My AMD64 desktop has been running happily for over a year. A couple of
nights ago I was checking my e-mails when the screen froze. First
reaction was it was a mouse failure, but nothing worked - keyboard did
nothing, couldn't Alt-Tab through screens. Ctrl-Alt-Del didn't work. So
power off. Power on: things start OK, but nothing on screen. Tried
booting from DVD - no joy. Hoping it was only a graphics card (and not
HD) I was happy to buy a cheap card to test theory. Machine started up, I
was able to log on, but then display froze again, and I couldn't get it
goig again. So tried again the VGA connector on the M/B (even though M/B
has no graphics built-in). Hadn't worked before, but this time I got a
display; then as I watched the progress bar (this is running Linux) the
display went off again, and the 'no video signal present' message
appeared.
I'm at a loss as to what to try next. I suppose the PSU could have gone
faulty. Note that I had done absolutely nothing to the PC before this
started. It's a MSI K9AGM, originally with Club3D Radeon X1600 VGA card,
and NorthQ PSU - I wanted a quality PSU.
What's the best thing to try next? I can maybe get a colleague to test
the VGA cards, but I don't have many options for swapping components.
On 29 Mar 2008 19:33:09 GMT, chris <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
>My AMD64 desktop has been running happily for over a year. A couple of
>nights ago I was checking my e-mails when the screen froze. First
>reaction was it was a mouse failure, but nothing worked - keyboard did
>nothing, couldn't Alt-Tab through screens. Ctrl-Alt-Del didn't work. So
>power off. Power on: things start OK, but nothing on screen. Tried
>booting from DVD - no joy. Hoping it was only a graphics card (and not
>HD)
It is rare for a hard drive failure to keep a system from
POSTing at all, normally system will post and stop at
enumerating the drive, fail to find a viable boot device,
and/or you'd hear a clicking sound from the drive.
However if there were any doubt you can just unplug the
drive and the system should still display video if posting
and video card is working.
>...I was happy to buy a cheap card to test theory.
>Machine started up, I
>was able to log on, but then display froze again, and I couldn't get it
>goig again. So tried again the VGA connector on the M/B (even though M/B
>has no graphics built-in).
? ? How is there a vga connector on the board if the board
has no built in video? What motherboard make and model?
If possible you should try the old video card in another
system, I'm suspecting you might be having a progressive PSU
failure.
>Hadn't worked before, but this time I got a
>display; then as I watched the progress bar (this is running Linux) the
>display went off again, and the 'no video signal present' message
>appeared.
>
>I'm at a loss as to what to try next. I suppose the PSU could have gone
>faulty. Note that I had done absolutely nothing to the PC before this
>started. It's a MSI K9AGM, originally with Club3D Radeon X1600 VGA card,
>and NorthQ PSU - I wanted a quality PSU.
What exact model? NorthQ aren't good quality PSU, then the
situation is made worse when they lower the fan RPM which
increases temp, reduces life. This is a potential weak link
in your system - but we can't be sure yet it is the problem.
You might leave it unplugged for a few minutes, open and
inspect it (unless you have a valid warranty still and hope
to exchange it), and with it closed again measure the
voltage with a multimeter though this won't find all kinds
of faults.
>
>What's the best thing to try next? I can maybe get a colleague to test
>the VGA cards, but I don't have many options for swapping components.
Yes, have someone test your original video card. It could
be dead, and if failing it could have a lossy part that put
a strain on the PSU, or more likely the psu was failing and
put a strain on the video card... but odds are fair the
video card is ok provided it didn't have a fan failure and
no visible corruption on-screen like artifacts.
If you had a spare, good PSU that would be the next thing to
try - or if not, buy one from someplace with a good return
policy. If your old PSU just popped a capacitor it might be
repairable, but I mean by you or a friend, it isn't worth
having a shop do it... then it may need that quiet fan
swapped out for one moving more airflow.
I hate to lecture but PSU manufacturers don't like to make
noisey products, they do it to provide more cooling margin.
Better PSU still have to be derated to a lower output power
when used with low flow fans or aggressive fan control
circuits in the psu so it makes it all the more important to
pick one with a higher wattage rating than you otherwise
would or from a company that rates very conservatively. I
have not seen all NorthQ models but those I have seen online
are not rated conservatively, look like a typical $25 300W
PSU with a higher peak rating on the label.
chris wrote:
> My AMD64 desktop has been running happily for over a year. A couple of
> nights ago I was checking my e-mails when the screen froze. First
> reaction was it was a mouse failure, but nothing worked - keyboard did
> nothing, couldn't Alt-Tab through screens. Ctrl-Alt-Del didn't work. So
> power off. Power on: things start OK, but nothing on screen. Tried
> booting from DVD - no joy. Hoping it was only a graphics card (and not
> HD) I was happy to buy a cheap card to test theory. Machine started up, I
> was able to log on, but then display froze again, and I couldn't get it
> goig again. So tried again the VGA connector on the M/B (even though M/B
> has no graphics built-in). Hadn't worked before, but this time I got a
> display; then as I watched the progress bar (this is running Linux) the
> display went off again, and the 'no video signal present' message
> appeared.
>
> I'm at a loss as to what to try next. I suppose the PSU could have gone
> faulty. Note that I had done absolutely nothing to the PC before this
> started. It's a MSI K9AGM, originally with Club3D Radeon X1600 VGA card,
> and NorthQ PSU - I wanted a quality PSU.
>
> What's the best thing to try next? I can maybe get a colleague to test
> the VGA cards, but I don't have many options for swapping components.
"chris" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:657jrlF2e7l7rU1@mid.individual.net...
> My AMD64 desktop has been running happily for over a year. A couple of
> nights ago I was checking my e-mails when the screen froze. First
> reaction was it was a mouse failure, but nothing worked - keyboard did
> nothing, couldn't Alt-Tab through screens. Ctrl-Alt-Del didn't work. So
> power off. Power on: things start OK, but nothing on screen. Tried
> booting from DVD - no joy. Hoping it was only a graphics card (and not
> HD) I was happy to buy a cheap card to test theory. Machine started up, I
> was able to log on, but then display froze again, and I couldn't get it
> goig again. So tried again the VGA connector on the M/B (even though M/B
> has no graphics built-in). Hadn't worked before, but this time I got a
> display; then as I watched the progress bar (this is running Linux) the
> display went off again, and the 'no video signal present' message
> appeared.
>
> I'm at a loss as to what to try next. I suppose the PSU could have gone
> faulty. Note that I had done absolutely nothing to the PC before this
> started. It's a MSI K9AGM, originally with Club3D Radeon X1600 VGA card,
> and NorthQ PSU - I wanted a quality PSU.
>
> What's the best thing to try next? I can maybe get a colleague to test
> the VGA cards, but I don't have many options for swapping components.
>
> Chris
according to this you do have an onboard graphics chip (otherwise why would
there be VGA connector ?)
so I would enable it in bios and use that as a comparison. take out the
X1600 of course and uninstall/reinstall
the drivers as usual when swapping cards.
the most likely culprit is heat and that means firstly checking no fans have
died - graphics card, CPU, PSU, mobo chipset
- check them all.
> On 29 Mar 2008 19:33:09 GMT, chris <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>My AMD64 desktop has been running happily for over a year. A couple of
>>nights ago I was checking my e-mails when the screen froze. First
>>reaction was it was a mouse failure, but nothing worked - keyboard did
>>nothing, couldn't Alt-Tab through screens. Ctrl-Alt-Del didn't work. So
>>power off. Power on: things start OK, but nothing on screen. Tried
>>booting from DVD - no joy. Hoping it was only a graphics card (and not
>>HD)
>
> It is rare for a hard drive failure to keep a system from POSTing at
> all, normally system will post and stop at enumerating the drive, fail
> to find a viable boot device, and/or you'd hear a clicking sound from
> the drive.
>
> However if there were any doubt you can just unplug the drive and the
> system should still display video if posting and video card is working.
I don't think the drive is faulty - I tried disconnecting it, ad still no
POST.
>>...I was happy to buy a cheap card to test theory. Machine started up, I
>>was able to log on, but then display froze again, and I couldn't get it
>>goig again. So tried again the VGA connector on the M/B (even though M/B
>>has no graphics built-in).
>
> ? ? How is there a vga connector on the board if the board has no built
> in video? What motherboard make and model?
It's the MSI K9AGM (MS-7242). The specifications in the manual make no
mention of video (only audio); but there is a VGA port on the board (and
the manual shows it, but I can find no other information).
> If possible you should try the old video card in another system, I'm
> suspecting you might be having a progressive PSU failure.
....
>
> What exact model? NorthQ aren't good quality PSU, then the situation is
> made worse when they lower the fan RPM which increases temp, reduces
> life. This is a potential weak link in your system - but we can't be
> sure yet it is the problem. You might leave it unplugged for a few
> minutes, open and inspect it (unless you have a valid warranty still and
> hope to exchange it), and with it closed again measure the voltage with
> a multimeter though this won't find all kinds of faults.
It's the NQ-4100 500 W. I deliberately chose a more powerful PSU than I
needed. I'm not a gamer, or any other sort of high-demand user, but
wanted plenty of margin in the PSU. I'm not sure what the warranty period
is.
> "chris" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:657jrlF2e7l7rU1@mid.individual.net...
>> My AMD64 desktop has been running happily for over a year. A couple of
>> nights ago I was checking my e-mails when the screen froze. First
>> reaction was it was a mouse failure, but nothing worked - keyboard did
>> nothing, couldn't Alt-Tab through screens. Ctrl-Alt-Del didn't work. So
>> power off. Power on: things start OK, but nothing on screen. Tried
>> booting from DVD - no joy. Hoping it was only a graphics card (and not
>> HD) I was happy to buy a cheap card to test theory. Machine started up,
>> I was able to log on, but then display froze again, and I couldn't get
>> it goig again. So tried again the VGA connector on the M/B (even though
>> M/B has no graphics built-in). Hadn't worked before, but this time I
>> got a display; then as I watched the progress bar (this is running
>> Linux) the display went off again, and the 'no video signal present'
>> message appeared.
>>
>> I'm at a loss as to what to try next. I suppose the PSU could have gone
>> faulty. Note that I had done absolutely nothing to the PC before this
>> started. It's a MSI K9AGM, originally with Club3D Radeon X1600 VGA
>> card, and NorthQ PSU - I wanted a quality PSU.
>>
>> What's the best thing to try next? I can maybe get a colleague to test
>> the VGA cards, but I don't have many options for swapping components.
>>
>> Chris
>
> did a quick google and this is your board ?
>
> http://www.hardware.info/en-US/produ...K/viewproduct/
MSI_K9AGM_K9AGM/
>
> according to this you do have an onboard graphics chip (otherwise why
> would there be VGA connector ?)
I know that it gives the same name, but that specifically mentions the
VGA chip set, and there is no mention in my manual (see earlier message).
> so I would enable it in bios and use that as a comparison. take out the
> X1600 of course and uninstall/reinstall the drivers as usual when
> swapping cards.
But I never get to the stage of being able to enter the BIOS - there's
nothing on the screen.
> the most likely culprit is heat and that means firstly checking no fans
> have died - graphics card, CPU, PSU, mobo chipset - check them all.
All fans are working. As I said earlier, I'm not stretching this board/
CPU, so there's no reason for it to overheat normally. That's not to say
that something hasn't gone faulty and is causing overheating. Looks like
I'll have to try swapping out the PSU.
On 30 Mar 2008 13:40:59 GMT, chris <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
>> ? ? How is there a vga connector on the board if the board has no built
>> in video? What motherboard make and model?
>
>It's the MSI K9AGM (MS-7242). The specifications in the manual make no
>mention of video (only audio); but there is a VGA port on the board (and
>the manual shows it, but I can find no other information).
See this page, onboard video is now listed. Maybe it's not
clear, when they write "onboard VGA" they mean the video
functionality instead of just the physical connector.
>
>> If possible you should try the old video card in another system, I'm
>> suspecting you might be having a progressive PSU failure.
>...
>>
>> What exact model? NorthQ aren't good quality PSU, then the situation is
>> made worse when they lower the fan RPM which increases temp, reduces
>> life. This is a potential weak link in your system - but we can't be
>> sure yet it is the problem. You might leave it unplugged for a few
>> minutes, open and inspect it (unless you have a valid warranty still and
>> hope to exchange it), and with it closed again measure the voltage with
>> a multimeter though this won't find all kinds of faults.
>
>It's the NQ-4100 500 W. I deliberately chose a more powerful PSU than I
>needed. I'm not a gamer, or any other sort of high-demand user, but
>wanted plenty of margin in the PSU. I'm not sure what the warranty period
>is.
That model is built better than some of their others, but it
doesn't eliminate the chance it may have some problem. I
vaguely recall (think it was Tom's Hardware?) some PSU
review where the similar Tagan PSU to that one failed, then
another of same failed in same test, they had some kind of
weakness. Regardless if checking voltage with a multimeter
doesn't reveal a problem it would be handy to have another
known good PSU to swap in it's place.
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 08:44:36 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras
<realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
>chris wrote:
>> My AMD64 desktop has been running happily for over a year. A couple of
>> nights ago I was checking my e-mails when the screen froze. First
>> reaction was it was a mouse failure, but nothing worked - keyboard did
>> nothing, couldn't Alt-Tab through screens. Ctrl-Alt-Del didn't work. So
>> power off. Power on: things start OK, but nothing on screen. Tried
>> booting from DVD - no joy. Hoping it was only a graphics card (and not
>> HD) I was happy to buy a cheap card to test theory. Machine started up, I
>> was able to log on, but then display froze again, and I couldn't get it
>> goig again. So tried again the VGA connector on the M/B (even though M/B
>> has no graphics built-in). Hadn't worked before, but this time I got a
>> display; then as I watched the progress bar (this is running Linux) the
>> display went off again, and the 'no video signal present' message
>> appeared.
>>
>> I'm at a loss as to what to try next. I suppose the PSU could have gone
>> faulty. Note that I had done absolutely nothing to the PC before this
>> started. It's a MSI K9AGM, originally with Club3D Radeon X1600 VGA card,
>> and NorthQ PSU - I wanted a quality PSU.
>>
>> What's the best thing to try next? I can maybe get a colleague to test
>> the VGA cards, but I don't have many options for swapping components.
>
>Or the monitor is at fault. Try another monitor.
A monitor fault could cause problems but if the system
starts running then the display freezes to a static image it
is not likely to be the monitor, maybe even impossible. To
check that one could simply unplug the monitor data cable
while the image is static to see if it then blanks out
and/or displays the "no image" type of notification on
screen, or more modern monitors may automatically go into a
lower power sleep-like mode.
On 30 Mar 2008 16:45:58 GMT, chris <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
>I know that it gives the same name, but that specifically mentions the
>VGA chip set, and there is no mention in my manual (see earlier message).
You may have to remove the other video cards to cause the
integrated video to work, or at least to be the primary
display adapter so it would output video when system is
first turned on.
>
>> so I would enable it in bios and use that as a comparison. take out the
>> X1600 of course and uninstall/reinstall the drivers as usual when
>> swapping cards.
>
>But I never get to the stage of being able to enter the BIOS - there's
>nothing on the screen.
Unplug AC power to PSU, pull the battery for 10 minutes then
use the clear CMOS jumper. Put jumper back in original
position, put battery back in, pull out all but one memory
module, CPU, and a known working video card. If you have no
spare cards you are sure work now, use the onboard video.
Note that using the onboard video, if it then works it isn't
necessarily evidence there is anything wrong with a video
card that was previously installed, as using onboard video
uses significantly less power than many video cards do.
>
>> the most likely culprit is heat and that means firstly checking no fans
>> have died - graphics card, CPU, PSU, mobo chipset - check them all.
>
>All fans are working. As I said earlier, I'm not stretching this board/
>CPU, so there's no reason for it to overheat normally. That's not to say
>that something hasn't gone faulty and is causing overheating. Looks like
>I'll have to try swapping out the PSU.
>
>Chris
So long as the heatsink is seated properly on the CPU, you
won't have any heat problems from an attempt at turning on
the system after it had been turned off for a few minutes -
it takes more than a few seconds for enough heat buildup to
effect stability that much to the point where it wouldn't
even POST.
While you're looking into swapping the PSU, inspect all
cards, cables, and the motherboard capacitors in case any
are failing.
Graphics cards killed? 
Linear Mode
