I've been having some trouble with a new system (about a month old),
that spontaneously reboots, with no error messages in /var/log/syslog,
or other log files. The system will run fine for a couple of days,
and reboot 4 times the next day, sometimes rebooting again while still
running the startup scripts.
I believe the cause is two small of a power supply, having found today,
that adding another usb device prevents the system from even running
the memory check. Removing any one of the usb devices allows it to
boot, but with all present, it fails.
Primary System config ..
Mb Gigabyte EP45T-UD3LR
Cpu Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 @ 2.83GHz
Ram 2x2GB ddr3 DIMM 400 MHz (2.5 ns) (Total 4GB)
Ide
- HD Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB drive
- DVD LG GH22NP20
Sata
- 2x Seagate ST31500341AS 1500GB drives (Total 3TB)
self powered usb hub with parallel port connected to printer, usb card
reader, and usb speakers
With the above config, the system reboots at unpredictable times.
Replacing the ps2 keyboard and mouse, with a usb cordless keyboard/mouse,
the system will not boot, unless I remove the usb hub, or speakers
(after which the cordless keyboard/mouse work fine).
The system currently has a power supply rated at 500W output.
Should that be enough? Is this a bad power supply, or is it simply too
small? Would 750W be enough?
David W. Hodgins wrote:
>
> I've been having some trouble with a new system (about a month old),
> that spontaneously reboots, with no error messages in /var/log/syslog,
> or other log files. The system will run fine for a couple of days,
> and reboot 4 times the next day, sometimes rebooting again while still
> running the startup scripts.
>
> I believe the cause is two small of a power supply, having found today,
> that adding another usb device prevents the system from even running
> the memory check. Removing any one of the usb devices allows it to
> boot, but with all present, it fails.
>
> Primary System config ..
> Mb Gigabyte EP45T-UD3LR
> Cpu Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 @ 2.83GHz
> Ram 2x2GB ddr3 DIMM 400 MHz (2.5 ns) (Total 4GB)
> Ide
> - HD Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB drive
> - DVD LG GH22NP20
> Sata
> - 2x Seagate ST31500341AS 1500GB drives (Total 3TB)
>
> self powered usb hub with parallel port connected to printer, usb card
> reader, and usb speakers
>
> With the above config, the system reboots at unpredictable times.
>
> Replacing the ps2 keyboard and mouse, with a usb cordless keyboard/mouse,
> the system will not boot, unless I remove the usb hub, or speakers
> (after which the cordless keyboard/mouse work fine).
>
> The system currently has a power supply rated at 500W output.
>
> Should that be enough? Is this a bad power supply, or is it simply too
> small? Would 750W be enough?
>
> If more detailed info is needed, the full lshw output is
> at http://www.ody.ca/~dwhodgins/lshw.txt
>
> Thanks in advance.
Can you give enough info, so we can see a picture of the label on the
side of the supply. There is lots of info on there. At the very
least, the PSU make and model number. Or ideally, a URL that points
to a picture of the power supply label. Newegg has pictures that
can help with that, if the supply is new enough.
If the computer just stopped, rather than rebooting, that could mean
something different. So, you're saying the computer abruptly reboots,
regardless of what the system is doing ? Or is the system doing
"heavy computing" just before the event ? If you run a copy of
Prime95, does it happen soon after the code starts to run ? Or
are your reboots totally random, and happening even when the
system is idle ?
On a Windows system, you can set the machine to blue screen and stop
on an error. I don't know if Linux offers an option to leave a
trail of breadcrumbs or not. On Windows, you'd collect all the
crash events, and see if they were randomly distributed or
clustered around one driver. (A random distribution might suggest
a memory problem.) Running a memory test and running Prime95 later,
are examples of vetting a system, before using the computer for
serious work. (While ECC makes the detection of memory problems
easier, it isn't exactly an easy to find feature.) Prime95 is
available for both Windows and Linux, so can be run in either
environment.
Also, in your hardware list above, I don't see a video card listed.
Your lshw shows a 9600 GT. That is 25.5W idle, and 59.7W at max 3D.
I would think a 500W power supply could handle that load. But I
really want to read all the numbers off the label. There have been
some absolutely dreadful 500W supplies (ones with such weak 12V
output, that a good quality 350W beats them in real performance).
On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:30:16 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
> Can you give enough info, so we can see a picture of the label on the
> side of the supply. There is lots of info on there. At the very
> least, the PSU make and model number. Or ideally, a URL that points
> to a picture of the power supply label. Newegg has pictures that
> can help with that, if the supply is new enough.
The computer is at my sister's house, and I won't be back there till
Monday or Tuesday.
> If the computer just stopped, rather than rebooting, that could mean
> something different. So, you're saying the computer abruptly reboots,
> regardless of what the system is doing ? Or is the system doing
> "heavy computing" just before the event ? If you run a copy of
/var/log/syslog shows it rebooted at 0627 today, during which time
it would have been idle. All of the cron jobs finished by 0410.
It didn't reboot at all yesterday. The day before ...
Sep 24 12:29:22 drew643 syslogd 1.5.0: restart.
Sep 24 17:35:26 drew643 syslogd 1.5.0: restart.
Sep 24 21:43:28 drew643 syslogd 1.5.0: restart.
Sep 24 21:59:49 drew643 syslogd 1.5.0: restart.
Sep 24 22:01:32 drew643 syslogd 1.5.0: restart.
It has happened while a user was playing solitare, and when
completely idle. At present, the heaviest cpu usage is the
snapshot making a backup at 1 minute after each hour. So
far the longest the backup has taken, is 2 minutes.
> On a Windows system, you can set the machine to blue screen and stop
> on an error. I don't know if Linux offers an option to leave a
> trail of breadcrumbs or not. On Windows, you'd collect all the
> crash events, and see if they were randomly distributed or
If the problem was a software problem, I'd expect there to be a message
in /var/log/syslog, unless the system locked up in a device wait, in
which case it would not reboot without someone pressing the reset key.
> clustered around one driver. (A random distribution might suggest
> a memory problem.) Running a memory test and running Prime95 later,
I ran memtest for 24hours, and badblocks on both of the new drives.
I'd expect ram or drive errors to generate error messages in syslog.
smart is enabled on all disk drives, and isn't showing any errors
detected.
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On 2009-09-27, David W. Hodgins <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> I ran memtest for 24hours, and badblocks on both of the new drives.
I once ran memtest for 24 hours, recieved no errors, thought I had fixed
the problem, had more crashes, then ran memtest for 48 eours, and finally saw
some errors. So, I've learned that sometimes even a whole day is not
enough.
>
>> Also, in your hardware list above, I don't see a video card listed.
>> Your lshw shows a 9600 GT. That is 25.5W idle, and 59.7W at max 3D.
>
> Oversite on my part. Yes, it's a nvidia 9600GT hooked up to an lcd
> monitor.
I also have a 9600GT with 500w Antec PSU. I've never had any problems with it.
I think the nVida site recommended a 500w PSU for this particular card,
but you can check and see.
On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:58:23 -0400, "David W. Hodgins"
<dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>Oversite on my part. Yes, it's a nvidia 9600GT hooked up to an lcd
>monitor.
>
>> I would think a 500W power supply could handle that load. But I
>> really want to read all the numbers off the label. There have been
>
>I'll get those numbers off of the power supply itself on Mon. or Tues.
>
>> some absolutely dreadful 500W supplies (ones with such weak 12V
>> output, that a good quality 350W beats them in real performance).
>> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...s_7.html#sect0
With the present system config it's probably drawing about
250W watts or so from the wall, so if your psu were roughly
75% efficient that puts it in the ballpark of 188W.
The real question is as Paul mentioned, how good the PSU is
(asuming a modern design with bias towards more 12V current
rather than maximum 5V current that old generations of PSU
were designed towards), as a decent, accurately rated 400W
PSU with plenty of current on the 12V rail should power the
system fine.
On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 01:37:37 -0400, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
> The real question is as Paul mentioned, how good the PSU is
> (asuming a modern design with bias towards more 12V current
> rather than maximum 5V current that old generations of PSU
> were designed towards), as a decent, accurately rated 400W
> PSU with plenty of current on the 12V rail should power the
> system fine.
Interesting. When I first got the system, it had a sata dvd
drive, which died after about 2 weeks. It was replaced with
an ide dvd drive (as the source only had ide drives that had
connectors for the audio card, which linux requires). The
reboot problems only started after replacing the sata dvd drive,
which I gather runs off of the 12V rail, with an ide one, which
I understand runs off of the 5V rail.
My current guess, is that this brand new power supply doesn't
have enough output on the 5V rail, to handle an ide hard drive,
an ide dvd drive, plus usb devices.
Given the times of day when it tends to fail, my guess is the
input voltage is dropping too low. In this area, I've seen the
input AC voltage vary between 112VAC, and 128VAC.
I think I will take the system back to the provider, and demand
a higher wattage power supply, particularly on the 5V rail.
Regards, Dave Hodgins
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On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:22:25 -0400, ShadowTek <ShadowTek@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> I also have a 9600GT with 500w Antec PSU. I've never had any problems with it.
Thanks for the info.
I've had a lot of problems with it. I'm hoping it turns out the power
supply turns out to be the cause. Right now, in order to try and get
the system stable, I'm running a 32bit desktop kernel, with the vesa
video driver, resulting in 1.5GB of ram not being used, and any programs
requiring advanced graphic capabilities, not being usable.
This system should be able to run a 64bit kernel, with the latest
nvidia drivers, but currently it is just not stable.
I've decided to replace to power supply. If that makes it stop
randomly rebooting, I'll try the latest nvidia driver. If that
works, I'll switch to a 32 bit kernel with highmem support. If
that works, I'll install a 64 bit system kernel.
Regards, Dave Hodgins
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On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:33:13 -0400, "David W. Hodgins"
<dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 01:37:37 -0400, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>> The real question is as Paul mentioned, how good the PSU is
>> (asuming a modern design with bias towards more 12V current
>> rather than maximum 5V current that old generations of PSU
>> were designed towards), as a decent, accurately rated 400W
>> PSU with plenty of current on the 12V rail should power the
>> system fine.
>
>Interesting. When I first got the system, it had a sata dvd
>drive, which died after about 2 weeks. It was replaced with
>an ide dvd drive (as the source only had ide drives that had
>connectors for the audio card, which linux requires). The
>reboot problems only started after replacing the sata dvd drive,
>which I gather runs off of the 12V rail, with an ide one, which
>I understand runs off of the 5V rail.
>
>My current guess, is that this brand new power supply doesn't
>have enough output on the 5V rail, to handle an ide hard drive,
>an ide dvd drive, plus usb devices.
>
That is unlikely, in modern systems there is ample 5V rail
capacity unused. However, if your PS2 or USB ports are
using 5VSB, that can be an issue, and some mobos have
jumpers to select whether it uses 5VSB or 5V, always select
5V instead of 5VSB if your use/needs allow that.
>Given the times of day when it tends to fail, my guess is the
>input voltage is dropping too low. In this area, I've seen the
>input AC voltage vary between 112VAC, and 128VAC.
If the PSU is accurately rated, 112VAC is still higher than
it would need to be. Decent PSU should still be fine down
to about 90VAC. Granted, their max output with all else
equal is lower, but still far higher than the listed system
should need.
>
>I think I will take the system back to the provider, and demand
>a higher wattage power supply, particularly on the 5V rail.
>
>Regards, Dave Hodgins
I do not think limitation on the 5V rail is the problem.
That is an extremely rare/uncommon issue, more often too
little load on that rail plus a psu that is an old design,
regulating with too much bias on the 5V rail is the problem.
We can collect evidence though, a multimeter measuring 3.3V,
5V, and 12V current while the system is under 100% load is a
good start.
On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:30:16 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
> Can you give enough info, so we can see a picture of the label on the
I had another look at the system today.
I can't read the brand. It looks like MIOS, in a large script, that's
mostly covered by the edge of the case. The info on the label is ...
MIOS switching power supply
Model No. KY-500ATX
AC INPUT 115/230V~7A/4A,50-60Hz
OUTPUT:500W
+3.3V +5V +12V +5VSB
30.0A 32.0A 0.5A 2.0A
Strange that it says on the label it's 500W, but all of the KY-500ATX
models I find on google say that model number is a 400W power supply.
With three usb devices connected, turning the machine on causes it
to cycle through the post up to the point where it should be checking
the ram, and then it reboots.
Removing any one of the three devices allows it to boot.
I measured the voltages on wires going to an unused power connector
both with the three usb devices connected, and without any usb devices.
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This power supply doesn't even come close. I'm surprised it
boots at all.
Regards, Dave Hodgins
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Recommended power supply wattage. 
Linear Mode
