the file for you
>
> NO, FTP is File Transferring Protocal (not File To Print) so you can't print
> using FTP
This is incorrect. HP JetDirect print servers (and maybe other brands)
will accept and print files sent by FTP.
>> The idea that anything can be printed without a driver is nonsensical,
>> unless "anything" is no more than plain ASCII text.
>
> Wrong question again, even with TEXT the system still need printer driver
> in order to print... anything or everything.
This is incorrect. To use the example of HP LaserJet printers, you can
create and print files without a driver if the printer already
understands that type of file. For example, create a text file using a
simple text editor (Notepad, not Word), then send it to the printer via
FTP or port 9100 or lpd or several other ways. No driver.
Certainly there are terrible host-based printers which require drivers
because all they can render are bitmaps. But not all printers are like
that, even on Windows.
>> A driver (and, for that matter, an application) is required. ALWAYS.
See the example above. And watch out for absolutes.
Joel <joel@nospam.com> wrote:
> Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> wrote:
>
>> > ALL printers will require Printer DRIVER to communicate between Computer
>> > and Printer.
>>
>> This is not correct.
>
> Then you are correct and it must be a DEAD printer.
>
>> > The printer may not need any special driver (or the system or program
>> > handle them) to print some special format as long as the system
>> > supports it/them.
>>
>> This is unclear, but appears to be restating what I said above:
>>
>> "If the file is a type the printer can understand, no, just send that
>> file to the printer."
>
> This is correct and incorrect.
>
> Correct, the printer will except all font types it supports
> Incorrect, but the printer need DRIVER to communicate between Computer and
> Printer.
>
> Samething, you may have the right idea but without internet, without
> computer, or without reader then you can communicate with internet user to
> share your right idea.
There seems to be a basic misunderstanding between two things here. The
first is the PDL. The second is the method of getting the file to the
printer. Those are two separate things.
> > ALL printers will require Printer DRIVER to communicate between Computer
> > and Printer.
>
> This is not correct.
Then you are correct and it must be a DEAD printer.
> > The printer may not need any special driver (or the system or program
> > handle them) to print some special format as long as the system
> > supports it/them.
>
> This is unclear, but appears to be restating what I said above:
>
> "If the file is a type the printer can understand, no, just send that
> file to the printer."
This is correct and incorrect.
Correct, the printer will except all font types it supports
Incorrect, but the printer need DRIVER to communicate between Computer and
Printer.
Samething, you may have the right idea but without internet, without
computer, or without reader then you can communicate with internet user to
share your right idea.
> Joel <joel@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >> Think about your own question: "It is possible to print without one on a
> >> network printer by using FTP to transfer the file to the printer"
> >
> > YES and NO
> >
> > YES, you can transfer the FILE to a remoted system, then have someone at the
> > remoted system print the file for you
> >
> > NO, FTP is File Transferring Protocal (not File To Print) so you can't print
> > using FTP
>
> This is incorrect. HP JetDirect print servers (and maybe other brands)
> will accept and print files sent by FTP.
You must be kidding right? and why not saying that all Windows OSes come
FPT application that most people don't use.
And Print Server is a SERVER not printer driver so it may allow to have
access to printer, but the printer just won't print without Printer Driver.
> >> The idea that anything can be printed without a driver is nonsensical,
> >> unless "anything" is no more than plain ASCII text.
> >
> > Wrong question again, even with TEXT the system still need printer driver
> > in order to print... anything or everything.
>
> This is incorrect. To use the example of HP LaserJet printers, you can
> create and print files without a driver if the printer already
> understands that type of file. For example, create a text file using a
> simple text editor (Notepad, not Word), then send it to the printer via
> FTP or port 9100 or lpd or several other ways. No driver.
>
> Certainly there are terrible host-based printers which require drivers
> because all they can render are bitmaps. But not all printers are like
> that, even on Windows.
>
> >> A driver (and, for that matter, an application) is required. ALWAYS.
>
> See the example above. And watch out for absolutes.
Joel <joel@nospam.com> wrote:
> Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> wrote:
>
>> Joel <joel@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> Think about your own question: "It is possible to print without one on a
>> >> network printer by using FTP to transfer the file to the printer"
>> >
>> > YES and NO
>> >
>> > YES, you can transfer the FILE to a remoted system, then have someone at the
>> > remoted system print the file for you
>> >
>> > NO, FTP is File Transferring Protocal (not File To Print) so you can't print
>> > using FTP
>>
>> This is incorrect. HP JetDirect print servers (and maybe other brands)
>> will accept and print files sent by FTP.
>
> You must be kidding right? and why not saying that all Windows OSes come
> FPT application that most people don't use.
It's hard to tell what you're saying. Yes, even Windows includes an FTP
client, and yes, it can be used to transfer files to a JetDirect. Kind
of sounds like you're saying that since most people don't use it, it
doesn't exist, but that can't be right.
> And Print Server is a SERVER not printer driver so it may allow to have
> access to printer, but the printer just won't print without Printer Driver.
As I show below, you are mistaken.
>> >> The idea that anything can be printed without a driver is nonsensical,
>> >> unless "anything" is no more than plain ASCII text.
>> >
>> > Wrong question again, even with TEXT the system still need printer driver
>> > in order to print... anything or everything.
>>
>> This is incorrect. To use the example of HP LaserJet printers, you can
>> create and print files without a driver if the printer already
>> understands that type of file. For example, create a text file using a
>> simple text editor (Notepad, not Word), then send it to the printer via
>> FTP or port 9100 or lpd or several other ways. No driver.
>>
>> Certainly there are terrible host-based printers which require drivers
>> because all they can render are bitmaps. But not all printers are like
>> that, even on Windows.
>>
>> >> A driver (and, for that matter, an application) is required. ALWAYS.
>>
>> See the example above. And watch out for absolutes.
>
> Then give and prove your point.
I did, but let me repeat:
>> To use the example of HP LaserJet printers, you can
>> create and print files without a driver if the printer already
>> understands that type of file. For example, create a text file using a
>> simple text editor (Notepad, not Word), then send it to the printer via
>> FTP or port 9100 or lpd or several other ways. No driver.
In more detail, and even on Windows:
Run Notepad.
Type in a few lines of text:
"Printers can print files in their native PDLs without drivers.
This page is proof of that."
Save the file as sample.txt. This is a plain ASCII file.
Close Notepad.
Start a command shell (cmd).
FTP the file to the printer. For this example, we have a JetDirect
print server at 192.168.1.50:
ftp 192.168.1.50
Connected to laser.
230 FTP Server Ready
User (lasernone)):
Press Enter for no user name.
331 Enter password.
Password:
Press Enter for no password.
230-Hewlett-Packard FTP Print Server Version 3.0.
Directory: Description:
--------------------------
PORT hp LaserJet 4250
To print a file use the command put <filename> [portx]
or 'cd' to a desired port and use put <filename>.
230 User logged in.
Remote system type is UNIX.
Using binary mode to transfer files.
ftp>
put sample.txt
200 Port command successful.
150 Opening BINARY mode data connection.
226-Ready
226-Processing job.
226 Transfer complete.
ftp: 91 bytes sent in 0.00Seconds 91000.00Kbytes/sec.
ftp>
And the page prints. Yes, I actually did this to collect the output
above.
quit (to leave the FTP program).
On this particular printer, it would have also have worked if the sample
file was PostScript, PCL, or PDF.
No driver was used to create the file or to print it.
In article <slrnherefo.ses.wblock@lightning.wonkity.com>,
Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> wrote:
> There seems to be a basic misunderstanding between two things here. The
> first is the PDL. The second is the method of getting the file to the
> printer. Those are two separate things.
Warren-
You're quite right. But both are required in order to print.
One might define a driver as that which does both things. So if you do
both manually, you can print without a driver. If you do only one
thing, then a driver is that which does the other.
On 1-Nov-2009, Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> wrote:
> No driver was used to create the file or to print it.
AFAIR the old dot matrix printers didn't need drivers,
you just sent ASCII characters to them, just like
you used to do with the ASR33 Teletypes, and Dec
Writer page printers.
The drivers came in when you had to convert an
application produced document to something
the printer could understand.
And if you got it wrong, instead of a nice printed
page you got sheet after sheet of Postscript
command language, and had to pull the plug
before you ran out of paper.
Re: Printer without driver 
none)):
Linear Mode
