> This may be a long shot, but try cleaning up any startup
> related software/OS drivers. Especially keyboard related,
> and in your case anything that might be connected to,
> wake on LAN, or such.
How could ANY software/OS cause the PC to freeze during POST?
"Maurice Batey" <maurice@bcs.removethis.org.uk> wrote in message
newsan.2007.08.29.18.26.25.243690@bcs.removethis .org.uk...
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:35:00 -0500, Ken Maltby wrote:
>
>> Try replacing your keyboard
>
> Even if most lockups occurred during mouse-only op's?
>
> --
> Maurice
> (Remove 'removethis.' to reply by email)
>
I must have missed where you mentioned that, earlier.
It wouldn't matter anyway. There are checks and options
that involve startup that both the BIOS and the OS do
with the keyboard interface. These are mostly hardware
checks but they are controlled by both firmware (CMOS)
and software. There are similar startup related issues
for the Ethernet adapters.
"Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message
news:JkiBi.104337$rX4.39427@pd7urf2no...
>> This may be a long shot, but try cleaning up any startup
>> related software/OS drivers. Especially keyboard related,
>> and in your case anything that might be connected to,
>> wake on LAN, or such.
>
> How could ANY software/OS cause the PC to freeze during POST?
>
The OP was that it was "Inconsistent" and happening
"within 4 min. of cold power up" and "on ONE occasion
it locked up in the middle of entering the BIOS password".
But to answer -your- question; in the same way a boot
block virus works. There is more interaction possible
than you appear to be aware of. Also; remember that
"Press F6 to load" RAID software drivers during XP
install? , there are a number of startup functions after
POST. Failure of some of them would be occurring
during the 4 min mentioned.
Oh, and a limited keyboard check is part of POST.
If the firmware inside an enhanced keyboard were to
be damaged by some driver setting, it could cause a
malfunction, perhaps one that causes locks up during
startup.
And lastly, I suggest you research the definition of the
term "Long Shot".
"Maurice Batey" <maurice@bcs.removethis.org.uk> wrote in message
newsan.2007.08.29.18.25.01.697187@bcs.removethis .org.uk...
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:24:39 -0500, Ken Maltby wrote:
>
>> startup related software/OS drivers.
>
> In the BIOS? Wouldn't know where to start looking.
>
> Problem is not operating system related, as one lockup occurred during
> entry
> of BIOS password.
>
> --
> Maurice
> (Remove 'removethis.' to reply by email)
>
Well you could start with any BIOS startup options
like "Wake on LAN", perhaps other power management
settings, as well.
Placing a single or unrepeated/unrepeatable occurrence
into the differential should be as an unproved variable.
The OS can apply hardware drivers that can effect
firmware that can effect or be used by the BIOS. Not
to mention the possibility of effecting the BIOS itself.
Look, you can totally ignore my post, no skin off my
nose. I was just relating what I found to be the cause
in a particularly aggravating and counter to routine
troubleshooting experience, that involved a startup
problem. I ran through 3 MB and 3 Power Supplies
as well as 2 different Antec cases (and no case) and
only stumbled across the keyboard connection by
accident.
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:18:22 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
<kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>"Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message
>news:VUZAi.101085$rX4.33391@pd7urf2no...
>>>> (Inconsistent symptoms, but machine always locks up within 4 minutes of
>>>> cold
>>>> power up, regardless of which operating system is being booted.
>>>> In fact, on one occasion it locked up in the middle of entering the
>>>> BIOS
>>>> password. Commencement of problem coincided with starting to use
>>>> broadband
>>>> (connected to router by ethernet cable). Tried replacing use of Realtek
>>>> ethernet
>>>> controller with Intel Gigabit PCI ethernet card. No problem if keep PC
>>>> switched on permanently)
>>
>> I would suspect a faulty PSU, or failing capacitors on your mainboard.
>>
>
> Have you and "Grinder" been replaced by "kony" clones?
>
> Not an overheating problem.
You're welcome to find all the posts where I suggested
overheating as the most likely problem, or do you realize
you'd appear as a troll when you couldn't come up with
anything recent except for that router debate and something
directly related like a fan failing?
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:18:02 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
<kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>"Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message
>news:JkiBi.104337$rX4.39427@pd7urf2no...
>>> This may be a long shot, but try cleaning up any startup
>>> related software/OS drivers. Especially keyboard related,
>>> and in your case anything that might be connected to,
>>> wake on LAN, or such.
>>
>> How could ANY software/OS cause the PC to freeze during POST?
>>
>
> The OP was that it was "Inconsistent" and happening
>"within 4 min. of cold power up" and "on ONE occasion
>it locked up in the middle of entering the BIOS password".
>
> But to answer -your- question; in the same way a boot
>block virus works. There is more interaction possible
>than you appear to be aware of.
There is less interaction possible than /you/ appear to be
aware of. A boot block virus isn't running until the system
attempts to boot from that drive. This system is showing
instability prior to that point, even locking up entering
the bios menus so Noozer is correct.
There's not any point thinking about software problems until
the hardware stability is regained.
Cold power up problems tend to be either power supply, flaky
motherboard capacitors, a bad mechanical connection or a PCB
problem such as bad solder joints or board cracks, though
the former two are a lot more common than the latter two.
"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:j9qbd3d0354a01npsscbl4af8hstl7h4au@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:18:02 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
> <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message
>>news:JkiBi.104337$rX4.39427@pd7urf2no...
>>>> This may be a long shot, but try cleaning up any startup
>>>> related software/OS drivers. Especially keyboard related,
>>>> and in your case anything that might be connected to,
>>>> wake on LAN, or such.
>>>
>>> How could ANY software/OS cause the PC to freeze during POST?
>>>
>>
>> The OP was that it was "Inconsistent" and happening
>>"within 4 min. of cold power up" and "on ONE occasion
>>it locked up in the middle of entering the BIOS password".
>>
>> But to answer -your- question; in the same way a boot
>>block virus works. There is more interaction possible
>>than you appear to be aware of.
>
> There is less interaction possible than /you/ appear to be
> aware of. A boot block virus isn't running until the system
> attempts to boot from that drive.
Which occurs right after the POST, well within the 4min.
mentioned.
You are aware that there are programs that even rewrite
the BIOS from XP? If interaction at the level of totally
rewriting the BIOS are possible, why do you find it so hard
to understand that some of the data that the BIOS must
use can also be changed, is it just because I'm the one
pointing it out?
But I would also direct you to any definition of the term
"Long Shot". This is based on an actual startup problem
I had with one system of mine, and it did turn out to be
caused by a keyboard driver problem. It would lock
things up so that it wouldn't even POST. Pressing the
Power Button or shorting the pins wouldn't start the sys,
even with the little green light on the MB glowing.
I have no way of knowing if this has anything to do
with the OP's problem, but it is possible. It is a long
shot worth the trouble of plugging in a different simple
keyboard. (One not designed to work with whatever
enhanced drivers there may be on the problem sys.)
Re: Hardware problem 
an.2007.08.29.18.26.25.243690@bcs.removethis .org.uk...
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