Suggestions for Novice

My niece is a budding photographer. Right now she only has a point and
shoot, but I'm considering buying her a new camera that would be a step
up. What cameras on the market allow the depth of field to be adjusted,
but aren't necessarily an SLR? I'm looking to spend somewhere between
$300 and $400. I hope this won't sound too stupid, but would a Nikon
Coolpix 80 fall within this category?

Thanks to any and all for their helpful advice!

Regards,

Deb

"Deborah" <email_4_deb@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:484cc44d$0$5737$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> My niece is a budding photographer. Right now she only has a point and
> shoot, but I'm considering buying her a new camera that would be a step
> up. What cameras on the market allow the depth of field to be adjusted,
> but aren't necessarily an SLR? I'm looking to spend somewhere between $300
> and $400. I hope this won't sound too stupid, but would a Nikon Coolpix 80
> fall within this category?
>
> Thanks to any and all for their helpful advice!
>
> Regards,
>
> Deb

Deb,

The Nikon P80 does have aperture priority (as well as full manual) so she
will be able to control the depth-of-field. The other camera that comes to
mind (but it's about $100 more than the P80) is the Canon G9. There is also
the Canon SX100 and it's only about $220 (online), but one main difference
is that it uses two AA size batteries instead of a single lithium battery
for the P80 and G9. This concerned me until I played with the SX100. Then, I
liked it so much that I bought it and am enjoying it. Having both
point-and-shoot capability, manual controls, and high zoom is very nice for
such an inexpensive camera.

The key thing to consider is what the aperture range really is. Most of the
time, the manufacturer will only spec the maximum aperture size (lowest f
number) as a function of zoom value, but do not include the minimum aperture
size (biggest f number). To really get a range of depth-of-field, you need a
camera with a wide range of aperture size.

Whatever you get her now will help her learn. If she sticks with it then
eventually she will get an SLR and a bunch of (expensive) lenses.

Hopefully, others will ring in with their opinions, too.

Bob
--
== NOTE: I automatically delete all Google Group posts due to uncontrolled
SPAM ==

Deborah wrote:
> My niece is a budding photographer. Right now she only has a point and
> shoot, but I'm considering buying her a new camera that would be a
> step up. What cameras on the market allow the depth of field to be
> adjusted, but aren't necessarily an SLR? I'm looking to spend
> somewhere between $300 and $400. I hope this won't sound too stupid,
> but would a Nikon Coolpix 80 fall within this category?
>
> Thanks to any and all for their helpful advice!
>
> Regards,
>
> Deb

Deb,

For good depth-of-field control you really need the larger sensors found
almost exclusively in a DSLR. OK, with something like a Panasonic FZ5 or
FZ20 you can get some nice out-of-focus effects at the long end of the
zoom range (432mm), but for your price I would guess you might be able to
find a second-hand Nikon D40 with the kit lens.

Cheers,
David

Deborah wrote:
> My niece is a budding photographer. Right now she only has a point and
> shoot, but I'm considering buying her a new camera that would be a step
> up. What cameras on the market allow the depth of field to be adjusted,
> but aren't necessarily an SLR? I'm looking to spend somewhere between
> $300 and $400. I hope this won't sound too stupid, but would a Nikon
> Coolpix 80 fall within this category?

I would suggest this:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0705/07050703canons5is.asp

Or perhaps this:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07...nona650720.asp

Canon offer by far the cheapest cameras on the market
with controls all the way to full manual.

Yes, you can buy a DSLR if you want to, but these
Canons provide an easier and cheaper road.

BugBear

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:52:13 -1000, Deborah wrote:

> My niece is a budding photographer. Right now she only has a point and
> shoot, but I'm considering buying her a new camera that would be a step
> up. What cameras on the market allow the depth of field to be adjusted,
> but aren't necessarily an SLR? I'm looking to spend somewhere between
> $300 and $400. I hope this won't sound too stupid, but would a Nikon
> Coolpix 80 fall within this category?
>
> Thanks to any and all for their helpful advice!
>
> Regards,
>
> Deb

Suggest you check the Kodak online store for a refurb P series - Kodak has
discontinued them. This is a long zoom EVF camera with all manual controls
in place. It offers all the functionality you'd expect of a dslr. Also has
ability to save as jpeg, tiff or raw. Last time I looked, a P850 was
around $225.

> My niece is a budding photographer. Right now she only has a point and
> shoot, but I'm considering buying her a new camera that would be a step
> up. What cameras on the market allow the depth of field to be adjusted,
> but aren't necessarily an SLR? I'm looking to spend somewhere between $300
> and $400. I hope this won't sound too stupid, but would a Nikon Coolpix 80
> fall within this category?

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/cameraList.php

check "manual exposure" and select your price range.

Another one:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp
select both aperture priority and shutter priority

If you are trying to shoot portrait with a very blurry background (i.e.
shallow depth of field), you'd want cameras with large sensor.

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:52:13 -1000, Deborah wrote:
> My niece is a budding photographer.

I have a niece that's 40 years old. Maybe your niece is 4 years old.
Would make somewhat of a difference on the selection of a camera.

"BobW" <nimby_NEEDSPAM@roadrunner.com> wrote in message
news:L8adnaxA4KwnV9HVnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>
> "Deborah" <email_4_deb@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:484cc44d$0$5737$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> My niece is a budding photographer. Right now she only has a point and
>> shoot, but I'm considering buying her a new camera that would be a step
>> up. What cameras on the market allow the depth of field to be adjusted,
>> but aren't necessarily an SLR? I'm looking to spend somewhere between
>> $300 and $400. I hope this won't sound too stupid, but would a Nikon
>> Coolpix 80 fall within this category?
>>
>> Thanks to any and all for their helpful advice!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Deb
>
> Deb,
>
> The Nikon P80 does have aperture priority (as well as full manual) so she
> will be able to control the depth-of-field. The other camera that comes to
> mind (but it's about $100 more than the P80) is the Canon G9. There is
> also the Canon SX100 and it's only about $220 (online), but one main
> difference is that it uses two AA size batteries instead of a single
> lithium battery for the P80 and G9. This concerned me until I played with
> the SX100. Then, I liked it so much that I bought it and am enjoying it.
> Having both point-and-shoot capability, manual controls, and high zoom is
> very nice for such an inexpensive camera.
>
> The key thing to consider is what the aperture range really is. Most of
> the time, the manufacturer will only spec the maximum aperture size
> (lowest f number) as a function of zoom value, but do not include the
> minimum aperture size (biggest f number). To really get a range of
> depth-of-field, you need a camera with a wide range of aperture size.
>
> Whatever you get her now will help her learn. If she sticks with it then
> eventually she will get an SLR and a bunch of (expensive) lenses.
>
> Hopefully, others will ring in with their opinions, too.
>
> Bob
> --
> == NOTE: I automatically delete all Google Group posts due to uncontrolled
> SPAM ==

Deb,

I've learned something from the others posts. The real range of
depth-of-field range is also greatly affected by the camera/lens focal
length and not just by the aperature size.

It appears that the only way to get shots with that cool closeup "subject is
in focus but other objects look out-of-focus" effect is to have both wide
field-of-view (wide angle lens) and long focal length. These two
requirements imply an SLR.

Try this online depth-of-field calculator, but be sure and enter the true
focal length of the lens and not the "35mm equivalent":

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

The Nikon P80 has a wide angle focal length of 4.7mm and a maximum aperature
size of f/2.8. This 4.7mm focal length gives the same field-of-view as a
27mm lens on a so-called 35mm camera. According the the dofmaster website,
this will give an in-focus range of 3.39 feet to infinity when the camera is
focused at something that is 10 feet away. Things in front of the subject
that are closer than 3.39 feet will appear out-of-focus, but everything
behind the subject will be in focus. This isn't quite the effect that is
really desired.

The Canon 5D with its 35mm sensor and with a lens that has a focal length of
27mm and aperature of f/2.8 will have an in-focus range of 7.4 feet to 15.4
feet when the camera is focused at something that is 10 feet away. This will
give a nice locally-focused effect.

So, as others have suggested -- get her an dSLR. You don't need a 35mm "full
frame" dSLR (they're really expensive), but you can probably pick up a used
one with a slightly smaller sensor and a nice zoom lens for roughly what
you've indicated you want to spend.

Bob
--
== NOTE: I automatically delete all Google Group posts due to uncontrolled
SPAM ==

"Deborah" <email_4_deb@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:484cc44d$0$5737$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> My niece is a budding photographer. Right now she only has a point and
> shoot, but I'm considering buying her a new camera that would be a step
> up. What cameras on the market allow the depth of field to be adjusted,
> but aren't necessarily an SLR? I'm looking to spend somewhere between $300
> and $400. I hope this won't sound too stupid, but would a Nikon Coolpix 80
> fall within this category?

You can't do much depth-of-field adjustment with any point-and-shoot because
the sensor is so slow.

However, for someone just starting out, that doesn't matter, because there
is so much else you can do.

Two wonderful pieces of advice I got from a photo workshop I took many years
ago:

1) Everyone is born with 10,000 bad pictures inside. You can't start
taking the good ones until you've taken all the bad ones.

2) Only two things matter in photography: Where to put the camera and
when to press the shutter release. Everything else is just technique.

So: Practice, practice, practice. Experiment with small changes in camera
location. Learn about light. Learn about timing. Learn about perspective.
None of these things require depth-of-field adjustment.

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:10:27 -0700, BobW wrote:

> It appears that the only way to get shots with that cool closeup "subject is
> in focus but other objects look out-of-focus" effect is to have both wide
> field-of-view (wide angle lens) and long focal length. These two
> requirements imply an SLR.

It's generally much easier to get that effect with a DSLR, but a
wide angle lens is *not* the way to go, since it will have a greater
Depth Of Field. There are several things that you can do, and one
should start by trying for a minimal DOF. This is done by using the
largest lens aperture that produces decent results. Next, reduce
the distance between the camera and the subject as much as is
reasonable. This will not only reduce the DOF, it will also put the
background even more out of focus. One additional trick is to focus
slightly in front of the subject. This will put the background even
more out of focus, and even though the focus won't be precise, the
subject should remain within the DOF. This slight 'defocusing' of
the subject might even be desirable, as portrait photographers have
long used softening techniques as a way to de-emphasize blemishes
and skin pores. Any photographer can easily do this, even if the
camera appears to be too simple to do so.