So, should I stick with the DDR3 MOBO? I would be able to afford like
6GB - 8GB of DDR2 RAM, but if I go with DDR3, I will only be able to
afford about 2GB. So what should I do? Is DDR3 really that much better?
I think your parts choices are not so good, the processor is
cheaper here, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...tel-_-19115017
the motherboard is extremely expensive for what it is,
you don't need 1000W PSU and two 8600GT video cards are
lower performance than one 8800 series which will soon be
around $240 or so, cheaper than two 8600GT.
Since the linked board uses X38 chipset, it needs DDR3
memory.
In summary you will be paying a premium for a system not
much if any faster than making different choices. Getting a
different motherboard can save $150 easily and going with
DDR2 memory another $100 or more. Getting a different video
card is no cost but a performance gain. Finally while the
PSU is decent, the system shouldn't need anything more than
a decent quality 600W PSU if that much. It is a shame Tiger
Direct's bundle includes two 8600GT video cards as they
aren't very good at all for a system costing this much.
sicc <b34nzzz@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1194912188.571661.14750@v3g2000hsg.googlegrou ps.com:
> I'm currently building myself a new computer.
> I don't know if I should go with DDR2 or DDR3 RAM.
>
> Here is what I want to do (I think), I just want some opinions before
> I order it all:
>
>
>
> CPU:
> http://www.atacom.com/program/print_...9537353_76_101
> _73_195&FCODE=IP77_CPUX&Item_code=CPUX_IP77_CD_6D& USER_ID=www
>
> MOBO:
> http://www.atacom.com/program/print_...9537353_76_101
> _73_195&Pagecode=SEARCH_ALL&Item_code=MB77_ASUS_P5 _E2&USER_ID=www
>
> Video & Power:
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...details.asp?Ed
> pNo=3478881&CatId=1558
>
>
> So, should I stick with the DDR3 MOBO? I would be able to afford like
> 6GB - 8GB of DDR2 RAM, but if I go with DDR3, I will only be able to
> afford about 2GB. So what should I do? Is DDR3 really that much
> better?
>
You could go with a motherboard that supports *both* DDR2 and DDR3 SDRAM:
This magic is accomplished by 4 DIMM slots supporting 1.8V DDR2 SDRAM and
2 DIMM 1.5V DDR3 SDRAM slots.
There is a tradeoff in this design. You can max out the DDR2 memory to
8GB and the DDR3 memory to 4GB. You do also need to put the DIMMs in the
*right* slots.
The advantage is that you can buy 4GB of DDR2 memory now and replace it
with DDR3 memory when the prices are considerably more reasonable than
where they are at the moment.
What apps are you running? Are you planning on doing video editing? I
ask because I do basic computer work currently and noticed little or no
improvement when going from 2GB to 4GB of SDRAM.
"Are you planning on doing video editing? I
> ask because I do basic computer work currently and noticed little or no
> improvement when going from 2GB to 4GB of SDRAM."
Not to sound like an idiot, but don't you need a 64bit OS to really
feel the effects of 3+ GB's of RAM?
"The advantage is that you can buy 4GB of DDR2 memory now and replace
it
> with DDR3 memory when the prices are considerably more reasonable than
> where they are at the moment."
Can you USE ddr3 and ddr2 at the same time? If so, wouldn't the DDR2
bottleneck the DDR3?
On Nov 12, 9:30 pm, Pecos <anortRemOveThIs&2...@phreego.net> wrote:
> sicc <b34n...@gmail.com> wrote innews:1194912188.571661.14750@v3g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm currently building myself a new computer.
> > I don't know if I should go with DDR2 or DDR3 RAM.
>
> > Here is what I want to do (I think), I just want some opinions before
> > I order it all:
>
> > CPU:
> >http://www.atacom.com/program/print_...9537353_76_101
> > _73_195&FCODE=IP77_CPUX&Item_code=CPUX_IP77_CD_6D& USER_ID=www
>
> > MOBO:
> >http://www.atacom.com/program/print_...9537353_76_101
> > _73_195&Pagecode=SEARCH_ALL&Item_code=MB77_ASUS_P5 _E2&USER_ID=www
>
> > Video & Power:
> >http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...details.asp?Ed
> > pNo=3478881&CatId=1558
>
> > So, should I stick with the DDR3 MOBO? I would be able to afford like
> > 6GB - 8GB of DDR2 RAM, but if I go with DDR3, I will only be able to
> > afford about 2GB. So what should I do? Is DDR3 really that much
> > better?
>
> You could go with a motherboard that supports *both* DDR2 and DDR3 SDRAM:
>
> http://www.foxconnchannel.com/news/n...D=en-us0000159
>
> This magic is accomplished by 4 DIMM slots supporting 1.8V DDR2 SDRAM and
> 2 DIMM 1.5V DDR3 SDRAM slots.
>
> There is a tradeoff in this design. You can max out the DDR2 memory to
> 8GB and the DDR3 memory to 4GB. You do also need to put the DIMMs in the
> *right* slots.
>
> The advantage is that you can buy 4GB of DDR2 memory now and replace it
> with DDR3 memory when the prices are considerably more reasonable than
> where they are at the moment.
>
> What apps are you running? Are you planning on doing video editing? I
> ask because I do basic computer work currently and noticed little or no
> improvement when going from 2GB to 4GB of SDRAM.
>
> --
> Alan "Pecos" Norton- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
On Nov 13, 2:53 am, sicc <b34n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Are you planning on doing video editing? I
>
> > ask because I do basic computer work currently and noticed little or no
> > improvement when going from 2GB to 4GB of SDRAM."
>
> Not to sound like an idiot, but don't you need a 64bit OS to really
> feel the effects of 3+ GB's of RAM?
>
> "The advantage is that you can buy 4GB of DDR2 memory now and replace
> it
>
> > with DDR3 memory when the prices are considerably more reasonable than
> > where they are at the moment."
>
> Can you USE ddr3 and ddr2 at the same time? If so, wouldn't the DDR2
> bottleneck the DDR3?
>
> On Nov 12, 9:30 pm, Pecos <anortRemOveThIs&2...@phreego.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > sicc <b34n...@gmail.com> wrote innews:1194912188.571661.14750@v3g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com:
>
> > > I'm currently building myself a new computer.
> > > I don't know if I should go with DDR2 or DDR3 RAM.
>
> > > Here is what I want to do (I think), I just want some opinions before
> > > I order it all:
>
> > > CPU:
> > >http://www.atacom.com/program/print_...9537353_76_101
> > > _73_195&FCODE=IP77_CPUX&Item_code=CPUX_IP77_CD_6D& USER_ID=www
>
> > > MOBO:
> > >http://www.atacom.com/program/print_...9537353_76_101
> > > _73_195&Pagecode=SEARCH_ALL&Item_code=MB77_ASUS_P5 _E2&USER_ID=www
>
> > > Video & Power:
> > >http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...details.asp?Ed
> > > pNo=3478881&CatId=1558
>
> > > So, should I stick with the DDR3 MOBO? I would be able to afford like
> > > 6GB - 8GB of DDR2 RAM, but if I go with DDR3, I will only be able to
> > > afford about 2GB. So what should I do? Is DDR3 really that much
> > > better?
>
> > You could go with a motherboard that supports *both* DDR2 and DDR3 SDRAM:
>
> >http://www.foxconnchannel.com/news/n...D=en-us0000159
>
> > This magic is accomplished by 4 DIMM slots supporting 1.8V DDR2 SDRAM and
> > 2 DIMM 1.5V DDR3 SDRAM slots.
>
> > There is a tradeoff in this design. You can max out the DDR2 memory to
> > 8GB and the DDR3 memory to 4GB. You do also need to put the DIMMs in the
> > *right* slots.
>
> > The advantage is that you can buy 4GB of DDR2 memory now and replace it
> > with DDR3 memory when the prices are considerably more reasonable than
> > where they are at the moment.
>
> > What apps are you running? Are you planning on doing video editing? I
> > ask because I do basic computer work currently and noticed little or no
> > improvement when going from 2GB to 4GB of SDRAM.
>
> > --
> > Alan "Pecos" Norton- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I am going to scrap my idea above. You sound like you know what you're
talking about, so I'm going to do it.
I will pick out some new hardware and then come back and post to get
opinions.
I would like some help with the graphics card though, that's where I
have the most difficulty understanding.
Please give me the link/name of the best card I can get for...say...
$300-$400
Thanks!
EDIT: Also, is my choice for quad-core acceptable? I realize(from what
I hear) that a quad core is kind of pointless at the moment because
not many apps can utilize it's power. But I figured in some months
down the road it will come in handy. Your thoughts?
sicc <b34nzzz@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1194940397.753917.316750@19g2000hsx.googlegro ups.com:
> "Are you planning on doing video editing? I
>> ask because I do basic computer work currently and noticed little or
>> no improvement when going from 2GB to 4GB of SDRAM."
>
> Not to sound like an idiot, but don't you need a 64bit OS to really
> feel the effects of 3+ GB's of RAM?
You don't sound like an idiot. You can use up to 4GB of SDRAM in a 32
bit OS but not all of the 4GB will be useful as system memory. Typically
people report 3.2-3.5 GB of useable system memory with 4 GB installed.
Anything more than 4GB requires a 64 bit OS. I am running a 64 bit
version of Window myself so if there was any real benefit from the +2GB
of extra memory I should have seen it. I don't for what I do.
> "The advantage is that you can buy 4GB of DDR2 memory now and replace
> it
>> with DDR3 memory when the prices are considerably more reasonable
>> than where they are at the moment."
>
> Can you USE ddr3 and ddr2 at the same time? If so, wouldn't the DDR2
> bottleneck the DDR3?
I don't know why you would want to do that. If you mix DIMMs with
different performance levels you will only get the performance of the
lower rated DIMM(s). At least that's how the pre X38 memory controller
hubs work. I would expect that that the X38 Northbridge works the same
way. It makes more sense to sell the DDR2 DIMMs if you want to upgrade
to DDR3 in the future. In any case, the X38 supports *up to* 8GB, so you
couldn't put 6x2GB of DDR2 and DDR3 SDRAM in the Foxconn and expect to
use all 12 GB. See:
Intel officially *does not* support DDR2 memory with the X38 Express
chipset but that hasn't stopped some motherboard manufacturers from
implementing DDR2 support.
The Foxconn page says up to 8GB of DDR2 1066/800/667MHz memory *or* 4GB
of DDR3 1333/1066/800MHz memory. You might contact their technical
support if you want more info about mixing DDR2 and DDR3 SDRAM.
sicc <b34nzzz@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1194940835.257358.222420@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com:
<snip>
> I am going to scrap my idea above. You sound like you know what you're
> talking about, so I'm going to do it.
Ha Ha! Don't make that mistake. ;-) I am still a novice in the hardware
game.
> I will pick out some new hardware and then come back and post to get
> opinions.
>
> I would like some help with the graphics card though, that's where I
> have the most difficulty understanding.
> Please give me the link/name of the best card I can get for...say...
> $300-$400
I have experienced very good customer support, products and pricing from
EVGA. They returned my rebate faster than any other manufacturer has.
For that kind of money you can get an 8800 series card, but I would only
recommend that for you if you want to do serious gaming.
You can get by with a much less expensive video card if you want to do
light gaming or basic work on your computer. I have an EVGA 128-TC-2N27-SX
Geforce 7600 GS and it is more than enough for my needs. I don't like fans
on my video card.
> EDIT: Also, is my choice for quad-core acceptable? I realize(from what
> I hear) that a quad core is kind of pointless at the moment because
> not many apps can utilize it's power. But I figured in some months
> down the road it will come in handy. Your thoughts?
You've pretty much nailed it. You are future-proofing your system and you
can run multiple single threaded apps today with a quad core. I think the
Q6600 is a great choice and it is only $75 more than what I paid for my
E6400 Core 2 Duo.
Pecos wrote:
> sicc <b34nzzz@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:1194940397.753917.316750@19g2000hsx.googlegro ups.com:
>
>> "Are you planning on doing video editing? I
>>> ask because I do basic computer work currently and noticed little or
>>> no improvement when going from 2GB to 4GB of SDRAM."
>> Not to sound like an idiot, but don't you need a 64bit OS to really
>> feel the effects of 3+ GB's of RAM?
>
> You don't sound like an idiot. You can use up to 4GB of SDRAM in a 32
> bit OS but not all of the 4GB will be useful as system memory. Typically
> people report 3.2-3.5 GB of useable system memory with 4 GB installed.
>
> Anything more than 4GB requires a 64 bit OS. I am running a 64 bit
> version of Window myself so if there was any real benefit from the +2GB
> of extra memory I should have seen it. I don't for what I do.
>
>> "The advantage is that you can buy 4GB of DDR2 memory now and replace
>> it
>>> with DDR3 memory when the prices are considerably more reasonable
>>> than where they are at the moment."
>> Can you USE ddr3 and ddr2 at the same time? If so, wouldn't the DDR2
>> bottleneck the DDR3?
>
> I don't know why you would want to do that. If you mix DIMMs with
> different performance levels you will only get the performance of the
> lower rated DIMM(s). At least that's how the pre X38 memory controller
> hubs work. I would expect that that the X38 Northbridge works the same
> way. It makes more sense to sell the DDR2 DIMMs if you want to upgrade
> to DDR3 in the future. In any case, the X38 supports *up to* 8GB, so you
> couldn't put 6x2GB of DDR2 and DDR3 SDRAM in the Foxconn and expect to
> use all 12 GB. See:
>
> http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/X38/index.htm
>
> Intel officially *does not* support DDR2 memory with the X38 Express
> chipset but that hasn't stopped some motherboard manufacturers from
> implementing DDR2 support.
>
> The Foxconn page says up to 8GB of DDR2 1066/800/667MHz memory *or* 4GB
> of DDR3 1333/1066/800MHz memory. You might contact their technical
> support if you want more info about mixing DDR2 and DDR3 SDRAM.
>
> <snip>
>
From the very page you quoted, for the X38 - both are supported:
"Dual-Channel DDR3 memory support Delivers up to 21.2 GB/s (DDR3 1333
dual 10.6 Gb/s) of bandwidth and 8 GB
memory addressability for faster system
responsiveness and support of 64-bit computing.
Dual-Channel DDR2 memory support Delivers up to 12.8 GB/s (DDR2 800 dual 6.4 GB/s)
of bandwidth and 8 GB memory addressability
for faster system responsiveness and support
of 64-bit computing."
From the X38 datasheet (31761001.pdf)
"The MCH integrates a system memory DDR2/DDR3 controller with two, 64-bit wide
interfaces. The buffers support both SSTL_1.8 (Stub Series Terminated Logic for 1.8 V)
and SSTL_1.5 (Stub Series Terminated Logic for 1.5 V) signal interfaces. The memory
controller interface is fully configurable through a set of control registers."
That means the interfaces on the Northbridge are dual voltage - only the Vdimm has to be
programmed to the correct voltage, to drive either DDR2 or DDR3, but not both at
the same time.
In this chart, what is mentioned, is that you can use DDR2 with ECC, but DDR3 doesn't
have an ECC option. I still don't understand the details of that, as to why it was
necessary. (I don't know if this is a JEDEC issue, or a chipset specific issue...)
DDR3 runs at 1.5V and DDR2 runs at 1.8V. Mixing them doesn't sound like a good idea.
Especially if you're planning on adding extra voltage to the DDR2 to make it run
better.
This article has a few benchmarks. Whether the comparison is fair, is debatable.
They use DDR2-1066 CAS5 and DDR3-1333 CAS7. SuperPI 8M performance difference
is about 1.1% faster. How much cash is that worth ?
I checked a P35 datasheet, as well as X38, and they both state that the
memory buffers support SSTL_1.5 (DDR3) and SSTL_1.8 (DDR2). But you cannot
mix memory types at the same time, on the same channel. Nor, for that matter,
could you put DDR2 on one channel and DDR3 on the other, because chip designers
don't want to put separate power rails for each channel.
This is an example of a board with 6 DIMM slots, supporting some slots with
DDR2 and some with DDR3. Reviews for this mixed DDR2 and DDR3 board aren't very good.
I saw a Powerpoint slide a while back, presented at some conference. Paraphrasing,
it said that basically the memory industry cannot make money, unless a new memory
technology is introduced slightly less than every two years. DDR3 is their
latest money grab. When the two years is up, the price drops to the point,
that they lose money on the memory they make. When you buy DDR3, you're helping
keep those guys afloat.
Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote in news:fhcol1$v0g$1@aioe.org:
<snip>
> From the very page you quoted, for the X38 - both are supported:
>
>http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/X38/index.htm
>
> "Dual-Channel DDR3 memory support Delivers up to 21.2 GB/s (DDR3
> 1333 dual 10.6 Gb/s) of bandwidth and 8 GB memory addressability for
> faster system responsiveness and support of 64-bit computing.
>
> Dual-Channel DDR2 memory support Delivers up to 12.8 GB/s (DDR2
> 800 dual 6.4 GB/s) of bandwidth and 8 GB memory addressability for
> faster system responsiveness and support of 64-bit computing."
<snip>
Hi Paul.
That is interesting since the site where I got my information states
otherwise:
With the high prices of DDR3 and the fact that you would be limited to only
2 GB of it, AND the fact that DDR3 is not in common use yet, I would
definitely sstick with DDR2.
--
---------------------
DaveW
---------------------
"sicc" <b34nzzz@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194912188.571661.14750@v3g2000hsg.googlegrou ps.com...
> I'm currently building myself a new computer.
> I don't know if I should go with DDR2 or DDR3 RAM.
>
> Here is what I want to do (I think), I just want some opinions before
> I order it all:
>
>
>
> CPU:
> http://www.atacom.com/program/print_...6D&USER_ID=www
>
> MOBO:
> http://www.atacom.com/program/print_...E2&USER_ID=www
>
> Video & Power:
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...881&CatId=1558
>
>
> So, should I stick with the DDR3 MOBO? I would be able to afford like
> 6GB - 8GB of DDR2 RAM, but if I go with DDR3, I will only be able to
> afford about 2GB. So what should I do? Is DDR3 really that much better?
>
Should I go with DDR2 or DDR3 RAM? 
Linear Mode
