Barry Watzman wrote:
> Well, ok, it makes AC electricity (from DC electricity ....)
>
> You know, when I make a cake I still need "ingredients". Just think of
> the battery as an ingredient for making AC electricity. If you are
> nice, I might share the recipie.
<snip>
I know I'm probably mincing words, but my comment was directed to those
who really don't know how a UPS works...
It doesn't "make" electricity like a generator, but "stores" electricity
in the form of DC (as you pointed out), and returns it in the form of AC
(again, as you pointed out).
I'd argue that it DOES INDEED make electricity like a generator; it's a
solid state, electronic generator. The generator needs a source of
energy also, which is your battery for the inverter. It's no different
than a generator (generator here meaning the entire unit you'd buy at
Home Depot, with a gas engine, a gas tank and gas in it) except it's
electronic solid state instead of mechanical.
Notan wrote:
> Barry Watzman wrote:
>> Well, ok, it makes AC electricity (from DC electricity ....)
>>
>> You know, when I make a cake I still need "ingredients". Just think
>> of the battery as an ingredient for making AC electricity. If you are
>> nice, I might share the recipie.
>
> <snip>
>
> I know I'm probably mincing words, but my comment was directed to those
> who really don't know how a UPS works...
>
> It doesn't "make" electricity like a generator, but "stores" electricity
> in the form of DC (as you pointed out), and returns it in the form of AC
> (again, as you pointed out).
>
Barry Watzman wrote:
> I'd argue that it DOES INDEED make electricity like a generator; it's a
> solid state, electronic generator. The generator needs a source of
> energy also, which is your battery for the inverter. It's no different
> than a generator (generator here meaning the entire unit you'd buy at
> Home Depot, with a gas engine, a gas tank and gas in it) except it's
> electronic solid state instead of mechanical.
On Jun 27, 9:58 pm, Notan <notan@ddressthatcanbespammed> wrote:
> It doesn't "make" electricity like a generator, but "stores" electricity
> in the form of DC (as you pointed out), and returns it in the form of AC
Although not relevent to the OPs question, this is just to clarify a
technical mistake. Batteries do not store electricity. Batteries
store charges. Electricity and charges are different. To have
electricity, means charges are moving. If charges are stored, then no
electricity exists. But the potential to create electricity does.
Batteries don't store AC or DC. AC and DC are simply
characteristics of how charges move.
w_tom wrote:
> On Jun 27, 9:58 pm, Notan <notan@ddressthatcanbespammed> wrote:
>> It doesn't "make" electricity like a generator, but "stores" electricity
>> in the form of DC (as you pointed out), and returns it in the form of AC
>
> Although not relevent to the OPs question, this is just to clarify a
> technical mistake. Batteries do not store electricity. Batteries
> store charges. Electricity and charges are different. To have
> electricity, means charges are moving. If charges are stored, then no
> electricity exists. But the potential to create electricity does.
>
> Batteries don't store AC or DC. AC and DC are simply
> characteristics of how charges move.
The *flow* of electrons... It's all coming back to me.
I *knew* that my edumacation would eventually come in handy!
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:48:37 GMT, Ron Hardin <rhhardin@mindspring.com>
wrote:
>Journey wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:53:21 -0800, Steve <hde@wbn.inv> wrote:
>>
>> >Ok, here's a stupid question - other than being a better surge
>> >protector, what does a UPS do? Does it come into play only if you
>> >happen to be working at the computer when a surge hits? Then you get
>> >a couple minutes to save your work and log off? Any other benefits?
>>
>> I haven't purchased one yet (I will soon), but I won't buy one unless
>> it has auto-shutdown software in case of a power outage. I leave my
>> desktop on all the time and it's likely that in case of an outage I
>> wouldn't be home.
>
>They're useful without autoshutdown. The killer for data is a double
>power hit, where the power goes off, on, off, on, off, and catches
>the computer in a really bad state on the second one. A UPS turns
>off cleanly once.
>
>And of course you can work right through momentary power hits.
The may be useful without auto-shutdown, but they aren't useful enough
for me without that feature.
I always leave my computer on. Without auto-shutdown, I am only fully
protected part of the day (the part that I'm awake and at home). There
are some days when I am out and about and only home for a few waking
hours.
If this isn't a feature of the UPS's, or the UPS's in my price range,
then I would settle for lesser protection, because at least it would
provide some protection
(using my toaster and my microwave at the same time results in a power
outage :-)
On Jun 28, 1:35 am, Notan <notan@ddressthatcanbespammed> wrote:
> The *flow* of electrons... It's all coming back to me.
>
> I *knew* that my edumacation would eventually come in handy!
Re: "They [UPS'] may be useful without auto-shutdown, but they aren't
useful enough for me without that feature."
They ALL have auto shutdown .... e.g. a data port to connect to the
computer and software that does the auto shutdown when the power fails.
Even the cheap off-brand models have it.
Journey wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:48:37 GMT, Ron Hardin <rhhardin@mindspring.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Journey wrote:
>>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:53:21 -0800, Steve <hde@wbn.inv> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, here's a stupid question - other than being a better surge
>>>> protector, what does a UPS do? Does it come into play only if you
>>>> happen to be working at the computer when a surge hits? Then you get
>>>> a couple minutes to save your work and log off? Any other benefits?
>>> I haven't purchased one yet (I will soon), but I won't buy one unless
>>> it has auto-shutdown software in case of a power outage. I leave my
>>> desktop on all the time and it's likely that in case of an outage I
>>> wouldn't be home.
>> They're useful without autoshutdown. The killer for data is a double
>> power hit, where the power goes off, on, off, on, off, and catches
>> the computer in a really bad state on the second one. A UPS turns
>> off cleanly once.
>>
>> And of course you can work right through momentary power hits.
>
> The may be useful without auto-shutdown, but they aren't useful enough
> for me without that feature.
>
> I always leave my computer on. Without auto-shutdown, I am only fully
> protected part of the day (the part that I'm awake and at home). There
> are some days when I am out and about and only home for a few waking
> hours.
>
> If this isn't a feature of the UPS's, or the UPS's in my price range,
> then I would settle for lesser protection, because at least it would
> provide some protection
>
> (using my toaster and my microwave at the same time results in a power
> outage :-)
On Jun 28, 1:47 am, Journey <rain...@oasis.com> wrote:
> I always leave my computer on. Without auto-shutdown, I am only fully
> protected part of the day (the part that I'm awake and at home). There
> are some days when I am out and about and only home for a few waking
> hours.
>
> If this isn't a feature of the UPS's, or the UPS's in my price range,
> then I would settle for lesser protection, because at least it would
> provide some protection
When not using the computer, then where is data that is not yet
saved? Once that data is written to disk, then the data is saved. If
power is lost unexpectedly, that data is still saved.
Data is not immediately saved to disk. That data remains unsaved
until the system finds a more convenient time to save it. But when
computer is doing nothing, then computer saves remaining data to
disk. Once data is saved to disk, then power failures will not
destroy that data.
Older FAT filesystems (DOS, Windows 3.1 / 9x / ME) could (in rare
cases) erase data from drive during an unexpected power loss. That
problem does not exist with NTFS filesystems found on NT based
systems. Once data is saved to disk, data is non-volatile. So what
are you trying to protect?
Meanwhile, your data is at greater risk from kitchen appliances. If
your household wiring is repeatedly and only depending a backup system
(circuit breakers) as protection from fire, then better data
protection is another 20 amp circuit. Routine tripping of circuit
breakers is a greater data threat and human threat.
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:54:41 -0700, w_tom <w_tom1@usa.net> wrote:
> When not using the computer, then where is data that is not yet
>saved? Once that data is written to disk, then the data is saved. If
>power is lost unexpectedly, that data is still saved.
>
> Data is not immediately saved to disk. That data remains unsaved
>until the system finds a more convenient time to save it. But when
>computer is doing nothing, then computer saves remaining data to
>disk. Once data is saved to disk, then power failures will not
>destroy that data.
>
> Older FAT filesystems (DOS, Windows 3.1 / 9x / ME) could (in rare
>cases) erase data from drive during an unexpected power loss. That
>problem does not exist with NTFS filesystems found on NT based
>systems. Once data is saved to disk, data is non-volatile. So what
>are you trying to protect?
>
> Meanwhile, your data is at greater risk from kitchen appliances. If
>your household wiring is repeatedly and only depending a backup system
>(circuit breakers) as protection from fire, then better data
>protection is another 20 amp circuit. Routine tripping of circuit
>breakers is a greater data threat and human threat.
I record TV a lot on my desktop computer (or I should say will, once I
get Beyond TV). I don't know if a power outage during that time would
be a potential problem.
Also, due to "only" having 250GB hard drives and externals, I do most
of my moving around of data from one to another drive when I am
sleeping or out and about.
And, my defrag'ing is once / week on Wed nights at 2am.
Otherwise you're right -- usually when I am out and about or sleeping
I would not have data which hasn't been saved yet. Barry said that
they all have auto-shutdown -- I will just check that auto-shutdown is
available and Vista-compatible on the one I purchase.
As far as changing circuits and things of that nature, it's out of my
hands because I currently rent.
Re: UPS recommendations? 
Linear Mode
