pc_whocares wrote:
> Wikkipedia notes that many ATI cards have S-video in and out, also
> known as VIVO
>
> @@@@
>
> I'd really like to get a PCIe video card for my new Pavilion computer
> that can
>
> --> simultaneously output to two monitors and SVIDEO out for a TV
>
> --> have SVIDEO in
>
> All of the Radeon 3600 series cards seem to have this connector, but
> no mention is made of this capability:
>
> I'd like to know of any cards that fit this capability. I'm not a
> gamer. Picture quality on all ports is more important that gaming
> performance.
>
> tanks
>
> pc
According to my manual for the HIS HD 3650 (ATI) video card, the DIN
connector between the DVI-I outputs is a TV/HDTV OUTPUT ONLY.
Again, according to the manual, this is true for all the HD 3600 series
cards.
pc_whocares wrote:
> Wikkipedia notes that many ATI cards have S-video in and out, also
> known as VIVO
>
> @@@@
>
> I'd really like to get a PCIe video card for my new Pavilion computer
> that can
>
> --> simultaneously output to two monitors and SVIDEO out for a TV
>
> --> have SVIDEO in
>
> All of the Radeon 3600 series cards seem to have this connector, but
> no mention is made of this capability:
>
> I'd like to know of any cards that fit this capability. I'm not a
> gamer. Picture quality on all ports is more important that gaming
> performance.
>
> tanks
>
> pc
afaik, s video connectors on most cards are OUT only.
On Jul 27, 4:54 pm, ushere <removethis.leslie.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> pc_whocares wrote:
> > Wikkipedia notes that many ATI cards have S-video in and out, also
> > known as VIVO
>
> > @@@@
>
> > I'd really like to get a PCIe video card for my new Pavilion computer
> > that can
>
> > --> simultaneously output to two monitors and SVIDEO out for a TV
>
> > --> have SVIDEO in
>
> > All of the Radeon 3600 series cards seem to have this connector, but
> > no mention is made of this capability:
>
> > I'd like to know of any cards that fit this capability. I'm not a
> > gamer. Picture quality on all ports is more important that gaming
> > performance.
>
> > tanks
>
> > pc
>
> afaik, s video connectors on most cards are OUT only.
Wikipedia noted otherwise. And, they do show the VIVO connector on
most of the ATI cards.
pcmacd wrote:
> On Jul 27, 4:54 pm, ushere <removethis.leslie.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> pc_whocares wrote:
>>> Wikkipedia notes that many ATI cards have S-video in and out, also
>>> known as VIVO
>>> @@@@
>>> I'd really like to get a PCIe video card for my new Pavilion computer
>>> that can
>>> --> simultaneously output to two monitors and SVIDEO out for a TV
>>> --> have SVIDEO in
>>> All of the Radeon 3600 series cards seem to have this connector, but
>>> no mention is made of this capability:
>>> I'd like to know of any cards that fit this capability. I'm not a
>>> gamer. Picture quality on all ports is more important that gaming
>>> performance.
>>> tanks
>>> pc
>> afaik, s video connectors on most cards are OUT only.
>
> Wikipedia noted otherwise. And, they do show the VIVO connector on
> most of the ATI cards.
i live and learn, sorry. i wonder however what quality these cards offer?
pc_whocares wrote:
> Wikkipedia notes that many ATI cards have S-video in and out, also
> known as VIVO
>
> @@@@
>
> I'd really like to get a PCIe video card for my new Pavilion computer
> that can
>
> --> simultaneously output to two monitors and SVIDEO out for a TV
>
> --> have SVIDEO in
>
> All of the Radeon 3600 series cards seem to have this connector, but
> no mention is made of this capability:
>
> I'd like to know of any cards that fit this capability. I'm not a
> gamer. Picture quality on all ports is more important that gaming
> performance.
>
> tanks
>
> pc
If a card had VIVO, it would tend to show in the documentation.
The word "VIVO" would be prominently displayed, as it costs
money to provide.
A dead giveaway, would be a picture of the box contents for the
video card, showing a VIVO "hydra" cable. Not just any cable
is VIVO, as VIVO has more connectors than say a component output
cable or component plus s-video plus composite (all of which are
outputs only). Some VIVO cards had a mini breakout box, instead
of the "hydra" cable.
I tried a search on the Newegg.com site, using their "Advanced" search
engine on the desktop video cards page. Two cards were returned, when
VIVO was entered as a criterion. The two cards are obsolete and haven't been
in stock for some time.
This is my understanding of the hardware for a VIVO card. I've broken
the diagram down into two pieces, to make it easier to understand
what happened to VIVO. The upper section is for input. The lower
section covers output.
analog digital
Video_In -------- Capture_chip ------- GPU
I'll describe the output side first. The GPUs tend to be dual head,
meaning they have two datapaths. The datapaths can be connected to
the outputs, as a function of what is detected as being connected
to the faceplate. You could drive a DVI monitor and a composite
connection to a TV set, for example, and that would use up the two
datapaths. You cannot drive three output options at the same time.
Rather than trust my drawing, you can look at an example here. This
document is rather slow to render, so be really really patient.
Go to PDF page 8 and see the figure "AVIVO display engine". The
figure will render just below the third paragraph.
That diagram doesn't explain everything, so the diagram is still
not enough to satisfy all questions. There are five items shown
on the right on page 8. The S-video, composite, component YPrPb
all come from the Xileon, so you cannot drive two independent video
screens from those at the same time. You could do DVI/DVI or
DVI/VGA or DVI/composite or VGA/composite, or DVI/YPrPb as examples.
Generally one of the outputs at least, has to be a DVI or VGA.
The DVC port does offer intriguing options, as you can connect an
external chip and take digital data from that port, and drive another
display type. But video card makers are not adventurous, as they'd have
to write a driver to make it worthwhile. And video card makers add no
value to the product, so this is outside their skill set. (For many
companies in the industry, it is a "copy/paste" business.)
The video input path on the GPU, takes the form of a digital interface
of some kind. It could be parallel in form, or even serial. There
aren't datasheets for GPUs as a rule, so there is no way to be sure
what is used. A separate chip is connected to that digital interface,
to allow analog video to be input.
In the article here, the ATI Theatre chip is what converts analog
video input signals, into a form where they can be connected to a
digital input port on the GPU.
There is an example here, of an Nvidia reference card, with the
capture chip present. The Philips SAA7115 can be seen towards the
lower left corner of the board, and handles video inputs like
composite or S-video.
Now, why did I go to all this trouble ? To point out, that
they have to add a chip for the "VI" part of VIVO, and for
the current generation, that option seems to have disappeared.
If you went to Ebay, and looked at previous generations, you
could find a card with the cables and with the capture chip
in place. At least, by using the Newegg search engine,
VIVO appears to be an obsolete concept.
You can purchase separate video capture cards. For example,
the ATI Theatre chip is available on standalone add-in cards
for the PC. As are products from Hauppauge and the like.
The cheapest start at $20 and go up. Software for them, is the
weak link.
At this point, you're probably ready to point out "but this
card has a Mini-DIN connector on the faceplate". This page
explains that Mini-DIN connectors have different numbers of
pins on them. The "VIVO" version of Mini-DIN, has 9 pins
according to this page. If you were to look in detail at
the DIN on current generation cards, chances are there are
not 9 pins on them, but some lesser number. The lesser number
supports video output only, and not necessarily all output
type are supported. For example, I don't have component
output on my current video card, just S-video and composite.
If there is a "wave of the future", this is as close as you'll
get to an example. This card accepts HDMI input from the
new video cameras. The Intensity Pro model (right hand column)
supports analog formats as well. Since cards like this have
to obey the objectives of the DMCA, the card cannot capture
just anything you can connect to it. So expect stealing
content with a card like this, to be difficult for a
normal customer. Many devices have means of signaling
"do not copy" on their output connector, and cards like this
are supposed to play by the rules. What is really unfortunate,
is there is a better version of the main chip on this card,
but for those legal reasons, the designers couldn't put that
chip on the card (because you might be tempted to steal
high definition content with it).
On Jul 27, 8:39 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> pc_whocares wrote:
> > Wikkipedia notes that many ATI cards have S-video in and out, also
> > known as VIVO
>
> > @@@@
>
> > I'd really like to get a PCIe video card for my new Pavilion computer
> > that can
>
> > --> simultaneously output to two monitors and SVIDEO out for a TV
>
> > --> have SVIDEO in
>
> > All of the Radeon 3600 series cards seem to have this connector, but
> > no mention is made of this capability:
>
> > I'd like to know of any cards that fit this capability. I'm not a
> > gamer. Picture quality on all ports is more important that gaming
> > performance.
>
> > tanks
>
> > pc
>
> If a card had VIVO, it would tend to show in the documentation.
> The word "VIVO" would be prominently displayed, as it costs
> money to provide.
>
> A dead giveaway, would be a picture of the box contents for the
> video card, showing a VIVO "hydra" cable. Not just any cable
> is VIVO, as VIVO has more connectors than say a component output
> cable or component plus s-video plus composite (all of which are
> outputs only). Some VIVO cards had a mini breakout box, instead
> of the "hydra" cable.
>
> I tried a search on the Newegg.com site, using their "Advanced" search
> engine on the desktop video cards page. Two cards were returned, when
> VIVO was entered as a criterion. The two cards are obsolete and haven't been
> in stock for some time.
>
> This is my understanding of the hardware for a VIVO card. I've broken
> the diagram down into two pieces, to make it easier to understand
> what happened to VIVO. The upper section is for input. The lower
> section covers output.
>
> analog digital
> Video_In -------- Capture_chip ------- GPU
>
> * S-video, composite, component
> GPU datapath ---* * DVI/VGA
> GPU datapath ---* * DVI/VGA
>
> Output Crossbar
>
> I'll describe the output side first. The GPUs tend to be dual head,
> meaning they have two datapaths. The datapaths can be connected to
> the outputs, as a function of what is detected as being connected
> to the faceplate. You could drive a DVI monitor and a composite
> connection to a TV set, for example, and that would use up the two
> datapaths. You cannot drive three output options at the same time.
>
> Rather than trust my drawing, you can look at an example here. This
> document is rather slow to render, so be really really patient.
> Go to PDF page 8 and see the figure "AVIVO display engine". The
> figure will render just below the third paragraph.
>
> http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1..._Family_Techno...
>
> That diagram doesn't explain everything, so the diagram is still
> not enough to satisfy all questions. There are five items shown
> on the right on page 8. The S-video, composite, component YPrPb
> all come from the Xileon, so you cannot drive two independent video
> screens from those at the same time. You could do DVI/DVI or
> DVI/VGA or DVI/composite or VGA/composite, or DVI/YPrPb as examples.
> Generally one of the outputs at least, has to be a DVI or VGA.
>
> The DVC port does offer intriguing options, as you can connect an
> external chip and take digital data from that port, and drive another
> display type. But video card makers are not adventurous, as they'd have
> to write a driver to make it worthwhile. And video card makers add no
> value to the product, so this is outside their skill set. (For many
> companies in the industry, it is a "copy/paste" business.)
>
> The video input path on the GPU, takes the form of a digital interface
> of some kind. It could be parallel in form, or even serial. There
> aren't datasheets for GPUs as a rule, so there is no way to be sure
> what is used. A separate chip is connected to that digital interface,
> to allow analog video to be input.
>
> In the article here, the ATI Theatre chip is what converts analog
> video input signals, into a form where they can be connected to a
> digital input port on the GPU.
>
> http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles...422&cid=3&pg=4
>
> There is an example here, of an Nvidia reference card, with the
> capture chip present. The Philips SAA7115 can be seen towards the
> lower left corner of the board, and handles video inputs like
> composite or S-video.
>
> http://www.ixbt.com/video2/images/re...scan-front.jpg
>
> SAA7115 is mentioned here as well, as supporting the "VI" part
> of VIVO.
>
> http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles...?cid=3&id=1459
>
> Now, why did I go to all this trouble ? To point out, that
> they have to add a chip for the "VI" part of VIVO, and for
> the current generation, that option seems to have disappeared.
> If you went to Ebay, and looked at previous generations, you
> could find a card with the cables and with the capture chip
> in place. At least, by using the Newegg search engine,
> VIVO appears to be an obsolete concept.
>
> You can purchase separate video capture cards. For example,
> the ATI Theatre chip is available on standalone add-in cards
> for the PC. As are products from Hauppauge and the like.
> The cheapest start at $20 and go up. Software for them, is the
> weak link.
>
> At this point, you're probably ready to point out "but this
> card has a Mini-DIN connector on the faceplate". This page
> explains that Mini-DIN connectors have different numbers of
> pins on them. The "VIVO" version of Mini-DIN, has 9 pins
> according to this page. If you were to look in detail at
> the DIN on current generation cards, chances are there are
> not 9 pins on them, but some lesser number. The lesser number
> supports video output only, and not necessarily all output
> type are supported. For example, I don't have component
> output on my current video card, just S-video and composite.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniDIN
>
> If there is a "wave of the future", this is as close as you'll
> get to an example. This card accepts HDMI input from the
> new video cameras. The Intensity Pro model (right hand column)
> supports analog formats as well. Since cards like this have
> to obey the objectives of the DMCA, the card cannot capture
> just anything you can connect to it. So expect stealing
> content with a card like this, to be difficult for a
> normal customer. Many devices have means of signaling
> "do not copy" on their output connector, and cards like this
> are supposed to play by the rules. What is really unfortunate,
> is there is a better version of the main chip on this card,
> but for those legal reasons, the designers couldn't put that
> chip on the card (because you might be tempted to steal
> high definition content with it).
>
> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/pro...ity/techspecs/
>
> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/dow...tensityPro.pdf
>
> HTH,
> Paul
"John Doe" <jdoe@usenetlove.invalid> wrote in message
news:YZbjk.18721$Ri.6433@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...
> pc_whocares <pc_whocares@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 27, 8:39 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>
>>> HTH,
>>> Paul
>>
>> Whoa! Thanks!
>
> lol
>
> Paul is from the homebuilt PC group.
>
Actually, Paul is a major resource to a number of NGs,
I always look for his posts at alt.comp.hardware.
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:g6jes2$v4l$1@aioe.org
This card accepts HDMI input from the
> new video cameras. The Intensity Pro model (right hand column) supports
> analog formats as well. Since cards like this
> have > to obey the objectives of the DMCA, the card cannot
> capture just anything you can connect to it. So expect stealing
> content with a card like this, to be difficult for a
> normal customer. Many devices have means of signaling
> "do not copy" on their output connector, and cards like
> this are supposed to play by the rules. What is really
> unfortunate, is there is a better version of the main chip on this
> card, but for those legal reasons, the designers couldn't put
> that chip on the card (because you might be tempted to steal
> high definition content with it).
Looking backwards we've had similar constraints in the audio realm.
When audio DAT first came out, the thought of digital copying of copyrighted
audio scared the producers completely to death.
But there was a trap door - "Professional uses" of digitally copied audio
were allowed.
The boundary line between consumer uses and professional use was set by
equipment price - copy-constrained "consumer" DAT and later on, CD-R
machines cost about half as much as "professional" machines that had no such
constraints.
Eventually, the water got really muddy because computers cut out a niche for
themselves as "professional" or unconstrained copiers, but for negligible
additional cost.
The final shoe that dropped for audio copying was when popular-priced
digital audio players and recorders achieved technical performance that was
such that there was no sonic penalty for copying operations that passed
through the analog domain. Preventing digital copying affected only
convenience, and not sound quality.
The issue of DVD digital-domain video copying became practically moot when
software that broke DVD video security locks became more-or-less freely
downloadable. This happened pretty quickly after the DVD was introduced.
Many are waiting for the same thing to happen with Blu Ray.
OTA HD video digital domain reception, storage and copying hardware has been
on the market for more than a year, and is pretty economical and usable.
Cable and satellite companies are pushing digital domain time-shifting
hardware, so tens if not 100s of thousands of digital domain copiers that
lack only a slot for recordable media are now in the hands of consumers.
Hauppauge is selling an analog-domain HD copier. I don't know how noticeable
its artifacts are. Eventually technology will advance as far with video as
it has with audio, and a quick bounce through the analog domain will not be
a big quality issue.
I hear that equipment for spoofing HDCP is being sold, so digital-domain
copiers like those from Black Magic can probably be used with so-called
copy-protected media.
And finally, how long before a piece of software like DVD43.EXE will be
available for Blu Ray?
VIVO with DUAL HDMI PCI Express 
Linear Mode
