First thing to do is to disconnect all USB devices, because any faulty USB devices will affect boot up.
The first goal is to get bios POST... Power On Self test 'known as bios boot', this you will get and be able to get into bios screen if so wished with just the CPU, RAM and Graphic card only... the rest inc. the hard drive can be unhooked.
The hard drive does not come into play until after the bios boot up, it then gives a bleep saying all is ok handing the control over to the CPU, only now does the hard drive come into play.
If you are not getting the bios to 'boot' nothing else will happen... so we are looking at a duff bios battery, faulty power supply, faulty video card, faulty mobo usually due to bad caps.... or the CPU itself, this is the very last option to consider after all other options have been exhausted, as damage can easily be done as it's not a matter of removing it and refitting.
As a guess I would say either the bios battery or the power supply, any of the above are worthy of trying by substitution, sometimes removing and refitting the video card works strange wonders.
Somewhere on the interweb "kony" typed:
> On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 06:22:28 -0700, Dundonald
> <mark.dundon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > I have a pre-built mesh computer with:
> >
> > BIOS: American Megatrends AMI BIOS version 0908
> > Motherboard: ASUSTek Computer Inc. A8N-VM
> > CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3200 (2000 MHZ) Venice S939
> >
>
> What PSU make/model/ratings?
>
>
>
> > Does this board tally up with your guess above? When the incident
> > happened I wasn't plugging anything in, I was playing a game, and it
> > just froze dead.
>
>
> Having to unplug the PSU from AC power shows it had shut
> itself off either from it's own failure or a failure of
> connected components. What remains is to determine which is
> the cause. Is anything under warranty still? If not you
> might pull the PSU and leaving unplugged for awhile, open
> and inspect it (failed capacitors being most likely).
>
> A basic inspection of all system internals is also prudent,
> especially capacitors on the motherboard and video card, and
> checking that all cards are fully inserted into their
> respective slots including memory, video, etc. Also check
> whether the video card fan spins freely or if it might've
> seized and allowed video card to overheat.
>
> Since you are a gamer/were-gaming it seems a bit more likely
> (than otherwise) the stress on the video card could have
> damaged it (if there were some problem with it already), you
> might pull the video card and see how the system reacts,
> substituting some other video card if possible... even an
> ancient PCI video card would suffice
No need to substitute, the mobo has integrated graphics, pulling the video
card should let it boot up using on-board. Of course, if he's using on-board
(GeForce 6150) then he can't "pull the graphics card". It's a reasonable
mobo, my money's on PSU or serious dust buildup/fan/CPU failure.
--
TTFN
Shaun.
> but ultimately the
> safest course is to not try to power the system with this
> PSU yet until you know if it's operating properly including
> inspection and taking voltage readings with a multimeter.
Somewhere on the interweb "davy" typed:
> First thing to do is to disconnect all USB devices, because any faulty
> USB devices will affect boot up.
>
> The first goal is to get bios POST... Power On Self test 'known as
> bios boot', this you will get and be able to get into bios screen if
> so wished with just the CPU, RAM and Graphic card only... the rest
> inc. the hard drive can be unhooked.
>
> The hard drive does not come into play until after the bios boot up,
> it then gives a bleep saying all is ok handing the control over to
> the CPU, only now does the hard drive come into play.
>
> If you are not getting the bios to 'boot' nothing else will happen...
> so we are looking at a duff bios battery, faulty power supply, faulty
> video card, faulty mobo usually due to bad caps.... or the CPU itself,
> this is the very last option to consider after all other options have
> been exhausted, as damage can easily be done as it's not a matter of
> removing it and refitting.
>
> As a guess I would say either the bios battery
??????
I have seen a lot of mobos with flat BIOS batteries before and they *never*
behave as this machine is. They always boot into BIOS and say something like
"New CPU fitted" or "CMOS not loaded" or they boot into the OS but show a
date years ago and look for drivers for anything that was previously
disabled in BIOS.
--
TTFN
Shaun.
> or the power supply,
> any of the above are worthy of trying by substitution, sometimes
> removing and refitting the video card works strange wonders.
>
> Examples of 'bad caps' see... 'Bad caps in mobos.'
> (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Edoniteli/index27.htm)
>
> Davy
On 3 Nov, 23:47, davy <davy.2zh...@no.email.invalid> wrote:
> First thing to do is to disconnect all USB devices, because any faulty
> USB devices will affect boot up
>
> The first goal is to get bios POST... Power On Self test 'known as bios
> boot', this you will get and be able to get into bios screen if so
> wished with just the CPU, RAM and Graphic card only... the rest inc. the
> hard drive can be unhooked.
>
> The hard drive does not come into play until after the bios boot up, it
> then gives a bleep saying all is ok handing the control over to the CPU,
> only now does the hard drive come into play.
>
> If you are not getting the bios to 'boot' nothing else will happen...
> so we are looking at a duff bios battery, faulty power supply, faulty
> video card, faulty mobo usually due to bad caps.... or the CPU itself,
> this is the very last option to consider after all other options have
> been exhausted, as damage can easily be done as it's not a matter of
> removing it and refitting.
>
> As I guess I would say either the bios battery or the power supply, any
> of the above are worthy of trying by substitution, sometimes removing
> and refitting the video card works strange wonders.
>
> Davy
Thanks Davy I will try a few tests in the order that you suggest, and
report back.
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 09:29:24 -0800, Dundonald
<mark.dundon@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 3 Nov, 23:47, davy <davy.2zh...@no.email.invalid> wrote:
>> First thing to do is to disconnect all USB devices, because any faulty
>> USB devices will affect boot up
>>
>> The first goal is to get bios POST... Power On Self test 'known as bios
>> boot', this you will get and be able to get into bios screen if so
>> wished with just the CPU, RAM and Graphic card only... the rest inc. the
>> hard drive can be unhooked.
>>
>> The hard drive does not come into play until after the bios boot up, it
>> then gives a bleep saying all is ok handing the control over to the CPU,
>> only now does the hard drive come into play.
>>
>> If you are not getting the bios to 'boot' nothing else will happen...
>> so we are looking at a duff bios battery, faulty power supply, faulty
>> video card, faulty mobo usually due to bad caps.... or the CPU itself,
>> this is the very last option to consider after all other options have
>> been exhausted, as damage can easily be done as it's not a matter of
>> removing it and refitting.
>>
>> As I guess I would say either the bios battery or the power supply, any
>> of the above are worthy of trying by substitution, sometimes removing
>> and refitting the video card works strange wonders.
>>
>> Davy
>
>Thanks Davy I will try a few tests in the order that you suggest, and
>report back.
Dead battery won't shut the machine off like it did.
Hard drive isn't a factor either, just unplug it for now.
Odds are the PSU is dying and the system should not be
operated until you can independantly test the PSU - because
with it not putting out stable power, your parts are getting
who-knows-what quality of power.
On 4 Nov, 08:40, "~misfit~" <misfit6...@yahooligans.co.nz> wrote:
> Somewhere on the interweb "kony" typed:
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 06:22:28 -0700, Dundonald
> > <mark.dun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I have a pre-built mesh computer with:
>
> > > BIOS: American Megatrends AMI BIOS version 0908
> > > Motherboard: ASUSTek Computer Inc. A8N-VM
> > > CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3200 (2000 MHZ) Venice S939
>
> > What PSU make/model/ratings?
>
> > > Does this board tally up with your guess above? When the incident
> > > happened I wasn't plugging anything in, I was playing a game, and it
> > > just froze dead.
>
> > Having to unplug the PSU from AC power shows it had shut
> > itself off either from it's own failure or a failure of
> > connected components. What remains is to determine which is
> > the cause. Is anything under warranty still? If not you
> > might pull the PSU and leaving unplugged for awhile, open
> > and inspect it (failed capacitors being most likely).
>
> > A basic inspection of all system internals is also prudent,
> > especially capacitors on the motherboard and video card, and
> > checking that all cards are fully inserted into their
> > respective slots including memory, video, etc. Also check
> > whether the video card fan spins freely or if it might've
> > seized and allowed video card to overheat.
>
> > Since you are a gamer/were-gaming it seems a bit more likely
> > (than otherwise) the stress on the video card could have
> > damaged it (if there were some problem with it already), you
> > might pull the video card and see how the system reacts,
> > substituting some other video card if possible... even an
> > ancient PCI video card would suffice
>
> No need to substitute, the mobo has integrated graphics, pulling the video
> card should let it boot up using on-board. Of course, if he's using on-board
> (GeForce 6150) then he can't "pull the graphics card". It's a reasonable
> mobo, my money's on PSU or serious dust buildup/fan/CPU failure.
> --
> TTFN
>
> Shaun.
Hi Shaun, thanks for your post. I pulled out the graphics card and I
have plugged the monitor in to the on board video. Still same
problem, as in, the power is automatically on when switched on at the
mains or at the back of the PSU. So I guess that rules out graphics
card. I checked graphic card fan and it rotates fine, as do all other
fans in the desktop. So out of interest when you say PSU, I'm trying
to understand what might cause the power to always be on. Is it that
the PSU is ignoring the toggle on / off switch ? On a previous test I
unhooked the toggle on /off switch cable at the motherboard. Is it a
common problem that PSU's fail on 'modern' machines? My last computer
before it was replaced last year by this desktop was 8 years old and
didn't have a problem with PSU.
About dust build - I did notice a bit of dust inside the desktop, on
the fans particularly, so I gave most things a quick clean. I'm
interested where else might cause problems with dust.
I took the heat sinc off the CPU to check for any obvious heat damage
and it looks OK.
> > but ultimately the
> > safest course is to not try to power the system with this
> > PSU yet until you know if it's operating properly including
> > inspection and taking voltage readings with a multimeter.
On 3 Nov, 23:47, davy <davy.2zh...@no.email.invalid> wrote:
First of all thanks for your post here's a response to your suggested
tests.
> First thing to do is to disconnect all USB devices, because any faulty
> USB devices will affect boot up
Done.
> The first goal is to get bios POST... Power On Self test 'known as bios
> boot', this you will get and be able to get into bios screen if so
> wished with just the CPU, RAM and Graphic card only... the rest inc. the
> hard drive can be unhooked.
Done.
> The hard drive does not come into play until after the bios boot up, it
> then gives a bleep saying all is ok handing the control over to the CPU,
> only now does the hard drive come into play.
> If you are not getting the bios to 'boot' nothing else will happen...
> so we are looking at a duff bios battery, faulty power supply, faulty
> video card, faulty mobo usually due to bad caps.... or the CPU itself,
> this is the very last option to consider after all other options have
> been exhausted, as damage can easily be done as it's not a matter of
> removing it and refitting.
I unhooked graphic card, plugging monitor in to onboard video and had
same problem. (I didn't unhook the HD but that doesn't spin anyway so
it's not getting as far as HD). I have 2 x 512mb ram so I also took
one out at a time to test each one. I checked CPU by taking off the
heat sinc and found no obvious signs of damange. All fans seem to be
rotating OK. All these tests and still same problem. BIOS doesn't
come up, and no signal to the monitor. And as soon as I switch power
on to the PC it's as if the power is immediately on, as in, I don't
need to push the toggle on/off button at the front to start.
So is the onus on fault PSU? Suggest buying a replacement PSU and
testing again?
> As I guess I would say either the bios battery or the power supply, any
> of the above are worthy of trying by substitution, sometimes removing
> and refitting the video card works strange wonders.
>
> Davy
Somewhere on the interweb "Dundonald" typed:
> On 4 Nov, 08:40, "~misfit~" <misfit6...@yahooligans.co.nz> wrote:
> > Somewhere on the interweb "kony" typed:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 06:22:28 -0700, Dundonald
> > > <mark.dun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > I have a pre-built mesh computer with:
> >
> > > > BIOS: American Megatrends AMI BIOS version 0908
> > > > Motherboard: ASUSTek Computer Inc. A8N-VM
> > > > CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3200 (2000 MHZ) Venice S939
> >
> > > What PSU make/model/ratings?
> >
> > > > Does this board tally up with your guess above? When the
> > > > incident happened I wasn't plugging anything in, I was playing
> > > > a game, and it just froze dead.
> >
> > > Having to unplug the PSU from AC power shows it had shut
> > > itself off either from it's own failure or a failure of
> > > connected components. What remains is to determine which is
> > > the cause. Is anything under warranty still? If not you
> > > might pull the PSU and leaving unplugged for awhile, open
> > > and inspect it (failed capacitors being most likely).
> >
> > > A basic inspection of all system internals is also prudent,
> > > especially capacitors on the motherboard and video card, and
> > > checking that all cards are fully inserted into their
> > > respective slots including memory, video, etc. Also check
> > > whether the video card fan spins freely or if it might've
> > > seized and allowed video card to overheat.
> >
> > > Since you are a gamer/were-gaming it seems a bit more likely
> > > (than otherwise) the stress on the video card could have
> > > damaged it (if there were some problem with it already), you
> > > might pull the video card and see how the system reacts,
> > > substituting some other video card if possible... even an
> > > ancient PCI video card would suffice
> >
> > No need to substitute, the mobo has integrated graphics, pulling
> > the video card should let it boot up using on-board. Of course, if
> > he's using on-board (GeForce 6150) then he can't "pull the graphics
> > card". It's a reasonable mobo, my money's on PSU or serious dust
> > buildup/fan/CPU failure. --
> > TTFN
> >
> > Shaun.
>
> Hi Shaun, thanks for your post. I pulled out the graphics card and I
> have plugged the monitor in to the on board video. Still same
> problem, as in, the power is automatically on when switched on at the
> mains or at the back of the PSU. So I guess that rules out graphics
> card. I checked graphic card fan and it rotates fine, as do all other
> fans in the desktop. So out of interest when you say PSU, I'm trying
> to understand what might cause the power to always be on. Is it that
> the PSU is ignoring the toggle on / off switch ? On a previous test I
> unhooked the toggle on /off switch cable at the motherboard. Is it a
> common problem that PSU's fail on 'modern' machines? My last computer
> before it was replaced last year by this desktop was 8 years old and
> didn't have a problem with PSU.
Ahh, the old days! An 8 year old computer probably sucked less than a
quarter of the power that this one does, the PSU was never stressed.
One other thing I suggest that you try; Disconnect the reset switch from the
mobo. It's flukey I know but sometimes they stick in the closed position....
> About dust build - I did notice a bit of dust inside the desktop, on
> the fans particularly, so I gave most things a quick clean. I'm
> interested where else might cause problems with dust.
Usually in/around the RAM and the power MOSFETs. It gets pushed in and
around that area by the CPU fan. Doesn't hurt, if you can afford it, to
spray the whole mobo with CO cleaner and let it run off and evaporate.
Concentrate on any areas where there are ICs with small pins/legs that are
dust-clogged too. Do that with the RAM and cards removed and spray into the
slots too. It's "fixed" machines for me before.
> I took the heat sinc off the CPU to check for any obvious heat damage
> and it looks OK.
On 5 Nov, 10:56, "~misfit~" <misfit6...@yahooligans.co.nz> wrote:
> Somewhere on the interweb "Dundonald" typed:
>
>
>
> > On 4 Nov, 08:40, "~misfit~" <misfit6...@yahooligans.co.nz> wrote:
> > > Somewhere on the interweb "kony" typed:
>
> > > > On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 06:22:28 -0700, Dundonald
> > > > <mark.dun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I have a pre-built mesh computer with:
>
> > > > > BIOS: American Megatrends AMI BIOS version 0908
> > > > > Motherboard: ASUSTek Computer Inc. A8N-VM
> > > > > CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3200 (2000 MHZ) Venice S939
>
> > > > What PSU make/model/ratings?
>
> > > > > Does this board tally up with your guess above? When the
> > > > > incident happened I wasn't plugging anything in, I was playing
> > > > > a game, and it just froze dead.
>
> > > > Having to unplug the PSU from AC power shows it had shut
> > > > itself off either from it's own failure or a failure of
> > > > connected components. What remains is to determine which is
> > > > the cause. Is anything under warranty still? If not you
> > > > might pull the PSU and leaving unplugged for awhile, open
> > > > and inspect it (failed capacitors being most likely).
>
> > > > A basic inspection of all system internals is also prudent,
> > > > especially capacitors on the motherboard and video card, and
> > > > checking that all cards are fully inserted into their
> > > > respective slots including memory, video, etc. Also check
> > > > whether the video card fan spins freely or if it might've
> > > > seized and allowed video card to overheat.
>
> > > > Since you are a gamer/were-gaming it seems a bit more likely
> > > > (than otherwise) the stress on the video card could have
> > > > damaged it (if there were some problem with it already), you
> > > > might pull the video card and see how the system reacts,
> > > > substituting some other video card if possible... even an
> > > > ancient PCI video card would suffice
>
> > > No need to substitute, the mobo has integrated graphics, pulling
> > > the video card should let it boot up using on-board. Of course, if
> > > he's using on-board (GeForce 6150) then he can't "pull the graphics
> > > card". It's a reasonable mobo, my money's on PSU or serious dust
> > > buildup/fan/CPU failure. --
> > > TTFN
>
> > > Shaun.
>
> > Hi Shaun, thanks for your post. I pulled out the graphics card and I
> > have plugged the monitor in to the on board video. Still same
> > problem, as in, the power is automatically on when switched on at the
> > mains or at the back of the PSU. So I guess that rules out graphics
> > card. I checked graphic card fan and it rotates fine, as do all other
> > fans in the desktop. So out of interest when you say PSU, I'm trying
> > to understand what might cause the power to always be on. Is it that
> > the PSU is ignoring the toggle on / off switch ? On a previous test I
> > unhooked the toggle on /off switch cable at the motherboard. Is it a
> > common problem that PSU's fail on 'modern' machines? My last computer
> > before it was replaced last year by this desktop was 8 years old and
> > didn't have a problem with PSU.
>
> Ahh, the old days! An 8 year old computer probably sucked less than a
> quarter of the power that this one does, the PSU was never stressed.
Good point.
> One other thing I suggest that you try; Disconnect the reset switch from the
> mobo. It's flukey I know but sometimes they stick in the closed position....
Aye as a previous test I unhooked the cables at the motherboard and
last night I also took the front facia off of the case and toggled the
switch manually. Still the same problem
> > About dust build - I did notice a bit of dust inside the desktop, on
> > the fans particularly, so I gave most things a quick clean. I'm
> > interested where else might cause problems with dust.
>
> Usually in/around the RAM and the power MOSFETs. It gets pushed in and
> around that area by the CPU fan. Doesn't hurt, if you can afford it, to
> spray the whole mobo with CO cleaner and let it run off and evaporate.
> Concentrate on any areas where there are ICs with small pins/legs that are
> dust-clogged too. Do that with the RAM and cards removed and spray into the
> slots too. It's "fixed" machines for me before.
>
> > I took the heat sinc off the CPU to check for any obvious heat damage
> > and it looks OK.
>
> Cool. <g>
>
> Good luck,
ta. I'm going to try out a new PSU tonight I think, see if that fixes
the problem.
On 4 Nov, 11:03, "~misfit~" <misfit6...@yahooligans.co.nz> wrote:
> Somewhere on the interweb "davy" typed:
>
>
>
> > First thing to do is to disconnect all USB devices, because any faulty
> > USB devices will affect boot up.
>
> > The first goal is to get bios POST... Power On Self test 'known as
> > bios boot', this you will get and be able to get into bios screen if
> > so wished with just the CPU, RAM and Graphic card only... the rest
> > inc. the hard drive can be unhooked.
>
> > The hard drive does not come into play until after the bios boot up,
> > it then gives a bleep saying all is ok handing the control over to
> > the CPU, only now does the hard drive come into play.
>
> > If you are not getting the bios to 'boot' nothing else will happen...
> > so we are looking at a duff bios battery, faulty power supply, faulty
> > video card, faulty mobo usually due to bad caps.... or the CPU itself,
> > this is the very last option to consider after all other options have
> > been exhausted, as damage can easily be done as it's not a matter of
> > removing it and refitting.
>
> > As a guess I would say either the bios battery
>
> ??????
>
> I have seen a lot of mobos with flat BIOS batteries before and they *never*
> behave as this machine is. They always boot into BIOS and say something like
> "New CPU fitted" or "CMOS not loaded" or they boot into the OS but show a
> date years ago and look for drivers for anything that was previously
> disabled in BIOS.
> --
> TTFN
>
> Shaun.
>
> > or the power supply,
> > any of the above are worthy of trying by substitution, sometimes
> > removing and refitting the video card works strange wonders.
>
> > Examples of 'bad caps' see... 'Bad caps in mobos.'
> > (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Edoniteli/index27.htm)
OK Update everyone.
I finally got a bit of time to get out and buy a PSU. So I installed
the PSU and this sorted the problem with the unit not switching on /
off properly i.e. when I switch off at the back of the PSU or unplug
the mains then switch on at mains or back on at the back of the PSU
the computer is no longer immediately on, I have to push the power
on / off switch to switch it one, which is good.
HOWEVER - after pressing the switch and turning power on, the same
problem as before, as in no BIOS boot. SO I unplugged everything from
the motherboard bar the main power cable and the fan cables. The
monitor keyboard and mouse cables were connected at the back. So no
CD drive, no floppy, no HD, no nothing connected to motherboard. I
Switch on, and still, same problem. So, what is the problem:
1. flat battery on the motherboard?
2. motherboard dead?
3. CPU dead?
There are no visible signs of failure on the motherboard or on the CPU
if I take off the heat sinc and fan.
Linear Mode
