I've been running the same AI7 for many years now. It runs 24/7 and has
never given me a lick of trouble. Drives have been replaced occasionally,
but before any of them have died. Machine has an Antec Truepower 430W PS.
Recently, when I've had to actually power the system back up the PS will try
to start several times before finally "kicking in". It almost sounds like a
car trying to turn over. This happens several times, and then it will just
start. Once it does, it runs fine. AbitEQ seems to indicate that al the
voltages are correct once running. Any help on this appreciated.
On 2008-01-05, Tony <none@none.com> wrote:
> I've been running the same AI7 for many years now. It runs 24/7 and has
> never given me a lick of trouble. Drives have been replaced occasionally,
> but before any of them have died. Machine has an Antec Truepower 430W PS.
> Recently, when I've had to actually power the system back up the PS will try
> to start several times before finally "kicking in". It almost sounds like a
> car trying to turn over. This happens several times, and then it will just
> start. Once it does, it runs fine. AbitEQ seems to indicate that al the
> voltages are correct once running. Any help on this appreciated.
I would suspect the PSU rather than anything else. Although the
Trupower 430 is a fairly good unit running 24/7 inevitably does
means that things will fail sooner than you might expect. I'd have
a look at the PSU and if it is very dusty (bear in mind that it
usually takes a _lot_ of dust to cause problems) then I'd give it
a clean out.
This does mean opening the unit to do properly but if you take
common sense precautions when working with mains rated equipment
you should be OK. Bear in mind, however, that it is at least
possible mains voltage is present, even after you have turned off
and unpluged the unit, although this is unlikely particularly with
a quality make.
I'd also oil the fan bearings while I'm in there. While it is
possible that your PSU fans are genuinely wearing out they are ball
bearing units of reasonable quality so I would consider that
unlikely. It's certainly worth attempting some basic maintenance
first.
"Andrew Smallshaw" <andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote in message
news:slrnfnvbgs.l4m.andrews@sdf.lonestar.org...
> On 2008-01-05, Tony <none@none.com> wrote:
>> I've been running the same AI7 for many years now. It runs 24/7 and has
>> never given me a lick of trouble. Drives have been replaced occasionally,
>> but before any of them have died. Machine has an Antec Truepower 430W PS.
>> Recently, when I've had to actually power the system back up the PS will
>> try
>> to start several times before finally "kicking in". It almost sounds like
>> a
>> car trying to turn over. This happens several times, and then it will
>> just
>> start. Once it does, it runs fine. AbitEQ seems to indicate that al the
>> voltages are correct once running. Any help on this appreciated.
>
> I would suspect the PSU rather than anything else. Although the
> Trupower 430 is a fairly good unit running 24/7 inevitably does
> means that things will fail sooner than you might expect. I'd have
> a look at the PSU and if it is very dusty (bear in mind that it
> usually takes a _lot_ of dust to cause problems) then I'd give it
> a clean out.
>
Funny thing. After I posted this I looked through the homebuilt newsgroup
and found another posting describing a similar problem. Recommendations
there also pointed to the PS being the likely culprit.
> This does mean opening the unit to do properly but if you take
> common sense precautions when working with mains rated equipment
> you should be OK. Bear in mind, however, that it is at least
> possible mains voltage is present, even after you have turned off
> and unpluged the unit, although this is unlikely particularly with
> a quality make.
>
> I'd also oil the fan bearings while I'm in there. While it is
> possible that your PSU fans are genuinely wearing out they are ball
> bearing units of reasonable quality so I would consider that
> unlikely. It's certainly worth attempting some basic maintenance
> first.
>
On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 12:42:30 -0500, "Tony" <none@none.com>
wrote:
>> I would suspect the PSU rather than anything else. Although the
>> Trupower 430 is a fairly good unit running 24/7 inevitably does
>> means that things will fail sooner than you might expect. I'd have
>> a look at the PSU and if it is very dusty (bear in mind that it
>> usually takes a _lot_ of dust to cause problems) then I'd give it
>> a clean out.
>>
>
>Funny thing. After I posted this I looked through the homebuilt newsgroup
>and found another posting describing a similar problem. Recommendations
>there also pointed to the PS being the likely culprit.
A common fault with those is failure of the Fuhjyyu
capacitors. A visual inspection will usually find one or
more vented if that's the cause.
>
>> This does mean opening the unit to do properly but if you take
>> common sense precautions when working with mains rated equipment
>> you should be OK. Bear in mind, however, that it is at least
>> possible mains voltage is present, even after you have turned off
>> and unpluged the unit, although this is unlikely particularly with
>> a quality make.
>>
>> I'd also oil the fan bearings while I'm in there. While it is
>> possible that your PSU fans are genuinely wearing out they are ball
>> bearing units of reasonable quality so I would consider that
>> unlikely. It's certainly worth attempting some basic maintenance
>> first.
>>
>
>All good recommendations. Thanks.
If it is a ball bearing fan, oiling it may do little if any
good, and often makes the fan quite a bit noisier as the
bearing balls then rattlingn around a lot more in the lower
viscosity resulting when the oil mixes with the original
grease. Oil can be an emergency measure to keep one running
till it can be replaced but doesn't extend life much like it
will with a sleeve bearing.
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:29:29 -0500 'kony'
wrote this on alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
>If it is a ball bearing fan, oiling it may do little if any
>good, and often makes the fan quite a bit noisier as the
>bearing balls then rattlingn around a lot more in the lower
>viscosity resulting when the oil mixes with the original
>grease. Oil can be an emergency measure to keep one running
>till it can be replaced but doesn't extend life much like it
>will with a sleeve bearing.
Interesting. Last Easter I stripped down my system to clean and
lubricate all the fans with light oil and a puff of graphite powder.
IIRC one of the fans (probably the PSU) has ball bearings and it
does rattle a little since then. All the sleeve fans are running
very nicely. I must remember that next time :-)
abit.user wrote:
....
> Interesting. Last Easter I stripped down my system to clean and
> lubricate all the fans with light oil and a puff of graphite powder.
My rooster weathervane wasn't turning in the breeze, so I poured some
dry graphite into the bearing sleeve. Didn't help enough.
So I added oil too, and the resulting sludge made it worse than before.
On 2008-01-05, abit.user <abit.user@privacy.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:29:29 -0500 'kony'
> wrote this on alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
>
>>If it is a ball bearing fan, oiling it may do little if any
>>good, and often makes the fan quite a bit noisier as the
>>bearing balls then rattlingn around a lot more in the lower
>>viscosity resulting when the oil mixes with the original
>>grease. Oil can be an emergency measure to keep one running
>>till it can be replaced but doesn't extend life much like it
>>will with a sleeve bearing.
>
> Interesting. Last Easter I stripped down my system to clean and
> lubricate all the fans with light oil and a puff of graphite powder.
> IIRC one of the fans (probably the PSU) has ball bearings and it
> does rattle a little since then. All the sleeve fans are running
> very nicely. I must remember that next time :-)
Don't use graphite powder anywhere inside a computer - there is no
need for it in a PC and it could potentially do far more harm that
good. Graphite is electrically conductive so if it gets anywhere
it shouldn't there is no telling what may happen.
As for the noise issue, well I've heard it before and I still don't
see the rationale for it if you do everything properly in the first
instance. Don't use too much and don't use too light a grade.
Things like watch oil or WD40 in particular (because it is so
prevalent) are far too light for this application and will leak
out or evaporate over time, potentially taking some of the existing
oil with it. Standard 3 in 1 is good for this task as it is a
little heavier. Try to get the mineral oil version rather than
the vegetable oil equivalent, although to be honest there isn't a
great deal between the two in practice.
Beryl wrote:
> abit.user wrote:
> ...
>> Interesting. Last Easter I stripped down my system to clean and
>> lubricate all the fans with light oil and a puff of graphite powder.
>
> My rooster weathervane wasn't turning in the breeze, so I poured some
> dry graphite into the bearing sleeve. Didn't help enough.
> So I added oil too, and the resulting sludge made it worse than
> before.
Not really an apt analogy, unless you have a weathervane in your
computer. ;-)
On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 23:48:19 +0100 (CET) 'Andrew Smallshaw'
wrote this on alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt:
>On 2008-01-05, abit.user <abit.user@privacy.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:29:29 -0500 'kony'
>> wrote this on alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
>>
>>>If it is a ball bearing fan, oiling it may do little if any
>>>good, and often makes the fan quite a bit noisier as the
>>>bearing balls then rattlingn around a lot more in the lower
>>>viscosity resulting when the oil mixes with the original
>>>grease. Oil can be an emergency measure to keep one running
>>>till it can be replaced but doesn't extend life much like it
>>>will with a sleeve bearing.
>>
>> Interesting. Last Easter I stripped down my system to clean and
>> lubricate all the fans with light oil and a puff of graphite powder.
>> IIRC one of the fans (probably the PSU) has ball bearings and it
>> does rattle a little since then. All the sleeve fans are running
>> very nicely. I must remember that next time :-)
>Don't use graphite powder anywhere inside a computer - there is no
>need for it in a PC and it could potentially do far more harm that
>good. Graphite is electrically conductive so if it gets anywhere
>it shouldn't there is no telling what may happen.
>
>As for the noise issue, well I've heard it before and I still don't
>see the rationale for it if you do everything properly in the first
>instance. Don't use too much and don't use too light a grade.
>Things like watch oil or WD40 in particular (because it is so
>prevalent) are far too light for this application and will leak
>out or evaporate over time, potentially taking some of the existing
>oil with it. Standard 3 in 1 is good for this task as it is a
>little heavier. Try to get the mineral oil version rather than
>the vegetable oil equivalent, although to be honest there isn't a
>great deal between the two in practice.
Well, I used a small puff of graphite powder and a single drop of 3
in 1 oil inside the end caps of each sleeve fan with it *outside the
case* and cleaned each one up afterwards before re-installing. That
was last Easter and everything is running like magic. Even the PSU
fan isn't making enough noise to concern me.
On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 23:48:19 +0100 (CET), Andrew Smallshaw
<andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
>On 2008-01-05, abit.user <abit.user@privacy.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:29:29 -0500 'kony'
>> wrote this on alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
>>
>>>If it is a ball bearing fan, oiling it may do little if any
>>>good, and often makes the fan quite a bit noisier as the
>>>bearing balls then rattlingn around a lot more in the lower
>>>viscosity resulting when the oil mixes with the original
>>>grease. Oil can be an emergency measure to keep one running
>>>till it can be replaced but doesn't extend life much like it
>>>will with a sleeve bearing.
>>
>> Interesting. Last Easter I stripped down my system to clean and
>> lubricate all the fans with light oil and a puff of graphite powder.
>> IIRC one of the fans (probably the PSU) has ball bearings and it
>> does rattle a little since then. All the sleeve fans are running
>> very nicely. I must remember that next time :-)
>
>Don't use graphite powder anywhere inside a computer - there is no
>need for it in a PC and it could potentially do far more harm that
>good. Graphite is electrically conductive so if it gets anywhere
>it shouldn't there is no telling what may happen.
>
>As for the noise issue, well I've heard it before and I still don't
>see the rationale for it if you do everything properly in the first
>instance.
Ball bearings have some play in them to rotate, and once
worn onto the point of noise, even more play. They ride on
a film of grease. Adding oil reduces the film strength
allowing the bearings to move around more (in directions
they weren't supposed to be moving).
That's the rationale, but I also see it in practice.
Perhaps all ball bearing fans won't get noisier but IMO once
one is noisey it won't be improved long term with oil while
a sleeve bearing fan's life may be extended multiple times
it's original lifespan (if it weren't relubed). This mostly
pertains to the low quality sleeve bearing fans found in
PCs, not the higher quality ones like Papst or Panaflo.
>Don't use too much and don't use too light a grade.
>Things like watch oil or WD40 in particular (because it is so
>prevalent) are far too light for this application and will leak
>out or evaporate over time, potentially taking some of the existing
>oil with it. Standard 3 in 1 is good for this task as it is a
>little heavier. Try to get the mineral oil version rather than
>the vegetable oil equivalent, although to be honest there isn't a
>great deal between the two in practice.
The oil viscosity to use depends on the tolerances. A brand
new fan which isn't likely to need relubed yet (except some
very poor ones) will have tighter tolerance and a medium
weight instead of thin oil would be called for. With tight
fitting parts a very thick oil might not fully wick into the
bearingway but this situation is gone once the fan has worn.
Once a fan has worn the bearing, especially onto the point
of making noise or not turning properly there is a lot of
play in it, a larger gap that needs thicker, heavier weight
oil. Thin oil will slop, be pumped out of the bearing much
faster due to the elliptical wear pattern in the bearing and
simply due to gravity because of the lower film strength.
Thin oil can work, but will not reduce fan wobble as much so
the fan wears faster and will need to be reapplied much more
often. I would see thin oil as another emergency measure to
keep the fan running till a replacement can be found.
The situation changes when dealing with different kinds of
fan bearings not seen in PC fans. With larger fans such as
in a HVAC unit you will find much larger bearings and the
fans are typically relubed preventatively instead of after
the bearing is shot, and the bearing cup has a felt or
equivalent matting to hold the lubricant. In that case the
lubricant has to be thin enough to flow through the matting.
Since a PC fan's reservoir has no such matting but only
gravity to assist it, the thicker the oil the more it will
stay where it's supposed to.
Older Abit AI7 homebuilt acting oddly 
Linear Mode
