First post: Help with pro-sumer homebuilt desktop upgrade

Hey all,

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read / respond.

I am a full-time graphic designer, currently using a Dell Precision
M90 laptop (dual core, 2GB ram) and the strain of these huge Photoshop
files is killing this computer. Once the file gets above 300MB,
the computer slows to a crawl.

This has prompted me to upgrade to a quad-core desktop with tons of
ram. Some nice nvidia cards would be cool too. ;-)

I'm reasonably sure I can cobble together a desktop myself, though
it's been 3+ years since I put one together. If anyone can recommend
some good deals on off-the-shelf deals, here are the specs I'd like to
get:

Quad core, future upgradeable to dual quads.
8GB DDR2, future upgradeable to 16GB
2-way SLI 512MB (DX10 preferred)
500GB internal (RAID not req'd.)
A silent fan & nice looking case, but I'm not a hard-core gamer so the
lights aren't necessary.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Take care,

.... Christopher

For some reference, here is a configuration I made on MagicMicro.com,
costing about $953. Perhaps someone can tell me if these parts are
adequate, or if I can get something better somewhere else:

CURRENT CONFIGURATION
AMD Phenom 9600+ (Quad Core) AM2+ 4MB Cache
Spire Kestrel-King V AMD 64 EXTRA QUIET fan
Gigabyte GA-M57 SLI nForce 570, SLI PCI-EX, DDR2 ,1GB LAN (Quad
support)
8GB (4x2GB) PC5300 DDR2 667 Dual Channel (Check board compatibility)
ATI CrossFire Radeon x1550 512MB x2 PCI Express 16x, tv out (2 cards)
320.0GB Hitachi/ IBM 7200rpm SATA2 UDMA 300 8m Cache
Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1
Ethernet network adapter (onboard)
Nikao Black Neon ATX Case w/ Temperature control, front USB & iEEE
PoWork Extra Quiet 600W ATX Power Supply SLI Ready


Take care,

.... Christopher

"Manga27" <csands@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c575de50-7110-4f70-ae19-07e0ad2b790d@q1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> For some reference, here is a configuration I made on MagicMicro.com,
> costing about $953. Perhaps someone can tell me if these parts are
> adequate, or if I can get something better somewhere else:
>
> CURRENT CONFIGURATION
> AMD Phenom 9600+ (Quad Core) AM2+ 4MB Cache
> Spire Kestrel-King V AMD 64 EXTRA QUIET fan
> Gigabyte GA-M57 SLI nForce 570, SLI PCI-EX, DDR2 ,1GB LAN (Quad
> support)
> 8GB (4x2GB) PC5300 DDR2 667 Dual Channel (Check board compatibility)
> ATI CrossFire Radeon x1550 512MB x2 PCI Express 16x, tv out (2 cards)
> 320.0GB Hitachi/ IBM 7200rpm SATA2 UDMA 300 8m Cache
> Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1
> Ethernet network adapter (onboard)
> Nikao Black Neon ATX Case w/ Temperature control, front USB & iEEE
> PoWork Extra Quiet 600W ATX Power Supply SLI Ready
>
>
> Take care,
>
> ... Christopher
>
NO!!!!! That PSU is $30!!! You need a REAL PSU, at least $80!! If you
are fitting 8Mb of RAM you need a 64bit OS. Why do you want a 64 bit OS?
What 64 bit software are you planning to use?

Mike.

Well, I suppose I'll upgrade Photoshop when it becomes 64-bit, but
even if I am using the regular 32-bit Photoshop, can't I run it on 64-
bit Windows Vista or XP?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Take care,

.... Christopher











On Apr 16, 4:57 pm, "Michael Hawes"
<michael.hawes1rem...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> "Manga27" <csa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c575de50-7110-4f70-ae19-07e0ad2b790d@q1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > For some reference, here is a configuration I made on MagicMicro.com,
> > costing about $953. Perhaps someone can tell me if these parts are
> > adequate, or if I can get something better somewhere else:
>
> > CURRENT CONFIGURATION
> > AMD Phenom 9600+ (Quad Core) AM2+ 4MB Cache
> > Spire Kestrel-King V AMD 64 EXTRA QUIET fan
> > Gigabyte GA-M57 SLI nForce 570, SLI PCI-EX, DDR2 ,1GB LAN (Quad
> > support)
> > 8GB (4x2GB) PC5300 DDR2 667 Dual Channel (Check board compatibility)
> > ATI CrossFire Radeon x1550 512MB x2 PCI Express 16x, tv out (2 cards)
> > 320.0GB Hitachi/ IBM 7200rpm SATA2 UDMA 300 8m Cache
> > Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1
> > Ethernet network adapter (onboard)
> > Nikao Black Neon ATX Case w/ Temperature control, front USB & iEEE
> > PoWork Extra Quiet 600W ATX Power Supply SLI Ready
>
> > Take care,
>
> > ... Christopher
>
> NO!!!!! That PSU is $30!!! You need a REAL PSU, at least $80!! If you
> are fitting 8Mb of RAM you need a 64bit OS. Why do you want a 64 bit OS?
> What 64 bit software are you planning to use?
>
> Mike.

You gave up on the dual quad core capability? That's probably a good idea,
if the system that you list represents your budget. Dual socket systems tend
to use server mainboards, which can be much more expensive than desktop
boards. (I have no knowledge of future 8 core designs that would fit
existing sockets.)

Why the dual graphics cards? I doubt that SLI or Crossfire would be of much
use in Photoshop. Also, the X1550 isn't a DX10 card. Regardless of that, the
X1550 isn't exactly a high-end card. For a quick comparison of cards, see:

http://users.erols.com/chare/video.htm

I think that you'd get much better performance with a single 3850 card,
which isn't a high end card.

My personal price/performance preference at the moment would be a 512MB
nVidia 8800GT based card. If you want to do SLI with nVidia cards, you'll
need a mainboard with an nVidia chipset, because nVidia doesn't provide SLI
drivers for mainboards with Intel chipsets. (AMD/ATI makes Crossfire
available on Intel mainboards.)

As another poster remarked, if you install more than 4 GB of RAM, you'll
need XP Pro. 64 or one of the Vista 64 versions. (I'm running Vista Home
Premium X64. The only unexpected problem I've had with it so far is that I
had to upgrade to Photoshop CS3; CS2 had some bugs that Adobe many never
fix.)

I prefer to avoid religious discussions, but at the moment, for general
performance, Intel seems to have the edge over AMD. That includes the quad
core CPUs:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2282405,00.asp

45 nm versions are now available, for example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115043

(Q9300). If you wish to try overclocking, though, you might prefer one of
the older cores (like a Q6600; make sure to get the G0 stepping) with a
lower FSB (1066 MHz, vs. 1333 for the Q9300).

I also agree with the other poster to not save too much money on the power
supply. That's particularly important if you're serious about SLI:

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_build_psu.html

Have fun.

Return address scrambled. Replace nkbob with bobkn.

"Manga27" <csands@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c575de50-7110-4f70-ae19-07e0ad2b790d@q1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> For some reference, here is a configuration I made on MagicMicro.com,
> costing about $953. Perhaps someone can tell me if these parts are
> adequate, or if I can get something better somewhere else:
>
> CURRENT CONFIGURATION
> AMD Phenom 9600+ (Quad Core) AM2+ 4MB Cache
> Spire Kestrel-King V AMD 64 EXTRA QUIET fan
> Gigabyte GA-M57 SLI nForce 570, SLI PCI-EX, DDR2 ,1GB LAN (Quad
> support)
> 8GB (4x2GB) PC5300 DDR2 667 Dual Channel (Check board compatibility)
> ATI CrossFire Radeon x1550 512MB x2 PCI Express 16x, tv out (2 cards)
> 320.0GB Hitachi/ IBM 7200rpm SATA2 UDMA 300 8m Cache
> Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1
> Ethernet network adapter (onboard)
> Nikao Black Neon ATX Case w/ Temperature control, front USB & iEEE
> PoWork Extra Quiet 600W ATX Power Supply SLI Ready
>
>
> Take care,
>
> ... Christopher

"Manga27" <csands@gmail.com> wrote...
> Well, I suppose I'll upgrade Photoshop when it becomes 64-bit, but
> even if I am using the regular 32-bit Photoshop, can't I run it on 64-
> bit Windows Vista or XP?

> CURRENT CONFIGURATION
> AMD Phenom 9600+ (Quad Core) AM2+ 4MB Cache
> Spire Kestrel-King V AMD 64 EXTRA QUIET fan
> Gigabyte GA-M57 SLI nForce 570, SLI PCI-EX, DDR2 ,1GB LAN (Quad
> support)
> 8GB (4x2GB) PC5300 DDR2 667 Dual Channel (Check board compatibility)
> ATI CrossFire Radeon x1550 512MB x2 PCI Express 16x, tv out (2 cards)
> 320.0GB Hitachi/ IBM 7200rpm SATA2 UDMA 300 8m Cache
> Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1
> Ethernet network adapter (onboard)
> Nikao Black Neon ATX Case w/ Temperature control, front USB & iEEE
> PoWork Extra Quiet 600W ATX Power Supply SLI Ready

FWIW, consider the Intel Core2Quad series. Price is comparable, performance is
proven, chipsets are mature (check out the Gigabyte X38 and X48 offerings). I
wouldn't jump into a Phenom just yet.

You also need to ensure ALL your apps will run on 64-bit XP or Vista, and that
there are drivers available for ALL your hardware. Again, I don't think 64-bit
XP or Vista is "ready for prime time" yet...

Then you can save $$ on the RAM by getting 4 GB instead of 8 GB, and dump the
SLI/Crossfire for now (why do you think you need it?!?), then invest in a real
PSU and a pair of Raptor 150s for your OS, apps, and scratch disk.

Manga27 wrote:

> This has prompted me to upgrade to a quad-core desktop with tons of
> ram.

It seems like that would be the thing to do, but it's not. Here is an article
describing some interesting limitations concerning memory on Windows
machines:

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx


And here's what Adobe has to say on the subject:

http://www.adobe.com/go/kb401088
http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/view...ernalId=322829

On Apr 16, 8:38 pm, "Fishface" <inva...@ddress.ok?> wrote:
> And here's what Adobe has to say on the subject:

"... If you have more than 4 GB (to 6 GB), then the RAM above 4 GB is
used by the operating system as a cache for the Photoshop scratch disk
data. Data that previously was written directly to the hard disk by
Photoshop is now cached in this high RAM before being written to the
hard disk by the operating system. If you are working with files large
enough to take advantage of these extra 2 GB of RAM, the RAM cache can
speed performance of Photoshop. Additionally, in Windows Vista 64-bit,
processing very large images is much faster if your computer has large
amounts of RAM (6-8 GB)."


This seems very interesting to me, since I am working now with huge
files: 500MB to 1GB in some cases, and growing daily. But, it seems
that many people are wary of using 64-bit operating systems since many
device drivers are missing... ? Is this a correct assumption, or am I
missing something here?

Does this also affect the software I load into 64-bit Windows? (for
example, if I use Firefox, Trillian, Skype... do there have to be 64-
bit versions of these programs, or will they be compatible with
Windows XP x64 natively?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Take care,

.... Christopher

Based on everyone's suggestions, I've come up with a better
configuration that seems best for Photoshop work. I'd appreciate any
comments, and whether someone can point me towards the correct
components / good prices. Also, quiet components are essential for
Power Supplies and Case Fans as I do video conferencing and video
training as well.)

It seems Photoshop CS3 can still handle 6 to 8 GB ram, though the
system ends up using the ram higher than 4GB for a virtual scratch
disk. So, if anyone can help me decide whether or not to upgrade to
WinXP / Vista x64, it would be greatly helpful - the major concern
being support for all of the other programs I need.

Some SLI compatible Mobo with 1,333 or 1,600 FSB (any suggestions?)
Core 2 Quad 2.4 chip
Good 650 or 750 PSU (quiet one, please - any suggestions?)
EGA gforce 8800 GS 512GB ram
Two 150GB Raptors
4GB or 8GB DDR2

A nice 22" monitor would be nice to go alongside my tablet monitor -
any suggestions? Also, I probably need a vid. card with two outputs,
correct?



Looking forward to your thoughts.

Take care,

.... Christopher

Manga27 <csands@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, I suppose I'll upgrade Photoshop when it becomes 64-bit, but
> even if I am using the regular 32-bit Photoshop, can't I run it on
> 64- bit Windows Vista or XP?

You can determine that by visiting a Photoshop group.