Anyone playing games with a high-end video card on a low-end system?

> BTW, shouldn't this be a new newsgroup thread, not a reply to my thread?
>
It is a new thread! (I'm not sure what a 'new newsgroup thread is - do I
need to create one?)

Thanks thou for the reply - I did write there as well


Regards
Robert McCurdy
"Ant" <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote in message
news:47a0a404$0$29966$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> On 1/30/2008 8:10 AM PT, Robert McCurdy typed:
>
>> Does anyone here know why Nvidia have removed a much used function for
>> the secondary display?
>> Or know of a way around it?
>>
>> https://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...ted=1169076830
>> Just bought myself a lovely fully featured custom built computer with
>> most of the best stuff, included was the Geforce 8800gt and much to my
>> disappointment it didn't do what my Geforce2 could in the old computer.
>>
>> I feel like someone who just won a nice summer holiday to Venus!
>> What were they thinking?
>> The card is now virtually useless - I don't use it to play games - I wish
>> to use it to make videos, via archiving my huge VHS tape collection on to
>> DVD. Something I did mention to the boffins I bought the puter from.
>
> Return the card, get a lower end video card like a GeForce 6800 since you
> don't play games. 7xxx has its, but its aspect ratio is all wrong! You can
> see all the complaints in NVIDIA's forum like
> http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=49636&st=0 ...
>
> BTW, shouldn't this be a new newsgroup thread, not a reply to my thread?
>
> --
> "News Headline: Ants Take A Long Time To Cook In Microwave" --unknown
> /\___/\
> / /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
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> \ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: philpi@earthlink.netANT
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> Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.

Robert McCurdy wrote:
>> BTW, shouldn't this be a new newsgroup thread, not a reply to my
>> thread?
> It is a new thread! (I'm not sure what a 'new newsgroup thread is - do
> I need to create one?)
>
> Thanks thou for the reply - I did write there as well
>
>
> Regards
> Robert McCurdy

Examine the header of the message you sent. Yours has a "References" section,
something that gets included when you hit the "Reply" button in your
news reader.

http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.co...4?dmode=source

Notice how the original posting in the thread, has no references. And
thus, has started a "new thread".

http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.co...3?dmode=source

What you did, might be referred to as "hijacking".

To prepare a new message, don't use the "Reply" button.

You can view the full thread here, complete with subject change part way down.
Click "Options" (upper right hand corner) and select "View as Tree" for a more
dramatic effect.

http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.co...113592bd4de593

Paul

In article <47a09979$0$30028$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, Ant says...
> On 1/30/2008 7:28 AM PT, Conor typed:
>
> >> How much FPS am I expecting from a high-end video card like a 8800 GT on
> >> my low-end system? 30 FPS more? I hope it's not a measely 5 FPS. I can't
> >> get both CPU and GPU upgrades at this time. So I am trying to figure out
> >> which upgrade would be the hit for the newer games. I am not planning to
> >> get Vista, so Vista's DirectX 10 is irrevelant to me at this time.
> >>
> > Well I run a X2 4800 with 7800GT but I have 2GB RAM and it flies like a
> > bastard.
>
> What newest games (not old ones) do you play and what type of settings
> (e.g., resolution, everything cranked up?) do you use?
>
Quake Wars Enemy Territory and Unreal Tournament 3. All on 1360x768
(Widescreen LCD TV) and all on High. Not benchmarked them but there's
no lag.

--
Conor

As a Brit I'd like to thank the Americans for their help in the war
against terror because if they'd not funded the IRA for 30 years, we
wouldn't know how to deal with terrorists.

"Ant" <ANTant@zimage.com> schreef in bericht
news:47a03473$0$30677$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Hello!
>
> I cannot seem to find benchmarks, articles, stories, etc. on how high-end
> video cards (e.g., NVIDIA 8800 GT with 512 or so MB of memory) run on
> low-end systems like an Athlon 4600+ X2 system (nothing is overclocked)
> with Windows XP Pro. SP2 (IE6.0 SP2 and all updates).
>
> I am currently using a EVGA eForce 7950 GT KO (512 MB; PCIe) with
> 1280x1024 native resolution (hate going lower due to stretching option
> that look like crap on LCD monitors via VGA connections), no FSAA (0X),
> and eveything at the maximum (details, features, 16X anisotropic, etc.).
> It does almost fine for older games like Oblivion, C&C3, Orange
> Box/Half-Life 2, Call of Duty 4, etc. However, not so well with
> current/newest games like Crysis (see http://pastebin.ca/884075 for Crysis
> v1.1's island GPU benchmarks), World in Conflict (I think 11 FPS average),
> etc.
>
> Is it still OK for me to get a faster video card (one of the newer ATI or
> NVIDIA cards [8800 GT?]) on my old system? I don't know if the bottleneck
> is my CPU, video card (GPU), or both for the newer games. My detailed
> computer specifications can be found here:
> http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm.../computers.txt (primary
> computer).
>
> Thank you in advance.

Fwiw, I have an Athlon 3000 (32-bit) and used to have an 6800GT. In Stalker
this gave me a slide show, it was completely unplayable, maybe 2 or 3 fps.
Then I bought the fastest AGP card available, the 7950GT with 512 MB and I
could put many options to the highest setting, iirc the "dynamic lightning"
was the killer for the 6800, on the 7950 it was no problem at all, I don't
know how many fps I got then but it was enough, I saw no flickering
whatsoever.
I think this card is as much overkill for my cpu as the one You would like
to buy is to Your cpu.
But again, I don't have any numbers, so take the "fwiw" very literally.
Perhaps You can buy the card in a store that will refund Your money if it is
not enough improvement?

Good luck and please report back Your plans/outcomes, I am curious.

Yours sincerely,
Rene

Ant wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I cannot seem to find benchmarks, articles, stories, etc. on how
> high-end video cards (e.g., NVIDIA 8800 GT with 512 or so MB of memory)
> run on low-end systems like an Athlon 4600+ X2 system (nothing is
> overclocked) with Windows XP Pro. SP2 (IE6.0 SP2 and all updates).
>
> I am currently using a EVGA eForce 7950 GT KO (512 MB; PCIe) with
> 1280x1024 native resolution (hate going lower due to stretching option
> that look like crap on LCD monitors via VGA connections), no FSAA (0X),
> and eveything at the maximum (details, features, 16X anisotropic, etc.).
> It does almost fine for older games like Oblivion, C&C3, Orange
> Box/Half-Life 2, Call of Duty 4, etc. However, not so well with
> current/newest games like Crysis (see http://pastebin.ca/884075 for
> Crysis v1.1's island GPU benchmarks), World in Conflict (I think 11 FPS
> average), etc.
>
> Is it still OK for me to get a faster video card (one of the newer ATI
> or NVIDIA cards [8800 GT?]) on my old system? I don't know if the
> bottleneck is my CPU, video card (GPU), or both for the newer games. My
> detailed computer specifications can be found here:
> http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm.../computers.txt (primary
> computer).
>
> Thank you in advance.


This is what review sites are for: testing various hardware combinations
with various games to get FPS results. All you will get here is anecdote
and singular opinion and only if you are lucky, links to various CPU
scaling articles.

And as luck has it:

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=672

^ CPU Scaling with an 8800

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/24...chase-decision

^ Single core CPU user thinking about an 8800 upgrade

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/...m/196007148831

^ More CPU scaling discussion, but with Intel dual core cpus.


The point is, which you already know, the fastest cards can't handle the
most demanding gaming tasks today, and yesterday's cards are more than
adequate for all the other titles. Why give any attention to Crysis,
when it can't be run as intended with any combination of available
hardware? Wait.

> > >> How much FPS am I expecting from a high-end video card like a 8800 GT on
> > >> my low-end system? 30 FPS more? I hope it's not a measely 5 FPS. I can't
> > >> get both CPU and GPU upgrades at this time. So I am trying to figure out
> > >> which upgrade would be the hit for the newer games. I am not planning to
> > >> get Vista, so Vista's DirectX 10 is irrevelant to me at this time.
> > >>
> > > Well I run a X2 4800 with 7800GT but I have 2GB RAM and it flies like a
> > > bastard.
> >
> > What newest games (not old ones) do you play and what type of settings
> > (e.g., resolution, everything cranked up?) do you use?
> >
> Quake Wars Enemy Territory and Unreal Tournament 3. All on 1360x768
> (Widescreen LCD TV) and all on High. Not benchmarked them but there's
> no lag.

Yeah, I had no problems with those games too. Smooth enough for me at
1280x1024 with everything cranked up except FSAA. Now, try Crysis and
World in Conflict games. Demos exist so...
--
"I used to own an ant farm but had to give it up. I couldn't find
tractors small enough to fit it." --Steven Wright
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

In alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia Mr.E Solved! <Iamsingle@askme.out> wrote:
> Ant wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > I cannot seem to find benchmarks, articles, stories, etc. on how
> > high-end video cards (e.g., NVIDIA 8800 GT with 512 or so MB of memory)
> > run on low-end systems like an Athlon 4600+ X2 system (nothing is
> > overclocked) with Windows XP Pro. SP2 (IE6.0 SP2 and all updates).
> >
> > I am currently using a EVGA eForce 7950 GT KO (512 MB; PCIe) with
> > 1280x1024 native resolution (hate going lower due to stretching option
> > that look like crap on LCD monitors via VGA connections), no FSAA (0X),
> > and eveything at the maximum (details, features, 16X anisotropic, etc.).
> > It does almost fine for older games like Oblivion, C&C3, Orange
> > Box/Half-Life 2, Call of Duty 4, etc. However, not so well with
> > current/newest games like Crysis (see http://pastebin.ca/884075 for
> > Crysis v1.1's island GPU benchmarks), World in Conflict (I think 11 FPS
> > average), etc.
> >
> > Is it still OK for me to get a faster video card (one of the newer ATI
> > or NVIDIA cards [8800 GT?]) on my old system? I don't know if the
> > bottleneck is my CPU, video card (GPU), or both for the newer games. My
> > detailed computer specifications can be found here:
> > http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm.../computers.txt (primary
> > computer).
> >
> > Thank you in advance.


> This is what review sites are for: testing various hardware combinations
> with various games to get FPS results. All you will get here is anecdote
> and singular opinion and only if you are lucky, links to various CPU
> scaling articles.

Well, I couldn't find any with an old Athlon 64 X2 systems.


> And as luck has it:

> http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=672

> ^ CPU Scaling with an 8800

Old games though. All of those worked fine on my current system.


> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/24...chase-decision

> ^ Single core CPU user thinking about an 8800 upgrade

Yeah, but I have a X2 (dual core). I didn't see anything interesting in
that thread and FiringSquad article.


> http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/...m/196007148831

> ^ More CPU scaling discussion, but with Intel dual core cpus.

Interesting. I always thought lower resolutions were supposed to help
FPS, not make it worse. Hence, why I am using a 19" LCD monitor due to
lack of space and to keep my FPS higher than say 1600x1200 resolution.
If this is the case, then my CPU is a bottleneck on my current system.


> The point is, which you already know, the fastest cards can't handle the
> most demanding gaming tasks today, and yesterday's cards are more than
> adequate for all the other titles. Why give any attention to Crysis,
> when it can't be run as intended with any combination of available
> hardware? Wait.

There were other games too like Tabula Rasa MMOG (late beta days). I
had to crank their details down.
--
"I used to own an ant farm but had to give it up. I couldn't find
tractors small enough to fit it." --Steven Wright
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

> > > > >> How much FPS am I expecting from a high-end video card like a 8800 GT on
> > > > >> my low-end system? 30 FPS more? I hope it's not a measely 5 FPS. I can't
> > > > >> get both CPU and GPU upgrades at this time. So I am trying to figure out
> > > > >> which upgrade would be the hit for the newer games. I am not planning to
> > > > >> get Vista, so Vista's DirectX 10 is irrevelant to me at this time.
> >
> > > > > Well I run a X2 4800 with 7800GT but I have 2GB RAM and it flies like a
> > > > > bastard.
> >
> > > > What newest games (not old ones) do you play and what type of settings
> > > > (e.g., resolution, everything cranked up?) do you use?
> >
> > > Quake Wars Enemy Territory and Unreal Tournament 3. All on 1360x768
> > > (Widescreen LCD TV) and all on High. Not benchmarked them but there's
> > > no lag.
> >
> > Yeah, I had no problems with those games too. Smooth enough for me at
> > 1280x1024 with everything cranked up except FSAA. Now, try Crysis and
> > World in Conflict games. Demos exist so...

> I will try CRYSIS and run FRAPs to give me a speed. Doubt it will be
> fast, given my X850 XT. But it is better than minimum spec.

You don't need FRAPS. Crysis has its own benchmarks. Look for gpu.bat or
something in Crysis' bin32 folder/directory.
--
"I used to own an ant farm but had to give it up. I couldn't find
tractors small enough to fit it." --Steven Wright
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

"Ant" <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote in message
news:47a090b5$0$30013$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
> On 1/30/2008 5:08 AM PT, Sir-Les-MP typed:

[...]

>> You may find your memory is also part of the problem
>> i looked at your system specs and noticied you are running 2 x 512
>> sticks and 1 x 1024 stick
>> Running the memory in this config means you are not making use of the
>> double data rate you get when running them in pair's
>> you would get better performance if you were to run 2 x 1024Mb
>> sticks or even 4 x 512Mb sticks
>
> How much speed loss did I have? 50%? Are you saying my games would be
> two times faster than this memory setup? Non-gaming seems OK to me
> (fast enough for me).

The performance difference between single-channel and dual-channel is
frequently over-stated. Expect a 5% to 10% improvement in memory
performance on an AMD system when switching to dual-channel. IOW, nice if
you've got it but not worth killing yourself over. You'll get bigger gains
more easily by upgrading or overclocking your CPU, then your GPU.

In alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia DRS <drs@removethis.ihug.com.au> wrote:
> "Ant" <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote in message
> news:47a090b5$0$30013$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
> > On 1/30/2008 5:08 AM PT, Sir-Les-MP typed:

> [...]

> >> You may find your memory is also part of the problem
> >> i looked at your system specs and noticied you are running 2 x 512
> >> sticks and 1 x 1024 stick
> >> Running the memory in this config means you are not making use of the
> >> double data rate you get when running them in pair's
> >> you would get better performance if you were to run 2 x 1024Mb
> >> sticks or even 4 x 512Mb sticks
> >
> > How much speed loss did I have? 50%? Are you saying my games would be
> > two times faster than this memory setup? Non-gaming seems OK to me
> > (fast enough for me).

> The performance difference between single-channel and dual-channel is
> frequently over-stated. Expect a 5% to 10% improvement in memory
> performance on an AMD system when switching to dual-channel. IOW, nice if
> you've got it but not worth killing yourself over. You'll get bigger gains
> more easily by upgrading or overclocking your CPU, then your GPU.

I don't really like OC'ing and I have a hard time keeping my system
stable during the heat waves (almost 90 degrees(F) in my room).
--
"I used to own an ant farm but had to give it up. I couldn't find
tractors small enough to fit it." --Steven Wright
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )