Flickering HD light; erratic high CPU usage; stuttering; what is it?
HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop running Windows XP Home SP2
A few days ago, I don't know what precipitated it, the machine started
a jerky behavior. Let's say when playing videos, the sound and pic
would momentarily stop several times a minute. The hard drive light
would light up at the same time, flickering. And it seems the CPU
usage would go to a hundred percent off and on. Because of this
hesitating, everything runs slow.
I'm running AVG free and it's up to date. I also have windows
defender.
I tried using scandisk (via device manager) and it found several
errors and fixed them. But still the problem persists.
I don't know if this is a soft or hard problem. But there has to be a
way to isolate what the problem is.
Re: Flickering HD light; erratic high CPU usage; stuttering; what is it?
"Nehmo" <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote
> HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop running Windows XP Home SP2
>
> A few days ago, I don't know what precipitated it, the machine started
> a jerky behavior. Let's say when playing videos, the sound and pic
> would momentarily stop several times a minute. The hard drive light
> would light up at the same time, flickering. And it seems the CPU
> usage would go to a hundred percent off and on. Because of this
> hesitating, everything runs slow.
>
> I'm running AVG free and it's up to date. I also have windows
> defender.
>
> I tried using scandisk (via device manager) and it found several
> errors and fixed them. But still the problem persists.
>
> I don't know if this is a soft or hard problem. But there has to be a
> way to isolate what the problem is.
Have you tried a system restore to before the issue started? What does task
manager show as the process maxing out the CPU? Do you have process
explorer? That will give more detailed info than task manager.
Re: Flickering HD light; erratic high CPU usage; stuttering; what is it?
"Nehmo" <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182564086.705775.115330@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
> HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop running Windows XP Home SP2
>
> A few days ago, I don't know what precipitated it, the machine started
> a jerky behavior. Let's say when playing videos, the sound and pic
> would momentarily stop several times a minute. The hard drive light
> would light up at the same time, flickering. And it seems the CPU
> usage would go to a hundred percent off and on. Because of this
> hesitating, everything runs slow.
>
> I'm running AVG free and it's up to date. I also have windows
> defender.
>
> I tried using scandisk (via device manager) and it found several
> errors and fixed them. But still the problem persists.
>
> I don't know if this is a soft or hard problem. But there has to be a
> way to isolate what the problem is.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> --
> Nehmo
>
Is warmer/hotter than normal air being blown out by the fan(s)?
Does there appear to be any dust buildup around the fan(s)?
Re: Flickering HD light; erratic high CPU usage; stuttering; what is it?
Nehmo <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote:
> HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop running Windows XP Home SP2
> A few days ago, I don't know what precipitated it, the machine
> started a jerky behavior. Let's say when playing videos, the
> sound and pic would momentarily stop several times a minute.
> The hard drive light would light up at the same time, flickering.
> And it seems the CPU usage would go to a hundred percent
> off and on. Because of this hesitating, everything runs slow.
Most likely the hard drive has developed some bads and its the
bads that are causing the periodic momentary stopping, when
the drive is retrying on bads and eventually reads the sector
successfully after multiple attempts with that particular sector.
If that shows bads, it might just be because the drive is getting too hot
now that its summer and you just need to clean the fur out of the fans.
The Everest SMART report may well show the hard drive temp too.
> I'm running AVG free and it's up to date. I also have windows defender.
> I tried using scandisk (via device manager)
> and it found several errors and fixed them.
Thats normal if its just crashed a few times.
> But still the problem persists.
> I don't know if this is a soft or hard problem. But there
> has to be a way to isolate what the problem is.
Yes, the SMART report will show if its a hard drive problem or
the problem is elsewhere if the hard drive SMART report is fine.
The main evidence for a hard drive problem is the hard drive led symptom.
Re: Flickering HD light; erratic high CPU usage; stuttering; what is it?
On Jun 23, 12:21 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nehmo <nehm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop running Windows XP Home SP2
> > A few days ago, I don't know what precipitated it, the machine
> > started a jerky behavior. Let's say when playing videos, the
> > sound and pic would momentarily stop several times a minute.
> > The hard drive light would light up at the same time, flickering.
> > And it seems the CPU usage would go to a hundred percent
> > off and on. Because of this hesitating, everything runs slow.
>
> Most likely the hard drive has developed some bads and its the
> bads that are causing the periodic momentary stopping, when
> the drive is retrying on bads and eventually reads the sector
> successfully after multiple attempts with that particular sector.
>
> The best check for that possibility is to post the Everest SMART report here.http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
>
> If that shows bads, it might just be because the drive is getting too hot
> now that its summer and you just need to clean the fur out of the fans.
> The Everest SMART report may well show the hard drive temp too.
>
> > I'm running AVG free and it's up to date. I also have windows defender.
> > I tried using scandisk (via device manager)
> > and it found several errors and fixed them.
>
> Thats normal if its just crashed a few times.
>
> > But still the problem persists.
> > I don't know if this is a soft or hard problem. But there
> > has to be a way to isolate what the problem is.
>
> Yes, the SMART report will show if its a hard drive problem or
> the problem is elsewhere if the hard drive SMART report is fine.
>
> The main evidence for a hard drive problem is the hard drive led symptom.
I do have Everest. Here's the report I get when I run Everest:
ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
01 Raw Read Error Rate 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
02 Throughput Performance 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
03 Spin Up Time 1 100 100 1452 OK: Value is normal
04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 1946 OK: Always passing
05 Reallocated Sector Count 50 100 100 6 OK: Value is normal
07 Seek Error Rate 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
08 Seek Time Performance 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
09 Power-On Time Count 0 88 88 5056 OK: Always passing
0A Spin Retry Count 30 137 100 0 OK: Value is normal
0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 1858 OK: Always passing
C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 100 100 27 OK: Always passing
C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 88 88 128173 OK: Always passing
C2 Temperature 0 100 100 4294639661 OK: Always passing
C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 100 100 6 OK: Always passing
C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing
C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 253 0 OK: Always passing
DC Disk Shift 0 100 100 8271 OK: Always passing
DE Loaded Hours 0 91 91 3635 OK: Always passing
DF Load Retry Count 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
E0 Load Friction 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
E2 Load-In Time 0 100 100 209 OK: Always passing
F0 Head Flying Hours 1 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
The C2 temp looks funny. Is this what you mean by the SMART report?
Yes, I suspected there may be dirt around the fan. I have lots of
dogs. It really would be "fur". I'd have to figure out how to open
this thing.
Re: Flickering HD light; erratic high CPU usage; stuttering; whatis it?
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:01:26 -0700, Nehmo wrote:
> HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop running Windows XP Home SP2
>
> A few days ago, I don't know what precipitated it, the machine started
> a jerky behavior. Let's say when playing videos, the sound and pic
> would momentarily stop several times a minute. The hard drive light
> would light up at the same time, flickering. And it seems the CPU
> usage would go to a hundred percent off and on. Because of this
> hesitating, everything runs slow.
>
> I'm running AVG free and it's up to date. I also have windows
> defender.
>
> I tried using scandisk (via device manager) and it found several
> errors and fixed them. But still the problem persists.
>
> I don't know if this is a soft or hard problem. But there has to be a
> way to isolate what the problem is.
>
> Any ideas?
>
I realize you are using AVG and Defender but not long ago I had a similar
problem on my Windows machine. I was using AVG and AdAware Pro. The
problem, in my case, turned out to be "VirtuMonde" which was very
difficult to detect and even more difficult to remove. My symptoms were
identical to yours plus I had an added "popup" bonus which drove me crazy.
My point is that you could be suffering some sort of malware attack and
it may not be a hardware *or* software problem at all.
--
__________________________________________________ ________________
Linux Geek
Saying that XP is the most stable MS OS is like saying that
asparagus is the most articulate vegetable. (Dave Barry)
Re: Flickering HD light; erratic high CPU usage; stuttering; what is it?
On 23 Jun, 03:01, Nehmo <nehm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop running Windows XP Home SP2
>
> A few days ago, I don't know what precipitated it, the machine started
> a jerky behavior. Let's say when playing videos, the sound and pic
> would momentarily stop several times a minute. The hard drive light
> would light up at the same time, flickering. And it seems the CPU
> usage would go to a hundred percent off and on. Because of this
> hesitating, everything runs slow.
>
> I'm running AVG free and it's up to date. I also have windows
> defender.
>
> I tried using scandisk (via device manager) and it found several
> errors and fixed them. But still the problem persists.
>
> I don't know if this is a soft or hard problem. But there has to be a
> way to isolate what the problem is.
>
> Any ideas?
Could be any of several things. Some mentioned. Also open msconfig and
check nothing unneeded is ticked. Also use 'autoruns' to see if
anything is running that shouldnt be - which is what it sounds like.
But be careful with autoruns, very easy to screw up the OS if you
untick something essential.
Re: Flickering HD light; erratic high CPU usage; stuttering; what is it?
Nehmo <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Nehmo <nehm...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>> HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop running Windows XP Home SP2
>>> A few days ago, I don't know what precipitated it, the machine
>>> started a jerky behavior. Let's say when playing videos, the
>>> sound and pic would momentarily stop several times a minute.
>>> The hard drive light would light up at the same time, flickering.
>>> And it seems the CPU usage would go to a hundred percent
>>> off and on. Because of this hesitating, everything runs slow.
>> Most likely the hard drive has developed some bads and its the
>> bads that are causing the periodic momentary stopping, when
>> the drive is retrying on bads and eventually reads the sector
>> successfully after multiple attempts with that particular sector.
>> If that shows bads, it might just be because the drive is getting too hot
>> now that its summer and you just need to clean the fur out of the fans.
>> The Everest SMART report may well show the hard drive temp too.
>>> I'm running AVG free and it's up to date. I also have windows
>>> defender. I tried using scandisk (via device manager)
>>> and it found several errors and fixed them.
>> Thats normal if its just crashed a few times.
>>> But still the problem persists.
>>> I don't know if this is a soft or hard problem. But there
>>> has to be a way to isolate what the problem is.
>> Yes, the SMART report will show if its a hard drive problem or
>> the problem is elsewhere if the hard drive SMART report is fine.
>> The main evidence for a hard drive problem is the hard drive led symptom.
> I do have Everest. Here's the report I get when I run Everest:
> ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
> 01 Raw Read Error Rate 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
> 02 Throughput Performance 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
> 03 Spin Up Time 1 100 100 1452 OK: Value is normal
> 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 1946 OK: Always passing
> 05 Reallocated Sector Count 50 100 100 6 OK: Value is normal
Thats the bads.
> 07 Seek Error Rate 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
> 08 Seek Time Performance 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
> 09 Power-On Time Count 0 88 88 5056 OK: Always passing
> 0A Spin Retry Count 30 137 100 0 OK: Value is normal
> 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 1858 OK: Always passing
> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 100 100 27 OK: Always passing
> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 88 88 128173 OK: Always passing
> C2 Temperature 0 100 100 4294639661 OK: Always passing
> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 100 100 6 OK: Always passing
Looks like its a Toshiba, you left that out of the
report, you usually only get this value on Toshibas.
> DE Loaded Hours 0 91 91 3635 OK: Always passing
> DF Load Retry Count 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
> E0 Load Friction 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
> E2 Load-In Time 0 100 100 209 OK: Always passing
> F0 Head Flying Hours 1 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
> The C2 temp looks funny.
Yeah, maybe the drive doesnt have a SMART temperature sensor, not all drives do.
Show the Toshiba model number.
> Is this what you mean by the SMART report?
Yes.
> Yes, I suspected there may be dirt around the fan. I have lots of dogs.
> It really would be "fur". I'd have to figure out how to open this thing.
The full maintenance manual should tell you how to. That laptop
does run nice and cool tho, so I doubt its a temperature problem.
Its more likely to be a dying drive.
My HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop has a Fujitsu hard drive
and that reports the temp fine in the Everest SMART report.
Re: Flickering HD light; erratic high CPU usage; stuttering; what is it?
Rod Speed wrote:
> Nehmo <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >> Nehmo <nehm...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> >>> HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop running Windows XP Home SP2
> >>> A few days ago, I don't know what precipitated it, the machine
> >>> started a jerky behavior. Let's say when playing videos, the
> >>> sound and pic would momentarily stop several times a minute.
> >>> The hard drive light would light up at the same time, flickering.
> >>> And it seems the CPU usage would go to a hundred percent
> >>> off and on. Because of this hesitating, everything runs slow.
>
> >> Most likely the hard drive has developed some bads and its the
> >> bads that are causing the periodic momentary stopping, when
> >> the drive is retrying on bads and eventually reads the sector
> >> successfully after multiple attempts with that particular sector.
>
> >> The best check for that possibility is to post the Everest SMART
> >> report here.http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181ng
>
> >> If that shows bads, it might just be because the drive is getting too hot
> >> now that its summer and you just need to clean the fur out of the fans.
> >> The Everest SMART report may well show the hard drive temp too.
>
> >>> I'm running AVG free and it's up to date. I also have windows
> >>> defender. I tried using scandisk (via device manager)
> >>> and it found several errors and fixed them.
>
> >> Thats normal if its just crashed a few times.
>
> >>> But still the problem persists.
> >>> I don't know if this is a soft or hard problem. But there
> >>> has to be a way to isolate what the problem is.
>
> >> Yes, the SMART report will show if its a hard drive problem or
> >> the problem is elsewhere if the hard drive SMART report is fine.
>
> >> The main evidence for a hard drive problem is the hard drive led symptom.
>
> > I do have Everest. Here's the report I get when I run Everest:
> > ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
> > 01 Raw Read Error Rate 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
> > 02 Throughput Performance 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
> > 03 Spin Up Time 1 100 100 1452 OK: Value is normal
> > 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 1946 OK: Always passing
> > 05 Reallocated Sector Count 50 100 100 6 OK: Value is normal
>
> Thats the bads.
I believe you, of course, but how do those lines mean "bads"? The ends
of the lines always say normal or passing?
>
> > 07 Seek Error Rate 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
> > 08 Seek Time Performance 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
> > 09 Power-On Time Count 0 88 88 5056 OK: Always passing
> > 0A Spin Retry Count 30 137 100 0 OK: Value is normal
> > 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 1858 OK: Always passing
> > C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 100 100 27 OK: Always passing
> > C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 88 88 128173 OK: Always passing
> > C2 Temperature 0 100 100 4294639661 OK: Always passing
> > C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 100 100 6 OK: Always passing
>
> And so is that.
>
> > C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 100 100 19 OK: Always passing
>
> And so is that. Looks like the drive is dying or is running much too hot.
I took apart the laptop. I didn't find as much fur as I had expected,
considering I'm in a fur-filled environment. I vacuumed a bit and
reassembled. There was a period of terror when I couldn't boot up: The
screen said:
Media test failure, check cable
PXE-MOF Exiting PXE ROM
But I ******* the case together better, and Windows started.
It still functions with numerous interrupts.
>
> > C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
> > C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 200 253 0 OK: Always passing
> > DC Disk Shift 0 100 100 8271 OK: Always passing
>
> Looks like its a Toshiba, you left that out of the
> report, you usually only get this value on Toshibas.
Yes, it's a Toshiba
Device Description
TOSHIBA MK8025GAS (264D8399S)
>
> > DE Loaded Hours 0 91 91 3635 OK: Always passing
> > DF Load Retry Count 0 100 100 0 Op. Media Test FalurK: Always passing
> > E0 Load Friction 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
> > E2 Load-In Time 0 100 100 209 OK: Always passing
> > F0 Head Flying Hours 1 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
>
> > The C2 temp looks funny.
>
> Yeah, maybe the drive doesnt have a SMART temperature sensor, not all drives do.
>
> Show the Toshiba model number.
>
> > Is this what you mean by the SMART report?
>
> Yes.
>
> > Yes, I suspected there may be dirt around the fan. I have lots of dogs.
> > It really would be "fur". I'd have to figure out how to open this thing.
>
> The full maintenance manual should tell you how to. That laptop
> does run nice and cool tho, so I doubt its a temperature problem.
> Its more likely to be a dying drive.
So now I have to get another drive and figure out how to copy the old
to the new. It wouldn't be much of a problem except I don't have extra
equipment to use for the purpose.
I realize I should have a back-up computer, I also should have extra
drives serving as safety back up storage, and so on. But it's hard
enough just keeping one machine going. And I seldom have the
discretionary money for more equipment. It seems I'm always getting
into trouble. Anyway, enough crying.
Is that my next step, get a replacement drive? This one, 80 GB, was
too small anyway.
And once I get a new drive, should I also copy the HP laptop
arrangement of dividing the drive into two parts? One is the recovery
partition. Is it useful?
>
> My HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop has a Fujitsu hard drive
> and that reports the temp fine in the Everest SMART report.
Re: Flickering HD light; erratic high CPU usage; stuttering; what is it?
Nehmo <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Nehmo <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Nehmo <nehm...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>> HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop running Windows XP Home SP2
>>>>> A few days ago, I don't know what precipitated it, the machine
>>>>> started a jerky behavior. Let's say when playing videos, the
>>>>> sound and pic would momentarily stop several times a minute.
>>>>> The hard drive light would light up at the same time, flickering.
>>>>> And it seems the CPU usage would go to a hundred percent
>>>>> off and on. Because of this hesitating, everything runs slow.
>>>> Most likely the hard drive has developed some bads and its the
>>>> bads that are causing the periodic momentary stopping, when
>>>> the drive is retrying on bads and eventually reads the sector
>>>> successfully after multiple attempts with that particular sector.
>>>> If that shows bads, it might just be because the drive is getting
>>>> too hot now that its summer and you just need to clean the fur out
>>>> of the fans. The Everest SMART report may well show the hard drive
>>>> temp too.
>>>>> I'm running AVG free and it's up to date. I also have windows
>>>>> defender. I tried using scandisk (via device manager)
>>>>> and it found several errors and fixed them.
>>>> Thats normal if its just crashed a few times.
>>>>> But still the problem persists.
>>>>> I don't know if this is a soft or hard problem. But there
>>>>> has to be a way to isolate what the problem is.
>>>> Yes, the SMART report will show if its a hard drive problem or
>>>> the problem is elsewhere if the hard drive SMART report is fine.
>>>> The main evidence for a hard drive problem is the hard drive led symptom.
>>> I do have Everest. Here's the report I get when I run Everest:
>>> ID Attribute Description Threshold Value Worst Data Status
>>> 01 Raw Read Error Rate 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
>>> 02 Throughput Performance 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
>>> 03 Spin Up Time 1 100 100 1452 OK: Value is normal
>>> 04 Start/Stop Count 0 100 100 1946 OK: Always passing
>>> 05 Reallocated Sector Count 50 100 100 6 OK: Value is normal
>> Thats the bads.
> I believe you, of course, but how do those lines mean "bads"?
Just the one just above my comment, thats why I interleaved that comment there.
> The ends of the lines always say normal or passing?
The Data value is 6, so thats 6 reallocated sectors.
Thats the bads, they're reallocated because they are bad.
>>> 07 Seek Error Rate 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
>>> 08 Seek Time Performance 50 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
>>> 09 Power-On Time Count 0 88 88 5056 OK: Always passing
>>> 0A Spin Retry Count 30 137 100 0 OK: Value is normal
>>> 0C Power Cycle Count 0 100 100 1858 OK: Always passing
>>> C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 100 100 27 OK: Always passing
>>> C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 88 88 128173 OK: Always passing
>>> C2 Temperature 0 100 100 4294639661 OK: Always passing
>>> C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 100 100 6 OK: Always passing
>> And so is that. Looks like the drive is dying or is running much too hot.
Thats 19 dubious sectors.
> I took apart the laptop. I didn't find as much fur as I had expected,
> considering I'm in a fur-filled environment. I vacuumed a bit and
> reassembled. There was a period of terror when I couldn't boot up: The
> screen said:
> Media test failure, check cable
> PXE-MOF Exiting PXE ROM
> But I ******* the case together better, and Windows started.
> It still functions with numerous interrupts.
>>> DE Loaded Hours 0 91 91 3635 OK: Always passing
>>> DF Load Retry Count 0 100 100 0 Op. Media Test FalurK: Always
>>> passing E0 Load Friction 0 100 100 0 OK: Always passing
>>> E2 Load-In Time 0 100 100 209 OK: Always passing
>>> F0 Head Flying Hours 1 100 100 0 OK: Value is normal
>>> The C2 temp looks funny.
>> Yeah, maybe the drive doesnt have a SMART temperature sensor, not all drives do.
>> Show the Toshiba model number.
>>> Is this what you mean by the SMART report?
>> Yes.
>>> Yes, I suspected there may be dirt around the fan. I have lots of dogs.
>>> It really would be "fur". I'd have to figure out how to open this thing.
>> The full maintenance manual should tell you how to. That laptop
>> does run nice and cool tho, so I doubt its a temperature problem.
>> Its more likely to be a dying drive.
> So now I have to get another drive and figure out how to copy the old
> to the new. It wouldn't be much of a problem except I don't have extra
> equipment to use for the purpose.
> I realize I should have a back-up computer, I also should have extra
> drives serving as safety back up storage, and so on. But it's hard
> enough just keeping one machine going. And I seldom have the
> discretionary money for more equipment. It seems I'm always
> getting into trouble. Anyway, enough crying.
> Is that my next step, get a replacement drive?
I would, before it dies.
> This one, 80 GB, was too small anyway.
> And once I get a new drive, should I also copy the HP
> laptop arrangement of dividing the drive into two parts?
> One is the recovery partition. Is it useful?
Yes, if you have some other problem later.
>> My HP Compaq Presario V2000 laptop has a Fujitsu hard drive
>> and that reports the temp fine in the Everest SMART report.
Flickering HD light; erratic high CPU usage; stuttering; what is it? 
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