Fans

I'm going to get a system primarily for video editing purposes. No
overclocking.
Core 2 Duo 6420 with standard Intel fan
ASUS P5B-E (with 2Mb ram)
256Mb 7600GT Silent Pipe

For the case I'm thinking about Coolermaster Centurian V/532/534 or
Thermaltake Soprano, with 430W PSU. These cases usually come with rear
(exhaust) fans, some with front fans (some optional) and all with optional
side fans.

My question is, for my set-up is it necessary to have more than say 1 case
fan?

And regardless, if I'm not using a side fan but the case has the opening for
it, would that be detrimental to the cooling system to have the air entering
the side just to go out the back without passing properly over the
components (I think Intel recommends the air entering the front)? I figure
if I don't intend to use the side fan it might be better to get a case
without the hole.

TIA for any input.
Graram

A side fan blows in directly on the MB, mainly right over the area of the
CPU and expansion cards. This would give you the greatest amount of cooling
when you factor in the chill factor. My Thermaltake case came with 7 fans,
four intake and 3 exhaust. Two front on the HDs (80mm, two side (120mm), two
on rear (80mm) and one on the top of the case (80 mm), works great on my P5W
DH Deluxe with crossfire.

"Graram" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:f79kah$bgb$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...
> I'm going to get a system primarily for video editing purposes. No
> overclocking.
> Core 2 Duo 6420 with standard Intel fan
> ASUS P5B-E (with 2Mb ram)
> 256Mb 7600GT Silent Pipe
>
> For the case I'm thinking about Coolermaster Centurian V/532/534 or
> Thermaltake Soprano, with 430W PSU. These cases usually come with rear
> (exhaust) fans, some with front fans (some optional) and all with optional
> side fans.
>
> My question is, for my set-up is it necessary to have more than say 1 case
> fan?
>
> And regardless, if I'm not using a side fan but the case has the opening
> for
> it, would that be detrimental to the cooling system to have the air
> entering
> the side just to go out the back without passing properly over the
> components (I think Intel recommends the air entering the front)? I figure
> if I don't intend to use the side fan it might be better to get a case
> without the hole.
>
> TIA for any input.
> Graram
>
>

Graram wrote:
> I'm going to get a system primarily for video editing purposes. No
> overclocking.
> Core 2 Duo 6420 with standard Intel fan
> ASUS P5B-E (with 2Mb ram)
> 256Mb 7600GT Silent Pipe
>
> For the case I'm thinking about Coolermaster Centurian V/532/534 or
> Thermaltake Soprano, with 430W PSU. These cases usually come with rear
> (exhaust) fans, some with front fans (some optional) and all with optional
> side fans.
>
> My question is, for my set-up is it necessary to have more than say 1 case
> fan?
>
> And regardless, if I'm not using a side fan but the case has the opening for
> it, would that be detrimental to the cooling system to have the air entering
> the side just to go out the back without passing properly over the
> components (I think Intel recommends the air entering the front)? I figure
> if I don't intend to use the side fan it might be better to get a case
> without the hole.
>
> TIA for any input.
> Graram
>
>

Basic airflow in a computer case, is from front to back.

To start with, you can start with one exhaust fan (in addition to the
fan on the PSU). The PSU fan doesn't count, because it could be temperature
controlled, and only speeds up when the PSU gets hot.

With the rear fan operating, place some stressful programs on the CPU.
Prime95, Orthos, S&M are examples of programs that load up the CPU.
They will cause the CPU to draw its maximum power. Using a temperature
monitoring utility, you'd want to watch the computer case temperature,
CPU temperature, hard drive temperature (may be available as a SMART
statistic, in programs such as SpeedFan from almico.com).

If you find the basic cooling config is insufficient, you can start modifying
things.

For basic airflow, I covered up the side vent in one of my computer cases. I
modified the front of the case a bit (removed some plastic), to get more vent
space on the front of the machine. It is good, if the hard drive can sit
next to the vent, and enjoy the cool air as it first enters the case.

Fanless video cards are seldom completely happy that way. I have two low
end cards that are fanless, and one of them is not stable unless there
is additional airflow while gaming. Some video card heatpipe coolers, have
cooling elements on the CPU side of the card, with the expectation that some
of the "spill air" from the CPU fan, will cool the video card. Depending on
the design of the CPU cooler, this objective may not always be met.

As a consequence, about half my computers have a fan mounted next to the
video card. If you don't do a lot of 3D stuff, maybe you don't need to
augment the video card cooling. But if you expect to game, it is something
you might want to test. At least some video cards have temperature sensing,
and with those, you can get a report of the GPU temperature.

If you had a power hungry processor, you might consider using the side
vent, adding a duct to control the side vent airflow and so on. An older
130W processor might benefit from some extra help. But your non-overclocked
6420 is 65 watts TDP, and probably doesn't need it.

The 7600GT is 35.8W in "peak 3D", your processor is 65W, and the whole computer
might not pull more than 150W-200W. A single exhaust fan on the back might be enough.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video...ise/7600gt.gif

Paul

"Graram" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:f79kah$bgb$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...
> I'm going to get a system primarily for video editing purposes. No
> overclocking.
> Core 2 Duo 6420 with standard Intel fan
> ASUS P5B-E (with 2Mb ram)
> 256Mb 7600GT Silent Pipe

Hi,

The new computer I just built for Video Editing is incomplete and unstable.

1) "standard Intel fan":

My HTPC system CPU, P4 3.2 GHz was thermal limiting with the "standard Intel
fan". I added the "ZALMAN CNPS7700-ALCU 120mm 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan" and
that system has been so stable that I stopped monitoring it. ASUS P5AD2-E
Premiun.

I have another "ZALMAN CNPS7700-ALCU 120mm 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan" on order
which I expect will also stop the Core 2 Duo E6700 from thermal limiting in
the new system.

2) Motherboard temperatures are extreme: 113F-115F. ASUS P5B Premium Vista
Edition.

3) The "Nexus Breeze 500 Watt Silent PC Case" I purchased for my Video
Editing computer may have been a very poor choice and may be the cause of
the extreme motherboard temperatures. It may become my HTPC system case as
it is so quiet and a case with better cooling purchased for the Video
Editing system.

4) 2Mb ram: I have a Computer with 2Mb. That amount of memory for it is more
than enough. CoCo, 1980. Surely you mean 2G which is what I have in my two
modern computers.

5) Over clocking: I agree that over clocking makes no sense for a Video
Editing computer. The instability is not worth the effort. It does not
matter if an overnight run takes 50 minutes longer. You are sleeping and
will not see the difference.

Stephen H. Fischer

Thanks for that Stephen, good to know (and yes, type on the 2Mb, I meant
2Gb). Thanks also to Paul & JamesH. As I haven't bought the stuff yet, what
I'll take from Paul's advice is to get a box with optional side/front fan,
tape the side hole up & see how things go. That way I'll have flexibility.

1) It's surprising the standard Intel fan is substandard in a normal
environment. What exactly do you mean by 'thermal limiting'? Does the system
run itself slower when it gets too hot?
If I were to get a fan, I was thinking about the Thermaltake Blue Orb II, or
whatever their recent equivalent is, but not for fancy looks, just price vs
functionality. Anyway, I'll find out how much the Intel fan is to subtract
and compare with additional cost of another fan.

3) It would help me to know what it is about the Nexus that was bad. Do you
think it was running hot because of its silent qualities? Ie, fans too slow?
At 1650RPM max that must be pretty quiet. This box would sit on the carpet
floor, so intake through the bottom not so good an idea.

4) I have NO IDEA where the bottleneck would be, so have NO IDEA whether 2GB
would be overdoing it for Video editing. Maybe I'll nominate all the specs &
throw the question out to the group in another post.

Any heads up anyone on the mentioned choices, or is it not worth going
silent? Please remember the computing purpose, and no overclocking.

Thanks all.
Graram
PS, sorry if I rambled too much.

"Stephen H. Fischer" <sfischer1@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:Jy6mi.7053$rR.5588@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
>
> "Graram" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:f79kah$bgb$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...
> > I'm going to get a system primarily for video editing purposes. No
> > overclocking.
> > Core 2 Duo 6420 with standard Intel fan
> > ASUS P5B-E (with 2Mb ram)
> > 256Mb 7600GT Silent Pipe
>
> Hi,
>
> The new computer I just built for Video Editing is incomplete and
unstable.
>
> 1) "standard Intel fan":
>
> My HTPC system CPU, P4 3.2 GHz was thermal limiting with the "standard
Intel
> fan". I added the "ZALMAN CNPS7700-ALCU 120mm 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan" and
> that system has been so stable that I stopped monitoring it. ASUS P5AD2-E
> Premiun.
>
> I have another "ZALMAN CNPS7700-ALCU 120mm 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan" on
order
> which I expect will also stop the Core 2 Duo E6700 from thermal limiting
in
> the new system.
>
> 2) Motherboard temperatures are extreme: 113F-115F. ASUS P5B Premium Vista
> Edition.
>
> 3) The "Nexus Breeze 500 Watt Silent PC Case" I purchased for my Video
> Editing computer may have been a very poor choice and may be the cause of
> the extreme motherboard temperatures. It may become my HTPC system case as
> it is so quiet and a case with better cooling purchased for the Video
> Editing system.
>
> 4) 2Mb ram: I have a Computer with 2Mb. That amount of memory for it is
more
> than enough. CoCo, 1980. Surely you mean 2G which is what I have in my two
> modern computers.
>
> 5) Over clocking: I agree that over clocking makes no sense for a Video
> Editing computer. The instability is not worth the effort. It does not
> matter if an overnight run takes 50 minutes longer. You are sleeping and
> will not see the difference.
>
> Stephen H. Fischer
>
>
>

Paul,
Regarding the fanless video card, if it means having to put a side fan in,
then I may as well get a Video Card with a fan, in which case I'd still like
it to be relatively quiet. Any comments on this?

BTW, it looks like the 7600GT has dropped off, with the 8600GT replacing it,
at least cost-wise.
Regards,
Graram

"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:f79sju$jr2$1@aioe.org...
> Graram wrote:
> > I'm going to get a system primarily for video editing purposes. No
> > overclocking.
> > Core 2 Duo 6420 with standard Intel fan
> > ASUS P5B-E (with 2Mb ram)
> > 256Mb 7600GT Silent Pipe
> >
> > For the case I'm thinking about Coolermaster Centurian V/532/534 or
> > Thermaltake Soprano, with 430W PSU. These cases usually come with rear
> > (exhaust) fans, some with front fans (some optional) and all with
optional
> > side fans.
> >
> > My question is, for my set-up is it necessary to have more than say 1
case
> > fan?
> >
> > And regardless, if I'm not using a side fan but the case has the opening
for
> > it, would that be detrimental to the cooling system to have the air
entering
> > the side just to go out the back without passing properly over the
> > components (I think Intel recommends the air entering the front)? I
figure
> > if I don't intend to use the side fan it might be better to get a case
> > without the hole.
> >
> > TIA for any input.
> > Graram
> >
> >
>
> Basic airflow in a computer case, is from front to back.
>
> To start with, you can start with one exhaust fan (in addition to the
> fan on the PSU). The PSU fan doesn't count, because it could be
temperature
> controlled, and only speeds up when the PSU gets hot.
>
> With the rear fan operating, place some stressful programs on the CPU.
> Prime95, Orthos, S&M are examples of programs that load up the CPU.
> They will cause the CPU to draw its maximum power. Using a temperature
> monitoring utility, you'd want to watch the computer case temperature,
> CPU temperature, hard drive temperature (may be available as a SMART
> statistic, in programs such as SpeedFan from almico.com).
>
> If you find the basic cooling config is insufficient, you can start
modifying
> things.
>
> For basic airflow, I covered up the side vent in one of my computer cases.
I
> modified the front of the case a bit (removed some plastic), to get more
vent
> space on the front of the machine. It is good, if the hard drive can sit
> next to the vent, and enjoy the cool air as it first enters the case.
>
> Fanless video cards are seldom completely happy that way. I have two low
> end cards that are fanless, and one of them is not stable unless there
> is additional airflow while gaming. Some video card heatpipe coolers, have
> cooling elements on the CPU side of the card, with the expectation that
some
> of the "spill air" from the CPU fan, will cool the video card. Depending
on
> the design of the CPU cooler, this objective may not always be met.
>
> As a consequence, about half my computers have a fan mounted next to the
> video card. If you don't do a lot of 3D stuff, maybe you don't need to
> augment the video card cooling. But if you expect to game, it is something
> you might want to test. At least some video cards have temperature
sensing,
> and with those, you can get a report of the GPU temperature.
>
> If you had a power hungry processor, you might consider using the side
> vent, adding a duct to control the side vent airflow and so on. An older
> 130W processor might benefit from some extra help. But your
non-overclocked
> 6420 is 65 watts TDP, and probably doesn't need it.
>
> The 7600GT is 35.8W in "peak 3D", your processor is 65W, and the whole
computer
> might not pull more than 150W-200W. A single exhaust fan on the back might
be enough.
>
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video...ise/7600gt.gif
>
> Paul

"Graram" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:f7c8kc$6qr$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...

> Thanks for that Stephen, good to know (and yes, type on the 2Mb, I meant
> 2Gb). Thanks also to Paul & JamesH. As I haven't bought the stuff yet,
> what
> I'll take from Paul's advice is to get a box with optional side/front fan,
> tape the side hole up & see how things go. That way I'll have flexibility.
>
> 1) It's surprising the standard Intel fan is substandard in a normal
> environment. What exactly do you mean by 'thermal limiting'? Does the
> system
> run itself slower when it gets too hot?

The CPU itself realizes that it is getting too hot and slows down or even
stops, I forget which. When it gets a little colder, it starts up again or
runs faster.

Just like you are under clocking the CPU. It could run faster is the heat is
taken away properly.

It has been a long time since I looked at this on my HTPC, adding the huge
ZALMAN fan stopped this 'thermal limiting' and my CPU temperatures remained
under the temperature limits for the CPU when the CPU was at 100% so I
stopped monitoring.

I forget what Utility I used to discover the 'thermal limiting'.

When the ASUS PC Probe II that came with the ASUS P5B Premium Vista Edition
seemed to be doing more harm than good, I downloaded Speedfan. A look at the
temperature charts immediately told me that the Intel supplied Fan was not
doing the job.

The P5 CPU generates less heat than the P4 CPU in my HTPC so the ZALMAN fan
may again be overkill. I would rather spend a few bucks more to insure that
the CPU is not running at its very hottest temperature. Doing so would just
be bad and may kill the CPU after some time.

> If I were to get a fan, I was thinking about the Thermaltake Blue Orb II,
> or
> whatever their recent equivalent is, but not for fancy looks, just price
> vs
> functionality. Anyway, I'll find out how much the Intel fan is to subtract
> and compare with additional cost of another fan.

It is now TWO out of TWO Intel CPU fans that have shown to be less than what
is needed.

The huge ZALMAN is perhaps overkill as it keeps my HTPC CPU cool with the
fan speed set to slow.

I am more concerned about the Motherboard temperatures being so hot.

> 3) It would help me to know what it is about the Nexus that was bad. Do
> you
> think it was running hot because of its silent qualities? Ie, fans too
> slow?

I need to do research as to what speed the Case fan can be run at. The only
path for heat out of the case is through the PSU. I need to determine if its
fan is running as fast as it needs to. Both fans, the case and the PSU one
both seem to be running too slow.

I am also concerned by the HDD temperatures. Everything in the box seems to
rise to 113F during a long Video processing run with the CPU at 100 %, what
the new system is intended to be used for.

> At 1650RPM max that must be pretty quiet. This box would sit on the carpet
> floor, so intake through the bottom not so good an idea.

I am not seeing that Fan speed, Case fan is running ~ 1172 RPM and the CPU
fan ~ 1118 RPM according to Speedfan.

When I tried a profile in ASUS PC Probe II other than "Silent", the system
hangs. Even with that profile the system sometimes hangs on startup. The
ASUS forum for the ASUS P5B Premium Vista Edition has lots of bad words
about it.

As there would be a board under the Nexus case should I put it on the floor,
the bottom fan would not be a problem.


> 4) I have NO IDEA where the bottleneck would be, so have NO IDEA whether
> 2GB
> would be overdoing it for Video editing. Maybe I'll nominate all the specs
> &
> throw the question out to the group in another post.

I believe that 1GB would be just fine. I got 2 GB in my HTPC by accident, 2
GB for my new computer may not be enough as I plan to run Windows
Server 2008 (Longhorn Server) later.

> Any heads up anyone on the mentioned choices, or is it not worth going
> silent? Please remember the computing purpose, and no overclocking.
>
> Thanks all.
> Graram
> PS, sorry if I rambled too much.

Graram wrote:
> Paul,
> Regarding the fanless video card, if it means having to put a side fan in,
> then I may as well get a Video Card with a fan, in which case I'd still like
> it to be relatively quiet. Any comments on this?
>
> BTW, it looks like the 7600GT has dropped off, with the 8600GT replacing it,
> at least cost-wise.
> Regards,
> Graram
>

The difference is, the quality of the fan that is used. I can find ball bearing
fans at my local electronics store. A video card manufacturer has access to
various kinds of sleeve bearing fans, and some of those have really sloppy
tolerances and don't seal in the lubricant. If I get to pick the fan, chances
are it will last longer than a fan selected by the manufacturer. (For fans that
fit within the heatsink, imagine what fun you'd have finding a replacement. With
an external fan, the replacement options are endless.)

As for the 7600GT thing, it was a good choice for a midrange card of its
generation. I don't really know enough about the new generation, to say whether
it is positioned as well. I think the power is in the same ballpark (less than
50W), but I haven't seen an article with measurements yet.

Paul