Re: First post: Help with pro-sumer homebuilt desktop upgrade
John,
> > Based on Adobe's documents (referenced in the thread above:
> > thanks, Fishface!) it would seem that Photoshop only can reference
> > up to ~4GB... So, if I have 4GB, I might get 2GB RAM for
> > Photoshop as some processes are used for Windows / other programs.
>
> Stop guessing and use Performance Monitor or MemStatus to determine
> that.
How can I test this, when I don't have a 4GB system?
Re: First post: Help with pro-sumer homebuilt desktop upgrade
Manga27 <csands@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Based on Adobe's documents (referenced in the thread above:
>> > thanks, Fishface!) it would seem that Photoshop only can
>> > reference up to ~4GB... So, if I have 4GB, I might get 2GB
>> > RAM for Photoshop as some processes are used for Windows /
>> > other programs.
> How can I test this, when I don't have a 4GB system?
Use Performance Monitor or MemStatus to find out how much memory
"some processes" are using. Or just open Windows Task Manager and
look at Physical Memory.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Take care,
>
> ... Christopher
>
Re: First post: Help with pro-sumer homebuilt desktop upgrade
"Manga27" <csands@gmail.com> wrote...
[2 posts combined]
> The reason I've been bent on a 64-bit system, is that I wanted to get
> above 4GB RAM. The 2GB / Dual Core system I have now is painfully
> slow in my work, and I don't think doubling the ram and proc. to 4GB /
> Quad is going to be enough.
How much RAM and Virtual Memory is Photoshop using in your current system
(Task Manager will tell you)?
Why do you think 4 GB will not be enough? Consider that the OS and
background apps (firewall, antivirus...) can easily use 500 MB, leaving 1.5
GB for Photoshop on the current system. With 4 GB and 32-bit Win, the /3GB
switch in Win will give you at least 1 GB MORE RAM available to Photoshop!
Again, how much do you think you need, and WHY?!?
Only YOU can research the compatibility of all your hardware and apps with
64-bit Win. The general advice is to NOT do it for an all-purpose home
machine, but do what you need for your dedicated Photoshop machine...
> QUESTIONS:
> Can anyone give me a good reason to go for Vista Business over Home
> Premium?
I can't even give you a good reason to go Vista at all!
> Will an additional Rapter really affect the overall speed of the
> computer enough to justify $200+?
It all depends on how much raw speed is important to you, and how you
measure that speed. In some cases speed increases will only be measurable
by a benchmark app, and will not be perceptible to you. In other cases,
benchmarks may not show significant overall gains, but some part of the
system (especially if it is a bottleneck) gains enough to make a real,
perceptible difference.
With current systems, disk I/O is often the bottleneck for computer-based
apps (network bandwidth is obviously a limiting factor in Internet- or
server-based apps. If the app requires significant disk I/O, HD access
speed is VERY important. In your case, you want a separate physical HD for
the primary Photoshop scratch disk, so it can access that HD independently
from the OS, app DLLs, and data I/O. Since budget IS a consideration, we
can't suggest a RAID 10 (minimum 4 HDs) option, so the fastest 2-HD option
should be a primary consideration.
Without the immediate need for SLI, is an X38 or X48 chipset an option?
They support faster FSB and RAM speeds, and there are several (e.g.,
Gigabyte X38-DS4) that use DDR2 RAM so you don't have to pay for DDR3.
The extra performance will likely cost a bit more (faster RAM), so it's a
trade you'll have to consider.
NO! A proprietary "108 Mbps" 802.1G adapter will get you nowhere near 108
Mbps! A current 802.1N draft compatible network setup is what you need for
performance and upgradability on a "performance" machine!
Re: First post: Help with pro-sumer homebuilt desktop upgrade
Manga27 wrote:
> Based on the suggestions of everyone here, I have
> come up with this $1,337 system - I'd appreciate someone "signing off"
> on this config before I hit the checkout button.
Try to get a Q9450 instead. There's a reason they're in short supply.
> Intel factory Auto-RPM Silent CPU Air Cool
Not all that quiet in my experience. Speed up, slow down, speed up...
Well, that may be the fault of the motherboard manufacturer designing
a very tight loop into the PWM circuit, so it could vary by brand, but I
have found that a nice 92 mm aftermarket cooler running at constant
speed is less annoying.
> 8G (4x2GB) PC6400 DDR2/800
Just make sure to install the OS with just 2GB, and install all patches,
reboot, and then install the other memory.
> Geforce 8600GT: 512MB
> 320GB SATA-II 7200RPM w/16MB Buffer
> Western Digital Rapter 150GB SATA 10000RPM w/ 16MB Buffer
You're giving photoshop a dedicated fast scratch disk, right? I don't
know if there is a good RAM disk available for Vista 64, but I have heard
that some people put their scratch disk on a RAM disk. Maybe check
this one out:
Re: First post: Help with pro-sumer homebuilt desktop upgrade
Manga27 wrote:
> A nice 22" monitor would be nice to go alongside my tablet monitor -
> any suggestions?
I bought an LG 22" monitor with TN panel. Hated it. I am much happier with
my 24" with P-MVA panel. It's a Soyo, on special at OfficeMax for only $300,
but unfortunately I have heard they switched to TN panels. The box for
the TN says 3ms. The box for the P-MVA said 6ms.
Re: First post: Help with pro-sumer homebuilt desktop upgrade
Manga27 wrote:
>
> A nice 22" monitor would be nice to go alongside my tablet monitor -
> any suggestions?
I've been very happy with my Samsung 193P and 244T. Make sure you go for
the higher-end series, not the cheaper (and much more often advertised)
versions; viewing angle and contrast are way different. They have recently
changed the model designations so I don't know what replaced the P and T
series (2280HD or 225UW?) .
Re: First post: Help with pro-sumer homebuilt desktop upgrade
For what it's worth:
When I read some of the posts on ResellerRatings.com, many of the
negative posts sound to me like hyper-active, low-budget and easily
unsatisfied buyers. Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with that.
But, one person was upset because his on-board video card kept
freezing with some game's 3D processing. Another post was about a
buyer who called to get a rush order just before the Thanksgiving
holiday, and was upset when it hadn't arrived to his home two days
later.
I'm not defending this company in any way, just pointing out some
impressions I found from ResellerRatings.com. I really wasn't able to
find any complaints that said, "Well they totally wouldn't honor the
warranty." or "They never delivered the computer I ordered."
Before I placed the order with PC USA I called to ask about Vista 64
compatibility. The guy in the sales department seemed to be
knowledgeable, and a nice person in general.
He did a spot check of my order and recommended some things I hadn't
considered. When I explained the purpose of the system (heavy 2D
graphics in Photoshop), he recommended downgrading the video card to
save money and upgrading the motherboard, since the newer 45 nm chips
wouldn't work in the older 650i series ASUS motherboards. Also, he
recommended the MSI board over ASUS because it apparently doesn't
suffer from the "2GB memory workaround" for installing 64-bit Vista.
Granted, it's a more expensive board, but since I downgraded the video
card I came up with a lower price in the end.
All-in-all, it seemed like a good experience, and I'll post again when
I've received the system and tested it out.
Thanks, all, for the help.
PS> There was a coupon on AbleShoppers.com for a refurb 22" Dell LCD
(1600x1050) for $220 after shipping, so I picked up one of those.
Take care,
.... Christopher
On Apr 18, 12:55 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> Manga27 wrote:
> > All,
>
> > This is a repost - sorry if it was duplicated, but it seems Google
> > lost my original. Based on the suggestions of everyone here, I have
> > come up with this $1,337 system - I'd appreciate someone "signing off"
> > on this config before I hit the checkout button.
>
> > NOTE: I've added a Rapter 150GB as the secondary (scratch) disk, but
> > used a standard 7,200RPM 320GB for the main drive. Can anyone let me
> > know, would dropping the 320GB slower drive and using a Rapter 150GB
> > as the main drive give that much of a performance boost to be worth
> > the extra $200+?
>
> > NOTE: I gave up on SLI - I don't need it right now, I'm not a gamer
> > and my work is 2D not 3D, so the performance increase would be
> > negligible.
>
> > NZXT: Alpha [ CS-NT-ACP-WOW ] ( Front USB, Audio ), Black
> > Original Case Power Supply QTY: 1
> > Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300, LGA 775, 2.5GHz, 64-Bit Quad-Core, 6MB Cache;
> > 1333MHz
> > Intel factory Auto-RPM Silent CPU Air Cool
> > Asus nForce 650i SLI, 8GB Max, SLI, RAID,1394, S/PDIF, Audio, GbLAN.
> > [ P5N-E SLI ]
> > 8G (4x2GB) PC6400 DDR2/800
> > Geforce 8600GT: 512MB
> > 320GB SATA-II 7200RPM w/16MB Buffer
> > Western Digital Rapter 150GB SATA 10000RPM w/ 16MB Buffer
> > MSI TV@nywhere Plus, TV Tuner, w/Remote Control
> > Integrated onBoard 10/100/(1000) Port(s)
> > 108Mbps: Zonet ZEW1620, 802.11b/g PCI Internal Wireless Adapter
> > Windows Vista Home Premium - 64 Bit Edition - w/ DVD set
>
> > URL Link :
> >http://www.pcusa.com/shopKitConfig.a...tList=0,32,0,1...,
>
> > Thanks everyone!
>
> > ... Christopher
>
> Case - lower drive cage may conflict with long cards. Some video cards
> are pretty long (8.5"). The PCUSA page says "8800GTX" compatible,
> which I guess is their way of saying a long card fits.
>
> The inside of the case might look like this. Newegg doesn't bundle the
> PP500 power supply with this, so you could buy something else.
>
> http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggIma...146-041-10.jpg
>
> "Case power supply" is a 500W unit. The NZXT site lists a "PP500", so
> this could be the one PCUSA includes. Maybe someone else has an idea
> who actually makes this (there is a lot of sub-contracting in the power
> supply business).
>
> http://www.nzxt.com/products/pp500/
>
> +12V1DC 1 to 16 amps \__ (no derating when both fully used)
> +12V2DC 1 to 17 amps /
> +5VDC 0.3 to 40 amps \__ 250W max (plenty for lower rails - typ ~100W used)
> +3.3VDC 0.5 to 34 amps /
> -12VDC 0.0 to 0.8 amps
> +5VSB 0.0 to 2.5 amps
>
> P5N-E SLI CPUSupport page - Q9300 is not currently listed!
>
> http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/c...guage=en-us&mo...
>
> P5N-E SLI product page.http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1...0&model=1474&m...
>
> You should always download the motherboard manual, and have a read through it,
> to see if the motherboard has everything you expected (like O.C. controls in
> BIOS etc).
>
> http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/...LI/Q3180_p5n-e...
>
> No 2GB sticks were tested for P5N-E, but that is because of the date of
> release, rather than being a technical issue. 2GB sticks are a more recent
> phenomenon.
>
> http://www.asus.com/999/download/pro...74/1474_10.pdf
>
> For user experiences and problem reports, you can look here.
>
> http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx...5N-E+SLI&SLang...
>
> A thread on instability with 8GB total, here. Sounds like 2x2GB might be a
> safer bet for a memory config.
>
> http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?...5&board_id=1&m...
>
> Processor is 95W. 8600GT is 43W (as per the second link). The
> power supply should not have a problem with this.
>
> http://processorfinder.intel.com/det...px?sSpec=SLAWE
>
> http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards....rd1=513&card2=
>
> Review on your selected supplier "pcusa". 5.29 out of 10. Not
> everyone is happy with them. I think this is the place, that puts a
> "warranty seal" on the computer case door.
>
> http://www.resellerratings.com/store..._dba_PC_Source
>
> There is a thread discussing pcusa.com here. What you really want
> to do, is find an absolutely current web page from them, to see
> if the same warranty terms still apply.
>
> http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.co...built/browse_t...
>
> For example, this is an archived web page from Aug.2006
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/200608210...usa.com/displa...
>
> "All warranty will be voided if any Warranty Sticker or Seal is broken off
> on the purchased products. Any tempering of the warranty condition of any
> purchased products voids the warranty of such products"
>
> Good luck,
> Paul
Re: First post: Help with pro-sumer homebuilt desktop upgrade
Manga27 wrote:
> Well, I suppose I'll upgrade Photoshop when it becomes 64-bit, but
> even if I am using the regular 32-bit Photoshop, can't I run it on 64-
> bit Windows Vista or XP?
>
> Looking forward to your thoughts.
>
> Take care,
>
> ... Christopher
>
Yes, 32 bit Photoshop will run on 64 bit Vista just fine. I'm using
Elements on Vista 64 w/ 4GB RAM and a 36GB Raptor dedicated as
Photoshops scratch disk. Haven't had any problems.
Re: First post: Help with pro-sumer homebuilt desktop upgrade
Sweet! Thanks Fitz - I'm looking forward to the extra RAM and Raptor
scratch disk. ;-)
Take care,
.... Christopher
On Apr 24, 2:33 pm, Fitz <akf...@gci.net> wrote:
> Manga27 wrote:
> > Well, I suppose I'll upgrade Photoshop when it becomes 64-bit, but
> > even if I am using the regular 32-bit Photoshop, can't I run it on 64-
> > bit Windows Vista or XP?
>
> > Looking forward to your thoughts.
>
> > Take care,
>
> > ... Christopher
>
> Yes, 32 bit Photoshop will run on 64 bit Vista just fine. I'm using
> Elements on Vista 64 w/ 4GB RAM and a 36GB Raptor dedicated as
> Photoshops scratch disk. Haven't had any problems.
>
> Fitz
Re: First post: Help with pro-sumer homebuilt desktop upgrade 
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