I'm stuck between Brisbane vs Windsor processors. There's a lot on the
net about which is better or worse, hotter or cooler, 65 nm vs 89 nm
(whatever an "nm" is), etc, etc, etc. I think I'm on information
overload. I've sort of narrowed my choices down to being between,
> AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz for $119. at Newegg
Or
> AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Windsor 2.8GHz for 149. at Newegg
I'm not into overclocking or heavy on gaming but I will be multitasking
business applications quite heavily with dual monitors. The CPU will be
set on a micro ATX, MSI K9NBPM2-FID in a SFF case (Microfly MX6) so I am
concerned a bit about heat. The biggest performance difference I can
see is the cache size, and about .2GHz--although a big price difference
of course. Would there really be much noticeable difference between the
two? Any insight on which, or other CPU, choice would be greatly
appreciated. Yep, it's only my second build.
Thanks, John
>> AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz for $119. at Newegg
>
> Or
>
>> AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Windsor 2.8GHz for 149. at Newegg
>
>
> I'm not into overclocking or heavy on gaming but I will be
> multitasking business applications quite heavily with dual monitors.
I've always used two monitors. From what I can tell, it matters little
unless you're talking about gaming (like a flight simulator).
> The CPU will be set on a micro ATX, MSI K9NBPM2-FID in a SFF case
> (Microfly MX6) so I am concerned a bit about heat. The biggest
> performance difference I can see is the cache size,
Twice as much cache, which might help you a lot. But the larger
transistor size might produce more heat. I would go for the 6000 (and
from a 939 to an AM2 mainboard), but I do gaming and I'm not worried
about heat. I would also have at least 2 GB of RAM or at least one
free memory slot.
It's a good question. Unless the 5600 produces too much heat,
definitely go for that or the 6000 (you can give it to me if it's
too hot, haha). You'll have to research the heat issue unless someone
here knows.
JEH wrote:
> I'm stuck between Brisbane vs Windsor processors. There's a lot on the
> net about which is better or worse, hotter or cooler, 65 nm vs 89 nm
> (whatever an "nm" is), etc, etc, etc. I think I'm on information
> overload. I've sort of narrowed my choices down to being between,
>
>> AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz for $119. at Newegg
>
> Or
>
>> AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Windsor 2.8GHz for 149. at Newegg
>
>
> I'm not into overclocking or heavy on gaming but I will be multitasking
> business applications quite heavily with dual monitors. The CPU will be
> set on a micro ATX, MSI K9NBPM2-FID in a SFF case (Microfly MX6) so I am
> concerned a bit about heat. The biggest performance difference I can
> see is the cache size, and about .2GHz--although a big price difference
> of course. Would there really be much noticeable difference between the
> two? Any insight on which, or other CPU, choice would be greatly
> appreciated. Yep, it's only my second build.
> Thanks, John
>
>
As the performance level goes up, you'd expect to see an effect on the
power consumed. The same thing happens, if you used a slower part and
overclocked it - the power goes up when you do that.
Now, of the ones in the list, the BE-2350 would be the winner in terms of
having a cool PC. But since the clock is lower, when one core is doing most
of the work, it behaves like an old P4 at 3GHz or so. If both cores are
doing useful work (say a Photoshop filter using dual cores), then you
get more performance than that from it.
Since the processors support Cool N' Quiet, when the computer is idle, it won't be
drawing the listed power above. The power requirement drops when the computer
is idle. But if you are doing something like DVDshrink, where the processor
is working hard for long periods of time, the processor and the inside of the
computer will get warmer.
The Microfly has a removable motherboard tray, but using it means that the
heatsink assembly has a limited total height. The case does have room for
a 120mm fan on the back, which would be a minimum requirement for me. So
it does pass in that regard. The question would be, what would the best
CPU cooler be, considering the height restriction. The retail cooler probably
fits, but if you wanted to use something bigger and quieter, that might not
work out too well.
I'd try it with the retail cooler first. Once you have the Microfly in
front of you, you'll be able to measure the clearance for the cooler,
and decide whether a more exotic cooler is possible. (I looked at an
XP-120 with adapters, but it still might be too tall for the opening.)
There is an equation for case cooling, as keeping the entire computer cool
is also important.
The 120mm fan will have an air movement rating in CFM. Fans come in about
four speed ranges, low, medium, high, ultra, with each one having a different
CFM as a result. An example of a "low" would be 54CFM. A "medium" at 120mm
size, 81CFM. If we plug 81 CFM into the equation (and that would be a bit
noisy at 46 dBA), set delta_case_to_ambient to 10F, (81/3.16)*10 = 256 watts.
That would be the amount of heat that the 120mm medium speed fan could cool.
The 10F (or 7C equiv.) is considered to be "good case cooling" and you are
free to allow that to go higher. The 256 watts would include your processor
and video card heat output as the main contributors, but also not forgetting
a max of 50W for motherboard and RAM, and maybe 30W for storage device
contribution. Selecting an 89W processor, would leave about 87W for a video
card. So the only thing you'd be restricted on, using using a high end card,
as some of those video cards draw 130 to 165W. A lot of mid-range video cards
will fit within the 87W rating.
So either of your processor choices look possible. It all depends on what
the real CFM rating of the rear fan is, as to how effective the cooling
will be.
JEH wrote:
> I'm stuck between Brisbane vs Windsor processors. There's a lot on the
> net about which is better or worse, hotter or cooler, 65 nm vs 89 nm
> (whatever an "nm" is), etc, etc, etc. I think I'm on information
> overload. I've sort of narrowed my choices down to being between,
>
>> AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz for $119. at Newegg
>
> Or
>
>> AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Windsor 2.8GHz for 149. at Newegg
>
>
> I'm not into overclocking or heavy on gaming but I will be multitasking
> business applications quite heavily with dual monitors. The CPU will be
> set on a micro ATX, MSI K9NBPM2-FID in a SFF case (Microfly MX6) so I am
What is the brand name and output rating of the power supply in the
Microfly MX6 ?
> concerned a bit about heat. The biggest performance difference I can
> see is the cache size, and about .2GHz--although a big price difference
> of course. Would there really be much noticeable difference between the
> two? Any insight on which, or other CPU, choice would be greatly
> appreciated.
An increase in L2 cache from 512K to 1M makes no appreciable performance
difference in anything other than benchmarks.
Newegg has a 65W Windsor if you're concerned about heat.
Bruce Xia wrote:
> JEH wrote:
>> I'm stuck between Brisbane vs Windsor processors. There's a lot on the
>> net about which is better or worse, hotter or cooler, 65 nm vs 89 nm
>> (whatever an "nm" is), etc, etc, etc. I think I'm on information
>> overload. I've sort of narrowed my choices down to being between,
>>
>>> AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz for $119. at Newegg
>> Or
>>
>>> AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Windsor 2.8GHz for 149. at Newegg
>>
>> I'm not into overclocking or heavy on gaming but I will be multitasking
>> business applications quite heavily with dual monitors. The CPU will be
>> set on a micro ATX, MSI K9NBPM2-FID in a SFF case (Microfly MX6) so I am
>
>
> What is the brand name and output rating of the power supply in the
> Microfly MX6 ?
Ultra 600w
>
>
>> concerned a bit about heat. The biggest performance difference I can
>> see is the cache size, and about .2GHz--although a big price difference
>> of course. Would there really be much noticeable difference between the
>> two? Any insight on which, or other CPU, choice would be greatly
>> appreciated.
>
>
> An increase in L2 cache from 512K to 1M makes no appreciable performance
> difference in anything other than benchmarks.
That's one thing I was really wanting to know. The other was just
what the difference was between the Brisbane and Windsor, if any. Turns
out the Brisbane is just a newer processor(?) not necessarily a better
one it seems. I think I'm going with the 5000+ Brisbane and use the
savings on the memory.
Thanks
>> An increase in L2 cache from 512K to 1M makes no appreciable
>> performance difference in anything other than benchmarks.
>
> That's one thing I was really wanting to know.
Then you might want to look at performance tests, instead of just
accepting the answer you wanted to hear.
John Doe wrote:
> JEH <jeh@alltel.net> wrote:
>
>> Bruce Xia wrote:
>
>>> An increase in L2 cache from 512K to 1M makes no appreciable
>>> performance difference in anything other than benchmarks.
>> That's one thing I was really wanting to know.
>
> Then you might want to look at performance tests, instead of just
> accepting the answer you wanted to hear.
We can all thank Mark Bender, the no longer anonymous John Doe, for
trashing this once useful user group. He has not provided an ounce of
help and has only driven away anyone needing help.
He thinks that because a commercial vendor is providing help and
pointing to their products, not requiring anybody to purchase these
things, that this is wrong. However, take a look at all the posts
that
he has brought here from his spam on many other user groups.
Not being satisfied that he is a total loser who has been arrested
twice, he wants everyone else to be a loser as well.
The user's network (USENET) is a huge collection of noncommercial
unmoderated forums for discussion of every topic known to man (and
woman). Many newsgroups, like this one and (comp.speech.users), are
for users discussing speech recognition and providing technical help
to other users.
Advertising a commercial web site on USENET is prohibited (with
explicitly labeled exceptions). In the speech-recognition group,
microphone sellers like Martin Markoe should show respect (if it were
possible) for other sellers and regular users of speech-recognition by
following the rules:
.... in the body of your post, do not include a link to a commercial
web site if you have any commercial interest in that web site, that
includes complementary (tit-for-tat) microphone and speech-recognition
product vendor web sites.
.... if you include a signature, keep it to four lines or less.
.... you may include links to your commercial web site in a signature.
Otherwise, a spammer like Martin Markoe gets into a dispute with a
competing vendor and starts littering his posts with links to his
commercial web site. That abuse of this unmoderated USENET discussion
group frustrates other vendors and annoys speech-recognition users.
Commercial web site operators are welcome to offer help, but we have
limitations on advertising here on the unmoderated USENET in order to
keep the discussion focused on users and to keep it from
disintegrating into a commercial dogfight.
Martin Markoe (from eMicrophones, Inc) harasses and stalks others, and
he violates the privacy of innocent people who have nothing to do with
his malicious practices. By itself, Martin Markoe's willingness to
push microphones on disabled users (whose problems usually have
nothing to do with a microphone) provides insight into Martin's
malicious character.
Anyone can express his (or her) opinion here on USENET, but
advertising is not allowed except in groups specifically labeled for
selling things like *forsale* and *marketplace*.
Following are a few quotes to help illustrate the annoyance and
frustration spam from Martin Markoe (of eMicrophones, Inc) can cause
for users seeking help in this speech users group and why advertising
is prohibited here.
Marty, how come whenever someone disagrees with you, you get into this
high school urinating contest mode? Actually I can't find your
credentials anywhere either, except as a guy selling something.
Man you really are full of yourself! Just leave me alone. I asked you
a question. Silly me, I wanted to know what I was buying before I
bought it. How absurd! I then get email after email after email from
you telling me that you won't answer my question and trying to justify
it. Lets cut the crap. You won't answer my question. I won't buy from
you. So now go away and let me get USEFUL information from someone who
will be honest with me instead of evasive, devisive and insulting!
More importantly I am not here touting my business. A position which
makes anything you say suspect, doesn't it.
I have been watching this group for a long time and you have managed
to turn it into the eMicrophones, Inc. mail list. Almost no one with
expertise posts here any longer.
Is anyone else beyond annoyed with the two pathetically desperate
"small business owners" that have driven this group into the ground?
I subscribed 6 months ago hoping to learn something about the
"state-of-the-art" in voice recognition from the user's perspective.
All I've managed to learn is that most users are apparently being
ripped off by over-charging slimy weaseloid microphone hawkers.
Martin Markoe and Mr. "speaktoyourpc.com", I beg you to consider the
number of potential customers you're ****ing off before you further
demonstrate your witlessness by posting again. Your childish
King-of-the-Group games should've stopped a loooong time ago.
.... dealing with you on the newsgroups is not an easy thing and most
always turns into some type of flaming war.
.... you do get into fights with many regarding microphones and you do
wave your website around more often than necessary and you don't
always tell the truth about competitive products.
I didn't respond because I simply did not want to get into another
fight which is the reason my posts have been very light in the last
few months.
Here are my qualifications. Certified and trained for Philips
SpeechMagic, IBM ViaVoice, IBM Medspeak, Kurzweil VoiceMed, Dragon
NaturallySpeaking Enterprise & L&H VoiceXpress... So please, don't
call me a "Charlatan" because it is simply not true.
And believe me when I tell you that some users actually get better
recognition from $20 headsets than with $100 headsets.
I see vendors posting all the time and as long as you are not a member
of the newsgroup, there aren't constant one-up battles.
.... you don't see the authors in all the newsgroups in a constant
battle. Only with you Marty.
I have seen posts from you that link to as many as 8 direct links to
your website (all in one post) and your signatures fall within 5 or 10
lines long. In my book, that's called SPAMMING.
.... about 2 weeks ago, you claimed to have sold thousands of GN MPA
Satellites. I know for a fact that is not true.
Guess what Marty.... I have a life. I don't have time to live on the
newsgroups as you do.
This is the 2nd time you have mentioned me being moderated on user
groups. Last time, you apologized about confusing me with someone
else. YOU ARE OUT OF CONTROL MARTY MARKOE.
Marty, your constant abuse on these newsgroups... must come to an end.
I give up. I've dealt with delusional people like you before, and it
leads to nowhere... you continue attacking people who are FAR more
experienced and qualified than you, not to mention professional.
We can all thank Mark Bender, the no longer anonymous John Doe, for
trashing this once useful user group. He has not provided an ounce of
help and has only driven away anyone needing help.
He thinks that because a commercial vendor is providing help and
pointing to their products, not requiring anybody to purchase these
things, that this is wrong. However, take a look at all the posts
that
he has brought here from his spam on many other user groups.
Not being satisfied that he is a total loser who has been arrested
twice, he wants everyone else to be a loser as well.
John Doe is not worthless. He can always be used as a bad example.
John Doe is a professional User Group killer. His real name and
address was discovered by cross referencing his E-mail address of
several years ago (lshap...@hotmail.com) with an online ad he placed
to sell a used computer.
An investigation paid for by me revealed Mark Bender to have been
arrested twice for domestic violence and to have had a major lawsuit
against him which causes him to live in an impoverished, crack ridden
neighborhood in San Antonion, TX.He is known by his neighbors as El
Gatero Loco, the crazy cat man (and not meant affectionately).
Below my name is the Investigative report on this malacious loser
Mark
Bender.
Martin Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc
Serving the Speech Recognition community for 14 successful years
SUMMARY OF INVESTIGATION
Our office found Mr. Mark Bender's current address is 509 Frost, SATX
78201, to be owned by Ms. Gloria Trevino. There are many rental homes
in this area. Mr. Bender has never owned property. He does not own a
vehicle. He doesn't have a TX Driver's license. He does have a TX
State ID. He has been arrested twice for Assault/Family/Domestic
Violence. Both charges were dismissed. There is a possibility that
the
"Mark Bender" named in the Bexar County Civil case for damages could
be the same Mark Orrin Bender with in this report. The court
documents
would to be ordered at any additional cost to the client.
Subject Information:
Name: MARK ORRIN BENDER DOB:01/22/1957
SSN: 507-82-xxxx issued in Nebraska between 01/01/1972 and
12/31/1973
Age: 50
Criminal Records:
Texas Arrest Report:
Name: MARK BEDNER
SSN: 507-82-xxxx
Address: 5200 BLANCO RD 407, SAN ANTONIO TX 78216-7074
State of Origin: Texas
County of Origin: Bexar
Party Status: REL'D ON P-R BOND
DOB: 01/22/1957
Race: White
Sex: Male
Eyes: BLUE
Height: 5' 06"
Weight: 160
Arrests:
Arrest #1
Case Type:
Arrest Date: 01/25/1987
Arresting Agency:
Arrest Type:
Arrest Disposition Date: 01/25/1987
Court Fine: Offense: ASSAULT-BODILY INJURY
Arrest Statute:
Agency Case #: 366381
Arrest Level/Degree: Class A Misdemeanor
Arrest Disposition: BOOKED
CASE NUMBER 366381 displayed
successfully
Bexar County Criminal Justice Information System
07/24/2007
Texas Case Page
10:46:19
---------------------------------------------------------------------------**----
Court Case Number Defendant Name
Date of
CR7 366381 BEDNER,
MARK Birth
01/22/1957
Offense Description Level Sex:
MALE
02/21/1986 ASSAULT-BODILY INJURY MA Race:
WHITE
Location :
CLOSED
Last Setting: Grand Jury: 05/13/1986
FILED
Case Status: 06/29/1987 *** JN CLOSED
***
Disposition : 06/29/1987 DSMD-INTRST
JUSTCE
Defense Attorneys Bar Number Yrs Mo Dy
Hrs
MIKE HERVEY 9546500
Term:
Fine:
Court
Cost:
CASE NUMBER 348742 displayed
successfully
Bexar County Criminal Justice Information System
07/25/2007
Texas Case Page
09:57:05
---------------------------------------------------------------------------**----
Court Case Number Defendant Name
Date of
CR7 348742 BEDNER, MARK
Birth
01/22/1957
Offense Description Level Sex:
MALE
08/05/1985 ASSAULT-BODILY INJURY MA Race:
WHITE
Location :
CLOSED
Last Setting: 09/23/1985 TRIAL Grand Jury: 08/12/1985
FILED
Case Status: 08/12/1988 *** JN CLOSED
***
Disposition : 09/23/1985 DSMD-
OTHER
Judgement :
Bond: CLS 09/23/1985
800.00
Start: End: By: BAIL BONDS, PERSONAL
PROGRAM
Defense Attorneys Bar Number Yrs Mo Dy
Hrs
MERCEDES JEAN KUTCH 11770545 Term:
Fine:
Court
Cost:
Bexar Possible Civil:
Cause Nbr 1986CI10562 displayed
successfully
***** Bexar County Centralized Docket System
*****
07/24/2007 - Docket Information -
11:04:15
__________________________________________________ _________________________**
___
Selection: __ Actions: _
(A,C,D,M,P)
CASE NBR: 1986CI10562____ PRINT RT LABELS? N (Y/
N)
Date Filed: 06/12/1986 Court: 166_ Unpaid Balance:
0.00
Type of Docket: PID__ PERSONAL INJURY &
DAMAGES
* * * S T Y L E * *
*
MAX WHITMAN & HARRIET
WHITMAN_____________________
VS MARK BENDER
&_____________________________________
DISCOVERY LEVEL:
_
Account Type: __ Account Number:
____________
Access: _ PUBLIC Status: D
DISPOSED
List Type: C
CIVIL
Litigant(s) for Cause Nbr 1986CI10562 displayed
successfully
***** Bexar County Centralized Docket System
*****
07/24/2007 - Litigant Information -
11:05:23
__________________________________________________ _________________________**
___
Selection: __ Case Nbr:
1986CI10562____
Style: MAX WHITMAN & HARRIET WHITMAN vs MARK BENDER
&
Court: 166 Docket Type: PERSONAL INJURY & DAMAGES
Status:
DISPOSED
Actions: (A,D,M,P) Unpaid Balance: 0.00 Account
Number:
Seq Last /First /Middle Name Lit. Type/Attorney
Date
_ 00001 WHITMAN MAX PLAINTIFF
06/12/1986
DROZD, LINDA M
210 498-0663
_ 00002 WHITMAN HARRIET PLAINTIFF
06/12/1986
DROZD, LINDA M
210 498-0663
_ 00003 BENDER MARK DEFENDANT
06/12/1986
EZZELL, JAMES MICHAE
210 731-6300
_ 00004 DR PEPPER BOTTLING COMPANY DEFENDANT
06/12/1986
EZZELL, JAMES MICHAE
210 731-6300
Active Address(es):
MARK O BENDER - 509 FROST, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-3347, BEXAR
COUNTY (Nov 2005 - May 2007)
Current phones listed at this address:
BENDER MARK (210) 734-3107
TREVINO MICHELLE (210) 736-5743
Property Ownership Information for this Address
Property:
Parcel Number - 08441-026-0240
Lot Number - 24
Owner Name 1 - TREVINO GLORIA C
Address - 509 FROST, SAN ANTONIO TX
78201-3347, BEXAR COUNTY
Owner's Address - 509 FROST, SAN ANTONIO
TX 78201-3347, BEXAR COUNTY
Land Usage - SFR
Total Value - $79,610
Land Value - $13,230
Improvement Value - $66,380
Land Size - 9,000
Year Built - 1926
Homestead Exemption - YES
Exterior Walls - STUCCO
Roof Type - ASPHALT SHINGLE
Air Conditioning - AC.CENTRAL
Heating - FORCED AIR
Sale Price - $0
Legal Description - NCB 8441 BLK 26 LOT
24 & 25 & 26
Data Source - A
Neighborhood Profile (2000 Census)
Average Age: 37
Median Household Income: $38,438
Median Owner Occupied Home Value: $47,100
Average Years of Education: 10
Address Summary:
509 FROST, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-3347, BEXAR COUNTY (Nov 2005
-
May 2007)
4210 309 APT B, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201, BEXAR COUNTY (Dec 2002 -
Oct 2003)
4210 FREDERICKSBURG RD APT B309, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-1912,
BEXAR COUNTY (Jan 1991 - Jan 1999)
5347 BLANCO RD APT B8, SAN ANTONIO TX 78216-7027, BEXAR COUNTY
(Apr 1986 - Dec 1992)
4210 FREDERICKSBURG RD APT B316, SAN ANTONIO TX 78201-1914,
BEXAR COUNTY
7458 LOUIS PASTEUR DR APT 701, SAN ANTONIO TX 78229-4517,
BEXAR
COUNTY
AMD CPU choice 
Linear Mode
