USB2 Device attaches to USB1 Hub

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:08:06 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

>Paul wrote:
>> Jim T. wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:52:32 +0100, "GT"
>>> <ContactGT_remove_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "GT" <ContactGT_remove_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:0066e396$0$2911$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>>>>> "Jim T." <suenjim4.badaddress@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:dubtg3lher63o664ecs8m0k8lopcb9h05t@4ax.com...
>>>>>> This is a restart of my earlier post, since so many people
>>>>>> misunderstood, and gave some strange comments.
>>>>>> My printer is definitely a USB2 device. The USBInfo program knows this
>>>>>> to be true.
>>>>>> My desktop has eight ports. They are all USB2 capable, but if a device
>>>>>> is seen as only USB1, then it is connected to a built-in USB1 hub. I
>>>>>> suppose that this is done by the enumerator. All these hubs show in
>>>>>> Device Manager.
>>>>>> Anyway, Windows XP SP2 is connecting the USB2 printer to the USB1 hub,
>>>>>> thereby making it operate more slowly. Other USB2 devices are
>>>>>> connected properly, e.g. a scanner and a thumb drive. My USB hard
>>>>>> drive died.
>>>>> Original answer stands:
>>>>>
>>>>> Windows doesn't downgrade the USB hub because a USB1 device is
>>>>> plugged in. If it did that, then everything plugged into your USB
>>>>> hub would start operating at USB 1 speeds. If your device is shown
>>>>> as 'connected to a USB1 hub', then you indeed have a USB1 hub! If
>>>>> the device is shown as a USB 1 *device* plugged into a *USB2 hub*,
>>>>> then you have a USB 2 hub and either USB 1 cabling or USB 1 device.
>>>>>
>>>>> Try a different cable, try the same cable and device on another
>>>>> computer - by process of ellimination, identify the problem part,
>>>>> which is the PC, cable or printer.
>>>> Oh I forgot to say, - you said "Windows XP SP2 is connecting the USB2
>>>> printer to the USB1 hub", but your statement doesn't make sense -
>>>> only you, physically plug the device into the hub, so if it is
>>>> connected to *the USB 1 hub*, then unplug it from your USB1 hub and
>>>> plug it into your USB2 hub.
>>> Here's a long-winded discussion- sorry aboutr that
>>> There are some well informed and intentioned people on this thread,
>>> but the facts are these despite their explanations -
>>> Device Manager shows:
>>> 4 USB1 hubs with 2 ports each.
>>> 1 Enhanced (USB2) hub with eight ports
>>> The computer has eight USB jacks. That's all!
>>> The program USBInfo shows exactly the same thing - The Canon Scanner
>>> and the Thumbdrive show as USB2 devices attached to USB2 ports. The
>>> camera shows as a USB1 device attached to a USB1 port. The keyboard
>>> and mouse are attached to USB1 ports. Occasionally after returning
>>> from standby it confuses the thumb drive and says it should be
>>> connected to a USB2 port! Always OK after restart.
>>> BUT, in USBInfo the HP 5650 printer is shown as a USB2 device attached
>>> to a USB1 port. It shows as attached to a USB2 port in Device Manager.
>>> Maybe USBInfo is wrong! I've asked them but they haven't responded
>>> yet.The printer works just fine, but I think it should be faster.
>>> There's obviously logic in the hubs or in the enumerator that decides.
>>> Now what do you suggest?
>>> I have replaced all the drivers I can find. Ihave switched cables and
>>> jacks. The printer dies not move in USBInfo. Of course HP says it
>>> isn't their fault. If the info is true then I guess it's a Windows
>>> problem.
>>
>> Try Figure 25 on page 223 of this document.
>>
>> http://download.intel.com/design/chi...s/25251601.pdf
>>
>> What it shows, is four "USB 1.1 logic blocks" or UHCI.
>> At the bottom of the figure, is one "USB 2.0 logic block" or EHCI.
>>
>> Those are the total of five things you see in Device Manager.
>>
>> Now, look at the wiring. Up to 8 USB ports can be provided somewhere
>> on a typical computer case. The 8 ports are dynamically connected to the
>> five logic blocks, via the port routing logic.
>>
>> What you see in Device Manager, is the existence of the logic blocks,
>> not the Port Routing Logic state.
>>
>> If the Microsoft driver is not verbose, and won't tell us what it is
>> doing, or why, then how can there possibly be answers to every USB
>> problem ? Only the lone developer at Microsoft, knows the answer.
>>
>> Paul
>
>OK, I did some more digging.
>
>First, get a copy of UVCView.x86.exe from Microsoft. This is one of several
>programs that displays config info from plugged in USB devices. Don't
>let the title bother you, it even works with my USB mouse and ZIP250.
>
>"UVCView – Diagnostic Tool for USB Video Class Hardware"
>http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device...VCViewdwn.mspx
>
>Start it up. With your printer plugged in, you should see an entry
>for the printer. The "hub" it is on, will in fact tell you what
>the current interconnect speed is. (I.e. If it is on the hub with
>room for the most entries, that would be the USB2 logic block.)
>
>Once you've clicked on the printer entry on the left, the right pane
>will show "Device Information".
>
>The following entry, shows the current interconnect speed of the
>device. This is not necessarily the max, just what it is using
>currently. This is from my Iomega ZIP250 drive (a USB 1.1 device,
>but it is all I've got available to test with). As far as I know,
>this field is not stored in the USB device (at least, when I
>booted into Linux, and used "lsusb", there is no equivalent
>to this field).
>
> Current Config Value: 0x01 -> Device Bus Speed: Full (i.e. USB 1.1)
>
>Further down in the Device Information list, there is a second
>field of interest. It is bcdUSB. This is stored inside the peripheral,
>and declares the maximum speed of operation. Valid values are
>0100, 0110, and 0200, for USB 1.0, USB 1.1, and USB 2.0 standards.
>
> bcdUSB: 0x0110
>
>http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb5.htm
>
> "The bcdUSB field reports the highest version of USB the device supports"
>
>While this won't remedy your problem, the UVCView program will give
>you an opportunity to see whether the printer's bcdUSB is indicating
>USB 2.0 or not. If the bcdUSB is reading out as USB 1.1, then
>there is no chance of it going faster than that.
>
> Paul

Neat, and thanks. It shows "USB Printing Support" on a root hub, and
config speed as "Full", i.e. USB1. Device is deskjet 5600.
Also shows bcdUSB as 0x0200 - i.e. USB2!!
Supports my contention. My next move is to explore that driver, maybe
that's the problem. That program says things about the interface that
I don't understand, like "this may be an invalid interface protocol."
Maybe this version is a holdover from pre-USB2 support. Device manager
finds no better driver, BTW.
Again, Thanks - thats a neat program - the graphics in USBInfo are
prettier tho.