I was thinking about getting a UPS. The main power is pretty stable around
here, so I only need it for those occasional moments where the power
flickers off for no more than a minute. So, I was thinking about buying the
cheapest UPS at the local store, which is the same model found here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842101344
I would like to connect my 550 watt power supply from my computer, and my
19" LCD monitor. But I'm wondering if I can actually do damage to my
components if I overload the UPS with too many power hungry components.
If the UPS was overloaded, would the computer and monitor connected to it
just shut off, the same as it would if the main power supply dipped below a
adequate level? Or are there other dangers to consider?
Don't buy the cheapest. With cheap, you get junk, no matter what the brand. APC
does not call their cheap line of UPS gear "APC Cheap". Dell does not call its
Vostro computers "Dell Cheap". That would be truth in advertising, and we can't
have that in our go-go-go-sell-sell-sell advertising obsessed economy. Actually,
WE are not obsessed. The goddam businesses are.
Your computer probably does not get close to the rated 550 watts of its power
supply unless you have it tricked out with the hottest CPU, 512MB graphics card,
maximum memory and four hard drives all being accessed at the same time with
some sort of graphics-intensive database search.
The 350ES is intended for much lower wattage systems than yours, like maybe an
entry-level Vostro. It may not provide adequate protection for the power spike
that occur from lightning storms and the like. The APC BR900 would probably be
better suited to the equipment you have. DO NOT EVER attach a laser printer to
a UPS.
My system (not fully tricked out with 4 drives, mag wheels and a racoon tail)
has a 350w max power supply and an 18" LCD. I have used an older APC Back UPS
500 for much the same reasons that you have stated... Ben Myers
>I was thinking about getting a UPS. The main power is pretty stable around
>here, so I only need it for those occasional moments where the power
>flickers off for no more than a minute. So, I was thinking about buying the
>cheapest UPS at the local store, which is the same model found here:
>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842101344
>
>I would like to connect my 550 watt power supply from my computer, and my
>19" LCD monitor. But I'm wondering if I can actually do damage to my
>components if I overload the UPS with too many power hungry components.
>
>If the UPS was overloaded, would the computer and monitor connected to it
>just shut off, the same as it would if the main power supply dipped below a
>adequate level? Or are there other dangers to consider?
Ben Myers <ben_myers_spam_me_not@charter.net> wrote in
news:75vbc4tfajb36kpqrimhq1kagd5cjig00u@4ax.com:
> Your computer probably does not get close to the rated 550 watts of
> its power supply unless you have it tricked out with the hottest CPU,
> 512MB graphics card, maximum memory and four hard drives all being
> accessed at the same time with some sort of graphics-intensive
> database search.
I've got an a1130n Pavilion, with a few extra components.
> It may not provide adequate protection
> for the power spike that occur from lightning storms and the like.
Couldn't I just run it plug the UPS into a better rated surge protector?
Besides, I would rather replace a fried SP than a UPS.
> The APC BR900 would probably be better suited to the equipment you
> have.
>I was thinking about getting a UPS. The main power is pretty stable around
>here, so I only need it for those occasional moments where the power
>flickers off for no more than a minute. So, I was thinking about buying the
>cheapest UPS at the local store, which is the same model found here:
>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842101344
>
>I would like to connect my 550 watt power supply from my computer, and my
>19" LCD monitor. But I'm wondering if I can actually do damage to my
>components if I overload the UPS with too many power hungry components.
>
>If the UPS was overloaded, would the computer and monitor connected to it
>just shut off, the same as it would if the main power supply dipped below a
>adequate level? Or are there other dangers to consider?
I would get a UPS that is rated for at least twice the load. For your
system I would think a 900 VA would be fine. Some power strips with
surge protection will not work with the ups. The UPS will give a
power fault due to the way many of the cheap surge protectors are
made. UPS's are so much less now that they are a good buy. Think of
them as insurance.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK http://www.rusling.org
ShadowTek <FAKE@email.address> wrote:
> I was thinking about getting a UPS. The main power is pretty stable around
> here, so I only need it for those occasional moments where the power
> flickers off for no more than a minute. So, I was thinking about buying the
> cheapest UPS at the local store, which is the same model found here:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842101344
that thing it too small to be useful for anything other than a laptop.
Unfortunately, pretty much all small UPSes are crap, but I'd still suggest
avoiding anything no name or from tripp-lite, anything bigger from
APC would be passable.
Whatever specs they claim are generally bull**** to start with, and don't
take into account that the batteries will age and lose capacity (runtime)
and small batteries in small units tend to be utter garbage to start with.
A UPS that can run for 3 seconds before shutting down is pretty useless.
Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in news:ga63rd$mne$2
@reader1.panix.com:
> A UPS that can run for 3 seconds before shutting down is pretty useless.
But that's all I need it for. As I said, the main power supply around here
is pretty stable, and I only need something for those occassional few
seconds of power interruption.
As others have said, you don't want to plug a UPS into a surge protector.
The cheaper UPS may be able to run your system for a minute or two, or it may
crap out from the overload. IMHO, it is simply not worth throwing money at it.
To save on the non-trivial shipping cost for a heavy UPS, why not troll around
at Circuit City, Best Buy, Frys, Staples and/or Officemax to see if you can get
a BR900 at a price comparable to Newegg, but without the shipping? I've found
that the mass market stores compete pretty well on price with the better mail
order outfits. And you avoid the shipping cost, sometimes paying state sales
tax instead.
Choosing between the cheaper UPS and nothing, I would choose nothing as being
just as reliable for less cash outlay... Ben Myers
>Ben Myers <ben_myers_spam_me_not@charter.net> wrote in
>news:75vbc4tfajb36kpqrimhq1kagd5cjig00u@4ax.com :
>
>> Your computer probably does not get close to the rated 550 watts of
>> its power supply unless you have it tricked out with the hottest CPU,
>> 512MB graphics card, maximum memory and four hard drives all being
>> accessed at the same time with some sort of graphics-intensive
>> database search.
>
>I've got an a1130n Pavilion, with a few extra components.
>
>
>> It may not provide adequate protection
>> for the power spike that occur from lightning storms and the like.
>
>Couldn't I just run it plug the UPS into a better rated surge protector?
>
>Besides, I would rather replace a fried SP than a UPS.
>
>
>> The APC BR900 would probably be better suited to the equipment you
>> have.
>
>It looks like the surge rating is even lower for that model!
>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...1138&Tpk=br900
>
>That's $130 + $30 shipping. I don't have that kind of money to toss right
>now, so if I can't get by with less, then I'll just have to do without.
>
>Would the cheaper UPS that I mentioned not even run my PC and monitor at
>all?
>
>If I have to choose between that cheaper UPS and nothing, would nothing
>just be the better option?
>
>
>> DO NOT EVER attach a laser printer to a UPS.
>
>Yeah, I had read about that.
>
>I don't need any peripherals connected to the battery anyway, just the PC
>and monitor.
On Sep 9, 7:18*pm, ShadowTek <F...@EMAIL.ADDRESS> wrote:
> Others have said not to do so with a "cheap" SP, but what about a good one?
> Even that BR900 only had a surge protection of about 400 joules, so
> wouldn't it be better to plug it into a power supply that offers at least
> 2,500 joules of protection?
Somehow, you believe a SP will stop or absorb what three miles of
sky could not. SP don't work that way.
Any surge protection that works at the computer is already inside
the computer. So that internal computer protection is not
overwhelmed, divert surge to where its energy is absorbed harmlessly.
That means the surge must not enter the building. That means
protection is earth ground. Why is protection inside the UPS so
small? Near zero protection is sufficient to claim surge protection
to the naive. But it is still near zero - all but non-existent -
protection.
Somehow, you believe a protector stops or absorbs surges. Will the
less than 1000 joules that might see the surge absorb the surge's tens
or hundreds of thousands of joules? Of course not. Absorbing or
stopping surges is not what a surge protector does.
Assume your UPS plugs into a SP power strip which in turn connects
to an AC wall receptacle. Now disconnect the UPS from the power strip
and plug the UPS directly into the other wall receptacle. The
"protector circuit" is now unchanged. Circuit would be changed if it
worked as you have assumed.
Break open a SP. Notice its AC plug connects to power strip
receptacles directly. Nothing is between a power strip plug and its
receptacles to stop or absorb surges. It is a direct connection
(except for the 15 amp safety fuse).
Any SP that fails during a surge did not provide protection. Surge
protection means a SP remains functional after the surge. Why does a
power strip surge protector fail during a surge? It is not designed to
provide effective surge protection. Failing makes you feel it
provided surge protection when protection inside the computer actually
provided that protection.
UPS is for power when AC mains fail - those few seconds of power
interruption - so that data is protected. Protection means a 'whole
house' protector makes a short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to
earth. Any protector that might absorb a trivial 400 or 1000 joules
is near zero protection. But it is fails, then you might promote the
protection myth. Will that protector block or absorb what three miles
of sky could not? That, apparently, is your belief.
> Will that protector block or absorb what three miles
> of sky could not? That, apparently, is your belief.
I never said anything about a surge protector being able to protect against
a direct lightning strike. The idea that I did is, apparently, -your-
belief.
w_tom wrote:
> On Sep 9, 7:18 pm, ShadowTek <F...@EMAIL.ADDRESS> wrote:
>> Others have said not to do so with a "cheap" SP, but what about a good one?
>> Even that BR900 only had a surge protection of about 400 joules, so
>> wouldn't it be better to plug it into a power supply that offers at least
>> 2,500 joules of protection?
..
The best information on surges and surge protection I have seen is at:
<http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/LightningGuide_FINALpublishedversion_May051.pdf>
- "How to protect your house and its contents from lightning: IEEE guide
for surge protection of equipment connected to AC power and
communication circuits" published by the IEEE in 2005 (the IEEE is the
major organization of electrical and electronic engineers in the US).
And also: http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/p.../surgesfnl.pdf
- "NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to protect the
appliances in your home" published by the US National Institute of
Standards and Technology in 2001
The IEEE guide is aimed at those with some technical background. The
NIST guide is aimed at the unwashed masses.
..
> Somehow, you believe a SP will stop or absorb what three miles of
> sky could not. SP don't work that way.
..
Poor w__ can't figure out how plug-in suppressors work.
The IEEE guide explains plug-in suppressors work by clamping (limiting)
the voltage on all wires (signal and power) to the common ground at the
suppressor. Plug-in suppressors do not work primarily by earthing or
absorbing or stopping. The guide explains earthing occurs elsewhere.
(Read the guide starting pdf page 40).
Note that all interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the same
plug-in suppressor, or interconnecting wires need to go through the
suppressor. External connections, like phone, also need to go through
the suppressor. Connecting all wiring through the suppressor prevents
damaging voltages between power and signal wires. These multiport
suppressors are described in both guides. (That also applies to UPSs
that provide surge protection.)
According to NIST guide, US insurance information indicates equipment
most frequently damaged by lightning is
computers with a modem connection
TVs, VCRs and similar equipment (presumably with cable TV
connections).
All can be damaged by high voltages between power and signal wires.
..
> That means
> protection is earth ground.
..
w_ has a religious belief (immune from challenge) that surge protection
must use earthing. Thus in his view plug-in suppressors (which are not
well earthed) can not possibly work. The IEEE guide explains plug–in
suppressors do not work primarily by earthing.
..
> Somehow, you believe a protector stops or absorbs surges.
..
Only w_ believes plug-in suppressors protect by stopping or absorbing a
surge.
Both the IEEE and NIST guides say plug-in suppressors are effective.
w_ has never produced a source that agrees with him that plug–in
suppressors are NOT effective.
..
> Any protector that might absorb a trivial 400 or 1000 joules
> is near zero protection.
..
Plug-in suppressors do not protect by absorbing a surge. (They do absorb
some energy in the process of protecting.) The amount of energy that can
reach a plug-in suppressor is surprisingly small because of the
impedance of the branch circuit for a surge, which is short duration and
essentially high frequency.
It is preferable to have all plug-in surge protection in one place - not
split the clamping between adjacent units. Suppression in a UPS will
produce some voltage drop in the line cord from the UPS to a plug-in
suppressor. That could be a problem is phone wires are protected through
the plug-in suppressor. Other than that there is no reason not to plug a
UPS into a plug-in suppressor.
Plug-in suppressors are readily available with high ratings. High
ratings are harder to find in UPSs.
Any suppressor (US) should be listed under UL1449. That is harder to
find in UPSs. ("Complies with" UL1449 is not necessarily the same.)
Choosing the right UPS 
Linear Mode
