How fast is rechargeable batteries in digital cameras lost its power,
if the camera is not in use?
My camera has a Li-ion battery pack, and if I did not use the camera
in a few weeks, the camera is not longer fully charge. It looks like
the power drains out of the rechargeable batteries. On the other hand,
I have a better confidence with a digital camera utilizing regular
batteries (like the Canon A series), in which new AA batteries will
retain its power a long time, even when the camera is not used. I may
be wrong about this and would like some comments for those using the
regular alkaline batteries vs. rechargeable Ni-MH or Li-ion
batteries.
I read an old article in this newsgroup, which commented that Li-ion
batteries is better than Ni-MH in keeping the battery fully charged.
Is this true?
> How fast is rechargeable batteries in digital cameras lost its power,
> if the camera is not in use?
> My camera has a Li-ion battery pack, and if I did not use the camera
> in a few weeks, the camera is not longer fully charge. It looks like
> the power drains out of the rechargeable batteries. On the other hand,
> I have a better confidence with a digital camera utilizing regular
> batteries (like the Canon A series), in which new AA batteries will
> retain its power a long time, even when the camera is not used. I may
> be wrong about this and would like some comments for those using the
> regular alkaline batteries vs. rechargeable Ni-MH or Li-ion
> batteries.
> I read an old article in this newsgroup, which commented that Li-ion
> batteries is better than Ni-MH in keeping the battery fully charged.
> Is this true?
It used to be true, but now an improved NiMH type is available
that is probably even better than Li-Ion for retaining charge over
extended periods. The only down side is that unlike the latest high
capacity NiMH batteries, which are about 2,700 mAh capacity, the
very slow self-discharge rate NiMH batteries are rated at 2,000 to
2,100 mAh. Additionally, for cameras such as Canon's A-series, they
use such a small amount of battery power that for some people, even
alkaline AA batteries may prove to be more practical. The A6x0
series (A620 through A640) can take up to 1,600 shots per charge
using NiMH, and probably close to 1,000 shots using alkalines.
These numbers are only for ideal conditions, such as taking shots
outdoors using the viewfinder and not using the flash. If you take
huge numbers of pictures, or take fewer, but a good number of shots
using the flash, then NiMH batteries become more practical. If you
think that you will not use the camera frequently enough to need to
recharge the batteries at least every month or two, then don't get
standard NiMH batteries. In that case, either alkalines or the low
self-discharge rate NiMH batteries would be a much better choice.
These go by different names. Sanyo's are called Eneloop batteries.
RayOVac's version are called Hybrid batteries. Radio Shack sell
some too, at a very inflated price. What they all have in common is
that unlike standard NiMH batteries that need an extended full
charge before they are used for the first time, the low
self-discharge batteries come charged and can be used right out of
the package, just as alkalines can.
That said, your Li-Ion battery should not drain so quickly. If
not used very much, it should retain its charge for months, not
weeks. How old is your Li-Ion battery? Unlike NiMH batteries, even
if they are well cared for, they often have to be replaced every
couple of years. Usually what you see can be cured with a new
battery. Unfortunately that's not always the case. It's rarer, but
sometimes the problem is caused by a defective camera that's now
draining the batteries at a higher rate when powered off. It could
also be due to a battery charger that's no longer able to fully
charge the battery. It's also unfortunate that doing enough testing
to figure out the cause of the problem won't be easy unless you have
additional cameras, batteries and chargers to compare. If you
really like your current camera, try to get another battery for it.
As long as you don't buy one made by the camera's manufacturer, you
should be able to get one for $20 or less. If you don't think that
it's worth doing, check out reviews of Canon's A-series cameras at
DPReview.com. My preference would be for the A630 or A640 which use
4 AA cells. The 2 cell models (A5x0 and A7x0) don't perform as
quickly and don't match the image quality, but they are a little
smaller, which some people prefer. The A710 also adds IS.
I've taken almost 8,000 shots with my original Li-ion battery in a Sony
camera and it still seems to be good. There may be some power drain between
uses but it has never given me any noticeable problem.
"ASAAR" <caught@22.com> wrote in message
news:mnv223tbdem7btlhgsggpqpcndq8o3ob5m@4ax.com...
> On 14 Apr 2007 18:20:27 -0700, aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> How fast is rechargeable batteries in digital cameras lost its power,
>> if the camera is not in use?
>> My camera has a Li-ion battery pack, and if I did not use the camera
>> in a few weeks, the camera is not longer fully charge. It looks like
>> the power drains out of the rechargeable batteries. On the other hand,
>> I have a better confidence with a digital camera utilizing regular
>> batteries (like the Canon A series), in which new AA batteries will
>> retain its power a long time, even when the camera is not used. I may
>> be wrong about this and would like some comments for those using the
>> regular alkaline batteries vs. rechargeable Ni-MH or Li-ion
>> batteries.
>> I read an old article in this newsgroup, which commented that Li-ion
>> batteries is better than Ni-MH in keeping the battery fully charged.
>> Is this true?
>
> It used to be true, but now an improved NiMH type is available
> that is probably even better than Li-Ion for retaining charge over
> extended periods. The only down side is that unlike the latest high
> capacity NiMH batteries, which are about 2,700 mAh capacity, the
> very slow self-discharge rate NiMH batteries are rated at 2,000 to
> 2,100 mAh. Additionally, for cameras such as Canon's A-series, they
> use such a small amount of battery power that for some people, even
> alkaline AA batteries may prove to be more practical. The A6x0
> series (A620 through A640) can take up to 1,600 shots per charge
> using NiMH, and probably close to 1,000 shots using alkalines.
> These numbers are only for ideal conditions, such as taking shots
> outdoors using the viewfinder and not using the flash. If you take
> huge numbers of pictures, or take fewer, but a good number of shots
> using the flash, then NiMH batteries become more practical. If you
> think that you will not use the camera frequently enough to need to
> recharge the batteries at least every month or two, then don't get
> standard NiMH batteries. In that case, either alkalines or the low
> self-discharge rate NiMH batteries would be a much better choice.
> These go by different names. Sanyo's are called Eneloop batteries.
> RayOVac's version are called Hybrid batteries. Radio Shack sell
> some too, at a very inflated price. What they all have in common is
> that unlike standard NiMH batteries that need an extended full
> charge before they are used for the first time, the low
> self-discharge batteries come charged and can be used right out of
> the package, just as alkalines can.
>
> That said, your Li-Ion battery should not drain so quickly. If
> not used very much, it should retain its charge for months, not
> weeks. How old is your Li-Ion battery? Unlike NiMH batteries, even
> if they are well cared for, they often have to be replaced every
> couple of years. Usually what you see can be cured with a new
> battery. Unfortunately that's not always the case. It's rarer, but
> sometimes the problem is caused by a defective camera that's now
> draining the batteries at a higher rate when powered off. It could
> also be due to a battery charger that's no longer able to fully
> charge the battery. It's also unfortunate that doing enough testing
> to figure out the cause of the problem won't be easy unless you have
> additional cameras, batteries and chargers to compare. If you
> really like your current camera, try to get another battery for it.
> As long as you don't buy one made by the camera's manufacturer, you
> should be able to get one for $20 or less. If you don't think that
> it's worth doing, check out reviews of Canon's A-series cameras at
> DPReview.com. My preference would be for the A630 or A640 which use
> 4 AA cells. The 2 cell models (A5x0 and A7x0) don't perform as
> quickly and don't match the image quality, but they are a little
> smaller, which some people prefer. The A710 also adds IS.
>
> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/default.asp?view=alpha
>
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:20:10 -0400, Ed Mullikin wrote:
> I've taken almost 8,000 shots with my original Li-ion battery in a Sony
> camera and it still seems to be good. There may be some power drain
> between uses but it has never given me any noticeable problem.
That's not surprising. In *heavily* used cameras, it wouldn't be
unusual for a rechargeable battery to be good for 50,000, 100,000
shots or even much more. It's when you take pictures at a much
lower rate that the maximum lifetime number of shots per battery
drops drastically. Li-Ion batteries are harder to abuse than
traditional Ni-MH batteries. But it can still happen, especially by
those that use their cameras so infrequently that they're frequently
stored for many months between uses. Give them a little charge (a
full charge isn't necessary) every 4 to 6 months and they should do
just fine. The OP obviously has an atypical problem, but such
problems can occur with any and all camera brands, even Sony.
aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
> How fast is rechargeable batteries in digital cameras lost its power,
> if the camera is not in use?
> My camera has a Li-ion battery pack, and if I did not use the camera
> in a few weeks, the camera is not longer fully charge. It looks like
> the power drains out of the rechargeable batteries. On the other hand,
> I have a better confidence with a digital camera utilizing regular
> batteries (like the Canon A series), in which new AA batteries will
> retain its power a long time, even when the camera is not used. I may
> be wrong about this and would like some comments for those using the
> regular alkaline batteries vs. rechargeable Ni-MH or Li-ion
> batteries.
> I read an old article in this newsgroup, which commented that Li-ion
> batteries is better than Ni-MH in keeping the battery fully charged.
> Is this true?
>
Yes. NiMH batteries do have considerable self-discharge rates. This
will vary by manufacturer, and even specific manufacturing 'runs'. The
new 'hybrid', and Eneloop batteries seem to be a solution for this
problem, at the sacrifice of some total power capacity. Lithium-ion
batteries have a much slower rate of self-discharge, and shouldn't be a
significant problem in this respect.
Another solution is the lithium disposables, which have a 10 year shelf
life, and no self-discharge problem, with low weight, and less long-term
pollution problems than the NiMH batteries. A good solution for those
who take a few pictures on a sporadic basis.
Ron Hunter wrote:
> Another solution is the lithium disposables, which have a 10 year
> shelf life, and no self-discharge problem, with low weight, and less
> long-term pollution problems than the NiMH batteries. A good
> solution for those who take a few pictures on a sporadic basis.
Or as a backup in your camera bag. _VERY_ useful.
Only problem: difficult to find. Do you know of a source for lithium
disposable 2CR5 (aka DL245 aka EN-EL1)?
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 02:57:56 -0500, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> I read an old article in this newsgroup, which commented that Li-ion
>> batteries is better than Ni-MH in keeping the battery fully charged.
>> Is this true?
>>
>
> Yes. NiMH batteries do have considerable self-discharge rates. This
> will vary by manufacturer, and even specific manufacturing 'runs'. The
> new 'hybrid', and Eneloop batteries seem to be a solution for this
> problem, at the sacrifice of some total power capacity. Lithium-ion
> batteries have a much slower rate of self-discharge, and shouldn't be a
> significant problem in this respect.
Not really. Li-Ion's self discharge rate is much lower than
traditional NiMH cells, but probably not quite as low as the self
discharge rate of Eneloops and Hybrids. These are sold fully
charged, retain a considerable amount of their initial charge for
very long periods and can be used out of the package without
charging even if bought after sitting on a store's shelf for a year
or two. Li-Ion batteries can't go nearly that long between charges.
> Another solution is the lithium disposables, which have a 10 year shelf
> life, and no self-discharge problem, with low weight, and less long-term
> pollution problems than the NiMH batteries. A good solution for those
> who take a few pictures on a sporadic basis.
True, but those who take few pictures on a sporadic basis might
also want to consider using plain old alkaline AA cells. In the
older cameras that were usually significant power hogs the more
expensive lithium AA cells could be cost effective because they
wouldn't waste as much energy internally, as alkalines would. But
with many of the more efficient cameras made in the last year or
two, alkaline batteries do much better, relatively. Not quite as
good as lithiums, but not too much worse, and at their much lower
prices can be much more cost effective than lithiums, which I
believe have shelf lives of about 15 years. While the shelf life of
alkalines isn't quite as good, at about 7 or 8 years it's still
excellent, and for all practical purposes much more than needed.
After all, most digital cameras will have been replaced long before
the (sometimes) unused alkaline AA cells packed in the camera boxes
will have lost their much of their original capacity. For those
with weak knees and creaking elbows, lithium AAs might be the
batteries of choice since they don't weigh as much as alkalines. <g>
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:50:00 GMT, Jürgen Exner wrote:
>> Another solution is the lithium disposables, which have a 10 year
>> shelf life, and no self-discharge problem, with low weight, and less
>> long-term pollution problems than the NiMH batteries. A good
>> solution for those who take a few pictures on a sporadic basis.
>
> Or as a backup in your camera bag. _VERY_ useful.
>
> Only problem: difficult to find. Do you know of a source for lithium
> disposable 2CR5 (aka DL245 aka EN-EL1)?
Probably any good camera store, such as B&H, Adorama, perhaps J&R.
I hope that you also have an equivalent rechargeable battery if your
camera is old and eats batteries as my Canon Powershots do. They
use either the 2CR5 or Canon's proprietary NiMH battery pack, which
unfortunately won't be usable in other cameras that use 2CR5
batteries, since the NB-5H has a large protrusion that would prevent
them from fitting in any but Canon Powershots. An NB-5H compatible
battery won't cost more than 2 or 3 times as much as a 2CR5, but can
be recharged hundreds of times, making 2CR5 batteries prohibitively
expensive unless they're only used as emergency backups. This is
the Battery Performance table from the PowerShot S10/S20 manual.
Your camera may be more battery frugal. The alignment of the table
may be way off if viewed without a fixed pitch font:
ASAAR wrote:
>> Do you know of a source for lithium
>> disposable 2CR5 (aka DL245 aka EN-EL1)?
>
> Probably any good camera store, such as B&H, Adorama, perhaps J&R.
> I hope that you also have an equivalent rechargeable battery if your
> camera is old and eats batteries as my Canon Powershots do.
You bet ;-)
> They
> use either the 2CR5 or Canon's proprietary NiMH battery pack, which
> unfortunately won't be usable in other cameras that use 2CR5
> batteries, since the NB-5H has a large protrusion that would prevent
> them from fitting in any but Canon Powershots.
The EN-EL1 is the rechargable equivalent from Nikon and it has the same form
and size as the 2CR5 without any protrusions. Unfortunately it is not
exactly cheap, either.
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:01:56 GMT, Jürgen Exner wrote:
>> They use either the 2CR5 or Canon's proprietary NiMH battery pack,
>> which unfortunately won't be usable in other cameras that use 2CR5
>> batteries, since the NB-5H has a large protrusion that would prevent
>> them from fitting in any but Canon Powershots.
>
>
> The EN-EL1 is the rechargable equivalent from Nikon and it has the
> same form and size as the 2CR5 without any protrusions. Unfortunately
> it is not exactly cheap, either.
B&H has Canon's NB-5H for $39.95, which I think is about $10 less
than I paid for them back in 2000. Kind of overpriced since it
contains little more than 5 NiMH AAA cells and that probably costs
Canon less than $5 to manufacture. B&H has 2CR5 batteries from
Monster-Power, Kodak and "General Brand" for $11, $10 and $6,
respectively. By greatly enlarging the picture of the "General
Brand" 2CR5 you can see that it is made by Sanyo. By calling it
"General Brand" however, there's no guarantee that if you ordered
one that you'd get a Sanyo 2CR5. I did, 7 years ago and got a
Sanyo. This wouldn't concern me very much, as I doubt that B&H
would replace it with a clone that didn't have at least 95% of the
2CR5's rated capacity.
B&H also has the EN-EL1 for $34.95, but cheaper clones are
available. Adorama and J&R usually have lower clone battery prices
than B&H. I bought some Maxell NB-5H clones from J&R a year or two
ago for $20, Energizer's version for the Powershot is the ER-D110
and there are probably others. Energizer's version of Nikon's
EN-EL1 is their ER-D300. Energizer has a "Where To Buy Online" page
at
and the first link I checked (www.batteries.com) had the ER-D110
and ER-D300 for extremely high prices, $39.31 and $50.55,
respectively. Actually a bit cheaper if you drill down deeper to
look at individual batteries, where the prices drop to $33.41 and
$42.96 for the ER-D100 and ER-D300.
They also have their own "batteries.com" brand of both, $13.47 for
their NB-5H clone and $12.35 for their EN-EL1 clone. Since the
NB-5H uses NiMH cells and the EN-EL1 uses Li-Ion, that shows the
tremendous markup manufacturers get for their proprietary batteries,
whether they're NiMH or Li-Ion based, and if priced fairly probably
would sell for about the same as standard NiMH AA cells.
Rechargable batteries 
This wouldn't concern me very much, as I doubt that B&H
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