Core 2 Duo Retail HS/Fan

My 4500 is coming today!

Does Intel still use the "tape" between the cpu and the hs?

Does it come pre-assembled?

I'll be using the stock HS so should I lap the CPU and use good thermal
compound?

thx

bob

"Bob Johnson" <me@getlost.com> wrote in message
news:x9OdndL0jJevG9DanZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> My 4500 is coming today!
>
> Does Intel still use the "tape" between the cpu and the hs?
>
> Does it come pre-assembled?
>
> I'll be using the stock HS so should I lap the CPU and use good
> thermal compound?
>
> thx
>
> bob
>

All the ones I've seen come with the "paste" (3 stripes of it) already
attached
to the heatsink.

Take care with the CPU socket pins - easily damaged.
I wouldn't lap the CPU.
The ones I've seen looked pretty smooth.

Eric

--
Remove the dross to contact me directly

So, do I just use the "stripes" or get some good compound?


thx

bob



"Eric Parker" <newsnet@thedrossericparker.plus.com> wrote in message
news:13kr56t7uvnc0a5@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Bob Johnson" <me@getlost.com> wrote in message
> news:x9OdndL0jJevG9DanZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> My 4500 is coming today!
>>
>> Does Intel still use the "tape" between the cpu and the hs?
>>
>> Does it come pre-assembled?
>>
>> I'll be using the stock HS so should I lap the CPU and use good thermal
>> compound?
>>
>> thx
>>
>> bob
>>
>
> All the ones I've seen come with the "paste" (3 stripes of it) already
> attached
> to the heatsink.
>
> Take care with the CPU socket pins - easily damaged.
> I wouldn't lap the CPU.
> The ones I've seen looked pretty smooth.
>
> Eric
>
> --
> Remove the dross to contact me directly
>

'Bob Johnson' wrote:
| So, do I just use the "stripes" or get some good compound?
_____

The 'stripes are not tape, but rather a thermal compound that is 'squished'
to cover the surface when you install the heatsink. It is very similar to
many of the third party thermal compounds that you might purchase (and very
little different in performance.) You might as well try installing it as it
is since you are going to be using the Intel retail, boxed, stock
heatsink/fan. I found my E4300 heatspreader to be flat and smooth, and the
Intel retail, boxed, stock heatsink/fan was pretty good also.

There really is no 'good' thermal compound; 'Arctic Silver' in all its
morphs is only marginally, if at all, better than Radio Shack zinc oxide
filled silicone grease. The main thing is that the smoother and flatter the
surfaces, the less viscous the thermal compound should be. Thermal tape and
pads DO perform considerably less well - they are designed for easy correct
application rather than best performance. Five years or so ago I posted a
comparison here of 'Arctic Silver', RadioShack zinc oxide/silicone grease,
no compound, and unsalted Land o' Lakes butter (butter does surprisingly
well, but tends to go rancid.)

I replaced the Intel retail, boxed, stock heatsink/fan with a ThermalTake i7
after a few months with these results I posted July 9th of this year under
the thread [ Aftermarket heatsink/fan reduces Core 2 Duo overclock
temperatures ] .

I'd suggest you not bother lapping the CPU or stock heatsink until you see
the result. Most likely you will find it easy to get a 50% overclock, and
that you will need water cooling to get significantly more.

Phil Weldon

"Bob Johnson" <me@getlost.com> wrote in message
news:IKCdnT3gppvKitPanZ2dnUVZ_tijnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
| So, do I just use the "stripes" or get some good compound?
|
|
| thx
|
| bob
|
|
|
| "Eric Parker" <newsnet@thedrossericparker.plus.com> wrote in message
| news:13kr56t7uvnc0a5@corp.supernews.com...
| >
| > "Bob Johnson" <me@getlost.com> wrote in message
| > news:x9OdndL0jJevG9DanZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
| >> My 4500 is coming today!
| >>
| >> Does Intel still use the "tape" between the cpu and the hs?
| >>
| >> Does it come pre-assembled?
| >>
| >> I'll be using the stock HS so should I lap the CPU and use good thermal
| >> compound?
| >>
| >> thx
| >>
| >> bob
| >>
| >
| > All the ones I've seen come with the "paste" (3 stripes of it) already
| > attached
| > to the heatsink.
| >
| > Take care with the CPU socket pins - easily damaged.
| > I wouldn't lap the CPU.
| > The ones I've seen looked pretty smooth.
| >
| > Eric
| >
| > --
| > Remove the dross to contact me directly
| >
|
|

Thanks, Phil

I'll try as is and report back.

bob



"Phil Weldon" <not.disclosed@example.com> wrote in message
news:13ksj18efk5dgf6@corp.supernews.com...
> 'Bob Johnson' wrote:
> | So, do I just use the "stripes" or get some good compound?
> _____
>
> The 'stripes are not tape, but rather a thermal compound that is
> 'squished'
> to cover the surface when you install the heatsink. It is very similar to
> many of the third party thermal compounds that you might purchase (and
> very
> little different in performance.) You might as well try installing it as
> it
> is since you are going to be using the Intel retail, boxed, stock
> heatsink/fan. I found my E4300 heatspreader to be flat and smooth, and
> the
> Intel retail, boxed, stock heatsink/fan was pretty good also.
>
> There really is no 'good' thermal compound; 'Arctic Silver' in all its
> morphs is only marginally, if at all, better than Radio Shack zinc oxide
> filled silicone grease. The main thing is that the smoother and flatter
> the
> surfaces, the less viscous the thermal compound should be. Thermal tape
> and
> pads DO perform considerably less well - they are designed for easy
> correct
> application rather than best performance. Five years or so ago I posted a
> comparison here of 'Arctic Silver', RadioShack zinc oxide/silicone grease,
> no compound, and unsalted Land o' Lakes butter (butter does surprisingly
> well, but tends to go rancid.)
>
> I replaced the Intel retail, boxed, stock heatsink/fan with a ThermalTake
> i7
> after a few months with these results I posted July 9th of this year under
> the thread [ Aftermarket heatsink/fan reduces Core 2 Duo overclock
> temperatures ] .
>
> I'd suggest you not bother lapping the CPU or stock heatsink until you see
> the result. Most likely you will find it easy to get a 50% overclock, and
> that you will need water cooling to get significantly more.
>
> Phil Weldon
>
> "Bob Johnson" <me@getlost.com> wrote in message
> news:IKCdnT3gppvKitPanZ2dnUVZ_tijnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> | So, do I just use the "stripes" or get some good compound?
> |
> |
> | thx
> |
> | bob
> |
> |
> |
> | "Eric Parker" <newsnet@thedrossericparker.plus.com> wrote in message
> | news:13kr56t7uvnc0a5@corp.supernews.com...
> | >
> | > "Bob Johnson" <me@getlost.com> wrote in message
> | > news:x9OdndL0jJevG9DanZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> | >> My 4500 is coming today!
> | >>
> | >> Does Intel still use the "tape" between the cpu and the hs?
> | >>
> | >> Does it come pre-assembled?
> | >>
> | >> I'll be using the stock HS so should I lap the CPU and use good
> thermal
> | >> compound?
> | >>
> | >> thx
> | >>
> | >> bob
> | >>
> | >
> | > All the ones I've seen come with the "paste" (3 stripes of it) already
> | > attached
> | > to the heatsink.
> | >
> | > Take care with the CPU socket pins - easily damaged.
> | > I wouldn't lap the CPU.
> | > The ones I've seen looked pretty smooth.
> | >
> | > Eric
> | >
> | > --
> | > Remove the dross to contact me directly
> | >
> |
> |
>
>

Phil Weldon wrote:

> I found my E4300 heatspreader to be flat and smooth, and the
> Intel retail, boxed, stock heatsink/fan was pretty good also.

The first and only Intel HSF I checked looked flat, but was distorted
from pressing the copper center into the aluminum. This made it
high along the outside edge. Since I did not have a piece of glass
narrow enough to lap it, I sc****d around the outside edge with a
razor blade instead. I think might have helped, maybe! Anyway, I'd
check it if I were you. The E2160 has an all aluminum HSF.

Arctic Silver has interesting paste application instructions for
various processors:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/instructions.htm

Somewhere on teh interweb Fishface typed:
> Phil Weldon wrote:
>
>> I found my E4300 heatspreader to be flat and smooth, and the
>> Intel retail, boxed, stock heatsink/fan was pretty good also.
>
> The first and only Intel HSF I checked looked flat, but was distorted
> from pressing the copper center into the aluminum. This made it
> high along the outside edge. Since I did not have a piece of glass
> narrow enough to lap it, I sc****d around the outside edge with a
> razor blade instead. I think might have helped, maybe! Anyway, I'd
> check it if I were you. The E2160 has an all aluminum HSF.

My E4500 came with an all aluminium HS too. I think perhaps if it'd had a
copper-core one I wouldn't have had to replace it when I overclocked it.
--
TTFN,

Shaun.

'Fishface' wrote:
| Phil Weldon wrote:
|
| > I found my E4300 heatspreader to be flat and smooth, and the
| > Intel retail, boxed, stock heatsink/fan was pretty good also.
|
| The first and only Intel HSF I checked looked flat, but was distorted
| from pressing the copper center into the aluminum. This made it
| high along the outside edge. Since I did not have a piece of glass
| narrow enough to lap it, I sc****d around the outside edge with a
| razor blade instead. I think might have helped, maybe! Anyway, I'd
| check it if I were you. The E2160 has an all aluminum HSF.
|
| Arctic Silver has interesting paste application instructions for
| various processors:
|
| http://www.arcticsilver.com/instructions.htm
_____

Interesting to note that 'Arctic Silver' seems to be moving away from
thermal compounds that contain silver particles. Epically after maintaining
for so long that the silver loaded grease was so superior. And after
claiming that 'Arctic Silver' thermal grease was not conductive or
electrically a problem! It seems they have moved away from performance
claims to elaborate application and removal instructions B^) I now favor
applying thermal grease with a single edge razor blade and go for a layer
that is just translucent. The razor edge is a good check for flatness, and
naturally leaves a thicker coat on depressed areas.

I've run only one set of tests for thermal compounds, and that was seven
years ago. But since then I've always considered 'Arctic Silver' a strong
competitor with snake oil. Below are my early comparison results - using a
Pentium III 1GHz 700 MHz 100 MHz FSB. For those who don't remember the
Alpha PEP66U heatsink, it was large for its time, over all about 5 inches X
2.5 inches X 2.5 inch ( 125 X 60 mm X 60 mm) with about 40 very thin fins
brazed into slots in the base plate, the whole of black anodized aluminum,
with two 60 mm fans in the top of an aluminum shroud covering three sides of
the fin block. Likely the best CPU heatsink/fan for its time. I've still
got three, and may use them with Peltier arrays to cool water prior to the
CPU water block - yeah, real soon now B^)

You can skip to the end if you can't stand the suspense as to the winner!

*** Thermal Compound Test***

Thermal compound test with Pentium III 700 @ 700 and 1.65 volts, Windows
2000, SETI@home
Alpha PEP66U heatsink and fan, ambient room temperature air entering
heatsink fan. Two internal fans in server case with one side open and 10 "
fan blowing room air directly at the CPU heatsink/fan/motherboard.

Motherboard is Abit BX6 rev. 2 modified to read actual CPU temperature from
on-CPU-chip thermal diode.
Mother Board Monitor version 4.17 used for monitoring; temperatures logged
at 30 second intervals.

Preparation of heatsink and FC-PGA surfaces for test:

Thoroughly wiped all visible traces of compound from both surfaces.
Thoroughly scrubbed both surfaces with acetone and cotton swab.
Dried both surfaces with cotton swab, checking to make sure no lint was
left.

Applied very thin layer of compound, but enough to ensure coverage of the
entire FC-PGA chip surface.
Mounted FC-PGA in Abit SlotKET!!! adaptor, then mounted Alpha PEP66,
pressing straight down and engaging clips. Alpha PEP66U was then removed to
check full contact with thermal compound. Cleaning and application was
repeated, and Alpha PEP66U was remounted.

#1. No thermal compound
Idle
Ambient room temperature: 27 C
Motherboard temperature: 35 C
CPU temperature: 32 C
SETI@home version 3.0
Ambient room temperature: 27 C
Motherboard temperature: 38 C
CPU temperature: 52 C

#2. RadioShack catalog number 276-1372 zinc oxide in silicone
Idle
Ambient room temperature: 26 C
Motherboard temperature: 32 C
CPU temperature: 26 C
SETI@home version 3.0
Ambient room temperature: 26 C
Motherboard temperature: 36 C
CPU temperature: 30 to 36 C
(Test run # 2 may be affected by the work unit; angle covered is 0)

#3. Alpha supplied thermal grease
Idle
Ambient room temperature: 24 C
Motherboard temperature: 30 C
CPU temperature: 25 C
SETI@home version 3.0
Ambient room temperature: 24 C
Motherboard temperature: 33 C
CPU temperature: 29 C - 35 C

#4. Land 'o Lakes unsalted butter, 72% butterfat:
Idle
Ambient room temperature: 26 C
Motherboard temperature: 32 C
CPU temperature: 26 C

SETI@home version 3.0
Ambient room temperature: 26 C
Motherboard temperature: 35 C
CPU temperature: 32 C - 40 C

#5. Arctic Silver for small areas:
Idle
Ambient room temperature: 25 C
Motherboard temperature: 32 C
CPU temperature: 28 C

SETI@home version 3.0
Ambient room temperature: 25 C
Motherboard temperature: 36 C
CPU temperature: 32 - 37 C

Normalizing to an ambient room temperature of 27 C

#1. No thermal compound at all: Room ambient
temperature: 27
Correction
factor: + 0
CPU
idle temperature = 32 C
CPU
and SETI@home = 50 C

#2. RadioShack zinc oxide/silicone, 276-1372: Room ambient temperature:
26 C
Correction
factor: + 1 C
CPU
idle temperature = 26 C
CPU
and SETI@home = 31 C to 37 C

#3. Alpha supplied thermal grease: Room ambient
temperature: 24 C
Correction
factor: + 3 C
CPU
idle temperature = 28 C
CPU
and SETI@home = 32 C - 38 C

#4. Land 'o Lakes unsalted butter (71% butterfat): Room ambient
temperature: 26 C
Correction
factor: +1 C
CPU
idle temperature = 27 C
CPU
and SETI@home = 33 C - 41 C

#5. Arctic Silver for small contact areas: Room ambient
temperature: 25 C
Correction
factor: + 2 C
CPU
idle temperature = 30 C
CPU
and SETI@home = 34 C - 39 C


#1. 32 C / 50 C
#2. 26 C / 34 C
#3. 28 C / 35 C
#4. 27 C / 37 C
#5. 30 C / 37.5 C

Ranked by average of low and high CPU temperature for SETI@home:

#2, #3, #4, #5, #1

Ranked by CPU idle temperature:

#2, #4, #3, # 5, #1

Overall rank from best to worst.

#2. RadioShack zinc oxide, 276-1372: CPU running SETI@home 31 C to 37 C
normalized
#3. Alpha supplied thermal grease: CPU running SETI@home 32 C to
38 C normalized
#4. Land o' Lakes unsalted butter: CPU running SETI@home 33 C to
41 C normalized
#5. Arctic Silver for small contact areas: CPU running SETI@home 34 C to
39 C normalized
#1. No thermal compound: CPU running SETI@home 50 C
normalized


Now to see if this experiment gives repeatable results.

Unfortunately, unable to locate Marmite, and no store here will admit to
stock the stuff.

October 11, 2000
11:03 PM
Miami, Florida USA
Phil Weldon

*** test results end ***

Phil Weldon





"Fishface" <invalid@ddress.ok?> wrote in message
news:%ot3j.49174$Xg.9176@trnddc06...
| Phil Weldon wrote:
|
| > I found my E4300 heatspreader to be flat and smooth, and the
| > Intel retail, boxed, stock heatsink/fan was pretty good also.
|
| The first and only Intel HSF I checked looked flat, but was distorted
| from pressing the copper center into the aluminum. This made it
| high along the outside edge. Since I did not have a piece of glass
| narrow enough to lap it, I sc****d around the outside edge with a
| razor blade instead. I think might have helped, maybe! Anyway, I'd
| check it if I were you. The E2160 has an all aluminum HSF.
|
| Arctic Silver has interesting paste application instructions for
| various processors:
|
| http://www.arcticsilver.com/instructions.htm
|
|

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:19:10 -0500, Phil Weldon <not.disclosed@example.com> wrote:
: Interesting to note that 'Arctic Silver' seems to be moving away from
: thermal compounds that contain silver particles.

Have they announced something new? A lot of other folks are trying to
get in this game, this year we have what, Arctic Cooling's MX2,
Thermalright's gunk, a Zalman nail polish, a Tuniq compound, the
liquid metal mercury like muck, a whole plethora of paste, a
cornucopia of cream.

I'm with you on the snake oil part, I have a couple of big tubes of
the cheap ceramique and that seem to get the heat from the spreader
onto the heat sink. But then again I'm still battling with what
should be a simple matter of moving enough room temperature air into a
case to keep it from being a convection oven!

OK, The 4500 is here. One last plea after looking at the funky 3 stripes

Do I go with the Intel tape or apply compound instead?


bob


"Howard Goldstein" <hgoldste@mpcs.com> wrote in message
news:1196374466.79234@news.queue.to...
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:19:10 -0500, Phil Weldon
> <not.disclosed@example.com> wrote:
> : Interesting to note that 'Arctic Silver' seems to be moving away from
> : thermal compounds that contain silver particles.
>
> Have they announced something new? A lot of other folks are trying to
> get in this game, this year we have what, Arctic Cooling's MX2,
> Thermalright's gunk, a Zalman nail polish, a Tuniq compound, the
> liquid metal mercury like muck, a whole plethora of paste, a
> cornucopia of cream.
>
> I'm with you on the snake oil part, I have a couple of big tubes of
> the cheap ceramique and that seem to get the heat from the spreader
> onto the heat sink. But then again I'm still battling with what
> should be a simple matter of moving enough room temperature air into a
> case to keep it from being a convection oven!