Battery recalibrate ideas

"htnakirs" <htnakirs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:57b9c901-f6e7-4fe3-907e-0a2e82ec54d3@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
>
>> 1) Battery is 3 years old
>>
>> 2) Battery is left in the laptop 24/7
>>
>> 3) Laptop will only run 10 minutes on battery and shutdown
>>
>> If the answer is yes to all in the above, regardless of the power meter
>> reading, your battery is shot. >
>> --
>> Bill
>> Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
>> Windows XP SP2
>
>
> The answer to the last question is NO, in my case. Eventhough the
> meter shows critical level after 10 mins, the battery will support the
> laptop for well over an hour - the LED will blink, but the laptop
> continues till the battery dies and the laptop shuts down. So this is
> not a question of the Li cell losing its capacity, rather the onboard
> circuitry going bonkers.
>
> But, from the response it seems there is no routine to recalibrate the
> onboard circuitry. I guess I'll have to use it this way till the
> battery loses capacity.
>
> By the way, how frequently would you suggest that the battery should
> be removed to prolong it's life?

----------

The symptoms that you post are consistent with an ageing battery. As the
battery ages, the internal resistance of the cells rises. As it is called
upon to deliver current, the terminal voltage of the battery falls more than
it should do. Various bits of circuitry interpret this as a battery short
on available capacity. That it isn't really short on such capacity manifast
itself by continuing to run. It may fail to reboot though depending on how
much capacity there really is left.

The battery should be removed whenever the laptop is connected to AC, except
when charging the battery. The battery is best charged when the laptop is
off to avoid unnecessily heating it up.

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:hck4ib$8gb$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> In news:57b9c901-f6e7-4fe3-907e-0a2e82ec54d3@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com,
> htnakirs typed on Sun, 1 Nov 2009 05:31:15 -0800 (PST):
>>> 1) Battery is 3 years old
>>>
>>> 2) Battery is left in the laptop 24/7
>>>
>>> 3) Laptop will only run 10 minutes on battery and shutdown
>>>
>>> If the answer is yes to all in the above, regardless of the power
>>> meter reading, your battery is shot. >
>>
>> The answer to the last question is NO, in my case. Eventhough the
>> meter shows critical level after 10 mins, the battery will support the
>> laptop for well over an hour - the LED will blink, but the laptop
>> continues till the battery dies and the laptop shuts down. So this is
>> not a question of the Li cell losing its capacity, rather the onboard
>> circuitry going bonkers.
>>
>> But, from the response it seems there is no routine to recalibrate the
>> onboard circuitry. I guess I'll have to use it this way till the
>> battery loses capacity.
>
> Okay. Which battery program are you using? The windows one, or another
> one? And I would be curious to know what something like BattStat v0.98
> tells you.
>
> http://users.rcn.com/tmtalpey/BattStat/
>

Be aware that BattStat, good though it is, doesn't always interface reliably
with all battery controllers. According to BattStat, my laptop takes a mere
26 MW from the battery (yes that MegaWatts folks).

In news:4aeeabeb$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net,
M.I.5¾ typed on Mon, 2 Nov 2009 09:53:17 -0000:

> Be aware that BattStat, good though it is, doesn't always interface
> reliably with all battery controllers. According to BattStat, my
> laptop takes a mere 26 MW from the battery (yes that MegaWatts folks).

Yes this is true. As BattStat reports that my Asus EeePCs are
using -2.1MW. Also the CPU temperature doesn't follow the one read from
eeectl. While sometimes they are close, they appear to be two different
sensors. As BattStat reading will rise faster from being ice cold. But
will usually be colder once the netbook is all warmed up.

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2

"M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in
news:4aeeaa11$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:

>
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:hci8hu$506$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> And, as I have said before, there was a thread on this subject on
>> this board a number of years ago, it went on for 6 months, thousands
>> of posts from hundreds of contributors. It was overwhelming,
>> essentially everyone had Bill's experience (and Bill and I don't
>> agree on much !!): Leave a battery in laptop that is always plugged
>> in, and it destroys the battery over 6 to 24 months. There may be
>> some exceptions, but that is the general rule. You can argue all you
>> want that it shouldn't be that way, and theoretically, you might even
>> be right. But the overwhelming evidence of laptop users is .... that
>> this is the way that it is. And reality beats theory every time.
>>
>
> Larry's track record on battery related postings is pretty abysmal.
> Best to ignore him.
>
>
>

Yes, be very careful that 50 years of electronic experience, including
everything to do with battery powered equipment from Nickel-Iron "Edison"
cells to Lithium-Polymer battery maintenance may rub off on you.....

Ignore him completely and listen to the mass posters just out of high
school.


--
Larry

In news:Xns9CB79B5361559noonehomecom@74.209.131.13,
Larry typed on Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:16:07 +0000:
> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in
> news:4aeeaa11$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:
>
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:hci8hu$506$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> And, as I have said before, there was a thread on this subject on
>>> this board a number of years ago, it went on for 6 months, thousands
>>> of posts from hundreds of contributors. It was overwhelming,
>>> essentially everyone had Bill's experience (and Bill and I don't
>>> agree on much !!): Leave a battery in laptop that is always plugged
>>> in, and it destroys the battery over 6 to 24 months. There may be
>>> some exceptions, but that is the general rule. You can argue all
>>> you want that it shouldn't be that way, and theoretically, you
>>> might even be right. But the overwhelming evidence of laptop users
>>> is .... that this is the way that it is. And reality beats theory
>>> every time.
>>
>> Larry's track record on battery related postings is pretty abysmal.
>> Best to ignore him.
>
> Yes, be very careful that 50 years of electronic experience, including
> everything to do with battery powered equipment from Nickel-Iron
> "Edison" cells to Lithium-Polymer battery maintenance may rub off on
> you.....
>
> Ignore him completely and listen to the mass posters just out of high
> school. -- Larry

Maybe this URL may help. It seems accurate as far as I can tell.

http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm

Which says that lithium batteries will last longer if they are operated
between 15°C (59°F) to 50°C (122°F). And by 70ºC (158°F) the threat is
really from thermal runaway. Poof!

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2

This "mass poster just out of High School" is in his 60's, got his ham
radio license in 1963, was operating 50,000 watt broadcast radio and TV
stations by himself with a 1st class FCC license in 1965, has a BSEE, US
Patents and copyrights, over 30 years of experience in the computer
industry with a number of PC and laptop manufacturers, is A+ and
Network+ and Microsoft certified.

And thinks you are full of it.


Larry wrote:

>
> Yes, be very careful that 50 years of electronic experience, including
> everything to do with battery powered equipment from Nickel-Iron "Edison"
> cells to Lithium-Polymer battery maintenance may rub off on you.....
>
> Ignore him completely and listen to the mass posters just out of high
> school.
>
>

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:hcngj2$i5f$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> In news:Xns9CB79B5361559noonehomecom@74.209.131.13,
> Larry typed on Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:16:07 +0000:
>> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:4aeeaa11$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:
>>
>>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hci8hu$506$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> And, as I have said before, there was a thread on this subject on
>>>> this board a number of years ago, it went on for 6 months, thousands
>>>> of posts from hundreds of contributors. It was overwhelming,
>>>> essentially everyone had Bill's experience (and Bill and I don't
>>>> agree on much !!): Leave a battery in laptop that is always plugged
>>>> in, and it destroys the battery over 6 to 24 months. There may be
>>>> some exceptions, but that is the general rule. You can argue all
>>>> you want that it shouldn't be that way, and theoretically, you
>>>> might even be right. But the overwhelming evidence of laptop users
>>>> is .... that this is the way that it is. And reality beats theory
>>>> every time.
>>>
>>> Larry's track record on battery related postings is pretty abysmal.
>>> Best to ignore him.
>>
>> Yes, be very careful that 50 years of electronic experience, including
>> everything to do with battery powered equipment from Nickel-Iron
>> "Edison" cells to Lithium-Polymer battery maintenance may rub off on
>> you.....
>>
>> Ignore him completely and listen to the mass posters just out of high
>> school. -- Larry
>
> Maybe this URL may help. It seems accurate as far as I can tell.
>
> http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm
>
> Which says that lithium batteries will last longer if they are operated
> between 15°C (59°F) to 50°C (122°F). And by 70ºC (158°F) the threat is
> really from thermal runaway. Poof!
>

50°C???!!!?? That will kill a Lithiom ion in no time at all.

"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CB79B5361559noonehomecom@74.209.131.13...
> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in
> news:4aeeaa11$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:
>
>>
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:hci8hu$506$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> And, as I have said before, there was a thread on this subject on
>>> this board a number of years ago, it went on for 6 months, thousands
>>> of posts from hundreds of contributors. It was overwhelming,
>>> essentially everyone had Bill's experience (and Bill and I don't
>>> agree on much !!): Leave a battery in laptop that is always plugged
>>> in, and it destroys the battery over 6 to 24 months. There may be
>>> some exceptions, but that is the general rule. You can argue all you
>>> want that it shouldn't be that way, and theoretically, you might even
>>> be right. But the overwhelming evidence of laptop users is .... that
>>> this is the way that it is. And reality beats theory every time.
>>>
>>
>> Larry's track record on battery related postings is pretty abysmal.
>> Best to ignore him.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yes, be very careful that 50 years of electronic experience, including
> everything to do with battery powered equipment from Nickel-Iron "Edison"
> cells to Lithium-Polymer battery maintenance may rub off on you.....
>
> Ignore him completely and listen to the mass posters just out of high
> school.
>

Your posts regularly demonstrate that in 50 years you have learnt nothing at
all about the technology.

>
> Okay. Which battery program are you using? The windows one, or another
> one? And I would be curious to know what something like BattStat v0.98
> tells you.
>
> http://users.rcn.com/tmtalpey/BattStat/
>

I used XP and Linux and the onboard battery meter behaviour is
consistent.

>
> It is best to leave it out whenever you are not using it on battery
> power or charging it. Although you have had 3 years out of it and that
> is doing well if it was left in. As this suggests the battery doesn't
> get too warm too deteriorate very much. Do you believe this is true?
>
> --
> Bill
> Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
> Windows XP SP2

Never touched the battery to test it's temps. But, definitely the
ambient temp would never have exceeded 30 deg C.

Thanks for all the help, to all.

I must say, I had half expected someone to say that freezing the
battery would help - as would "boosting". These seem to be the common
tips on youtube! Freezing is something that I intend to do soon. Don't
see the harm in it. I'll inform if this causes any change in battery
meter accuracy.

In
news:f1399b05-969b-4029-b99b-29e16f834026@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com,
htnakirs typed on Tue, 3 Nov 2009 06:30:11 -0800 (PST):
> Never touched the battery to test it's temps. But, definitely the
> ambient temp would never have exceeded 30 deg C.
>
> Thanks for all the help, to all.
>
> I must say, I had half expected someone to say that freezing the
> battery would help - as would "boosting". These seem to be the common
> tips on youtube! Freezing is something that I intend to do soon. Don't
> see the harm in it. I'll inform if this causes any change in battery
> meter accuracy.

Well the lithium is warmer than ambient when charging. Also charging
while the computer is in use increases it even higher. So it helps to
only charge when the machine is powered down.

Freezer? I never have seen any research to show this helps at all. Also
some claim that freezing actually hurts them. I haven't personally
tested this, so I don't have much experience with freezing lithiums.
Those old zinc batteries were helped by freezing, but I know of no other
battery type that freezing actually helps.

Refrigerator? This is debated a lot. I have kept non-chargeable lithiums
in the frig and it seems to help in my experience. As they are lasting
10+ years this way. Although the shelf life is also 10 years. So it is
hard to say if it is really helping. Although it doesn't seem to hurt.

I don't store rechargeable lithiums in the frig, but in a drawer. And
they generally last 10 years or more this way. So in the frig is
probably ok if you want to do this. In the freezer, well that might not
be such a great idea.

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2