|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Mike Tomlinson
Guest
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:05 pm Post subject: K7S5A: bad caps again |
 |
|
Opened up my Linux box containing a 2-year old K7S5A today to fit a SCSI
card and noticed some swollen caps:
C425 (bottom of AGP slot - AGP voltage?) Luxon 1500uF 6.3v
C58 and C59 (CPU core voltage generator) Luxon 2200uF 6.3v
I'm rather fond of my 'S5A which has been running 24/7 for the last 2
years with almost zero problems, so will be taking the time out to
replace all the major caps. There are:
8 x 1500uF 6.3v
1 x 1500uF 10v
3 x 1800uF 6.3v (these are not Luxon, but marked OST I.Q)
7 x 2200uF 6.3v
All caps are 10mm diameter.
Will also replace the PSU as a precaution (it's a 250W.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Fix your Windows Problems - FAST.
FREE Safe Scan Registry Check. Locate & Fix Errors in Minutes!
|
|
alpha_uma
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:07 am Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
"Mike Tomlinson" <mike@NOSPAM.jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
news:1XUORSAB6B+AFwd7@jasper.org.uk...
| Quote: |
Opened up my Linux box containing a 2-year old K7S5A today to fit a SCSI
card and noticed some swollen caps:
C425 (bottom of AGP slot - AGP voltage?) Luxon 1500uF 6.3v
C58 and C59 (CPU core voltage generator) Luxon 2200uF 6.3v
I'm rather fond of my 'S5A which has been running 24/7 for the last 2
years with almost zero problems, so will be taking the time out to
replace all the major caps. There are:
8 x 1500uF 6.3v
1 x 1500uF 10v
3 x 1800uF 6.3v (these are not Luxon, but marked OST I.Q)
7 x 2200uF 6.3v
All caps are 10mm diameter.
Will also replace the PSU as a precaution (it's a 250W.)
|
The eight 3300uF caps (6.3V, 105degC, 10mm diameter, 5mm lead spacing) that
failed on my ECS P4VMM2 also carried the mark of "OST IQ".
Al-U |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Tomlinson
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:08 am Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
In article <Ea%Lc.97635$ek5.7992@pd7tw2no>, alpha_uma
<none_such@home.com> writes
| Quote: | The eight 3300uF caps (6.3V, 105degC, 10mm diameter, 5mm lead spacing) that
failed on my ECS P4VMM2 also carried the mark of "OST IQ".
|
I've ordered replacement caps from Farnell (here in the UK). I wasn't
able to find 1800uF 6.3v, so have ordered 2200uF 6.3v to replace those.
These are high-quality, low-impedance, 105C Rubycon caps. For anyone
who's interested, the Farnell (www.farnell.com/uk/) part numbers are:
767360 x8 1500uF 6.3v
769071 x1 1500uF 10v
768005 x10 2200uF 6.3v
Half an hour's work should get my 'S5A up and running again. I hope! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CJT
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
| Quote: | In article <Ea%Lc.97635$ek5.7992@pd7tw2no>, alpha_uma
none_such@home.com> writes
The eight 3300uF caps (6.3V, 105degC, 10mm diameter, 5mm lead spacing) that
failed on my ECS P4VMM2 also carried the mark of "OST IQ".
I've ordered replacement caps from Farnell (here in the UK). I wasn't
able to find 1800uF 6.3v, so have ordered 2200uF 6.3v to replace those.
These are high-quality, low-impedance, 105C Rubycon caps. For anyone
who's interested, the Farnell (www.farnell.com/uk/) part numbers are:
767360 x8 1500uF 6.3v
769071 x1 1500uF 10v
768005 x10 2200uF 6.3v
Half an hour's work should get my 'S5A up and running again. I hope!
Unless you've got the proper tools to desolder multilayer plate through |
boards, I think you'll find it will take a lot longer than half an hour,
even ignoring the time it'll take to get it out of and back into the
case. I recently changed ONE capacitor on a motherboard, and I finally
had to drill out the old solder to avoid damaging nearby components with
excessive heat; I don't recall how long it took start to finish, but I
know it was a lot longer than half an hour.
You might consider snipping out the old cap from the top, leaving enough
wire to connect to the new one -- if I had it to do over, I think that
might be the way I'd go.
The best solution is probably to send it back to the manufacturer (if
they'll repair it at reasonable cost).
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Of course, YMMV.
--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alpha_uma
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
"CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:410184AB.70805@prodigy.net...
| Quote: | Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article <Ea%Lc.97635$ek5.7992@pd7tw2no>, alpha_uma
none_such@home.com> writes
The eight 3300uF caps (6.3V, 105degC, 10mm diameter, 5mm lead spacing)
that
failed on my ECS P4VMM2 also carried the mark of "OST IQ".
I've ordered replacement caps from Farnell (here in the UK). I wasn't
able to find 1800uF 6.3v, so have ordered 2200uF 6.3v to replace those.
These are high-quality, low-impedance, 105C Rubycon caps. For anyone
who's interested, the Farnell (www.farnell.com/uk/) part numbers are:
767360 x8 1500uF 6.3v
769071 x1 1500uF 10v
768005 x10 2200uF 6.3v
Half an hour's work should get my 'S5A up and running again. I hope!
Unless you've got the proper tools to desolder multilayer plate through
boards, I think you'll find it will take a lot longer than half an hour,
even ignoring the time it'll take to get it out of and back into the
case. I recently changed ONE capacitor on a motherboard, and I finally
had to drill out the old solder to avoid damaging nearby components with
excessive heat; I don't recall how long it took start to finish, but I
know it was a lot longer than half an hour.
You might consider snipping out the old cap from the top, leaving enough
wire to connect to the new one -- if I had it to do over, I think that
might be the way I'd go.
The best solution is probably to send it back to the manufacturer (if
they'll repair it at reasonable cost).
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Of course, YMMV.
|
From what Mike has written in his message, I'd bet that he is an electronics
expert. I don't think your recommendation would apply to Mike.
It is NOT a good idea to send the motherboard back to the manufacturer for
repair unless the board is still under warranty. Personally, I don't trust
them anymore. If bad caps is the only problem with the motherboard, I can
fix the bad caps myself just as good as any decent technician.
If the board is already out of warranty, then fixing the bad caps yourself
is better than paying someone else to fix it for you provided that you have
the technical know-how because you can buy better quality caps yourself, and
spend as much time as you like to do the job well.
Fixing bad electrolytic caps is not rocket science. It only requires
moderately good soldering skills.
Al-U |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
CJT
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:04 am Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
alpha_uma wrote:
| Quote: | "CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:410184AB.70805@prodigy.net...
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article <Ea%Lc.97635$ek5.7992@pd7tw2no>, alpha_uma
none_such@home.com> writes
The eight 3300uF caps (6.3V, 105degC, 10mm diameter, 5mm lead spacing)
that
failed on my ECS P4VMM2 also carried the mark of "OST IQ".
I've ordered replacement caps from Farnell (here in the UK). I wasn't
able to find 1800uF 6.3v, so have ordered 2200uF 6.3v to replace those.
These are high-quality, low-impedance, 105C Rubycon caps. For anyone
who's interested, the Farnell (www.farnell.com/uk/) part numbers are:
767360 x8 1500uF 6.3v
769071 x1 1500uF 10v
768005 x10 2200uF 6.3v
Half an hour's work should get my 'S5A up and running again. I hope!
Unless you've got the proper tools to desolder multilayer plate through
boards, I think you'll find it will take a lot longer than half an hour,
even ignoring the time it'll take to get it out of and back into the
case. I recently changed ONE capacitor on a motherboard, and I finally
had to drill out the old solder to avoid damaging nearby components with
excessive heat; I don't recall how long it took start to finish, but I
know it was a lot longer than half an hour.
You might consider snipping out the old cap from the top, leaving enough
wire to connect to the new one -- if I had it to do over, I think that
might be the way I'd go.
The best solution is probably to send it back to the manufacturer (if
they'll repair it at reasonable cost).
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Of course, YMMV.
From what Mike has written in his message, I'd bet that he is an electronics
expert. I don't think your recommendation would apply to Mike.
|
Like I said, if he's got the right tools ...
I'm a degreed engineer; knowledge of what needs to be done isn't the
problem.
| Quote: | It is NOT a good idea to send the motherboard back to the manufacturer for
repair unless the board is still under warranty. Personally, I don't trust
them anymore. If bad caps is the only problem with the motherboard, I can
fix the bad caps myself just as good as any decent technician.
|
That's what I thought, too, and in fact I did accomplish it, but it took
a lot more effort than I expected.
| Quote: | If the board is already out of warranty, then fixing the bad caps yourself
is better than paying someone else to fix it for you provided that you have
the technical know-how because you can buy better quality caps yourself, and
spend as much time as you like to do the job well.
|
I sent one in which had a bunch of bad caps and the manufacturer turned
it around in a couple of days for 20 bucks. I couldn't even see the
repairs. That's hard to beat.
| Quote: | Fixing bad electrolytic caps is not rocket science. It only requires
moderately good soldering skills.
Al-U
|
YMMV.
--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TX_Dude
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:04 am Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 22:45:31 GMT, "alpha_uma" <none_such@home.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Fixing bad electrolytic caps is not rocket science. It only requires
moderately good soldering skills.
Al-U
|
I agree.....with caps, you can just heat the solder and "rock" the capacitor
to get the short wire out of the solder hole. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CJT
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:04 am Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
TX_Dude wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 22:45:31 GMT, "alpha_uma" <none_such@home.com> wrote:
Fixing bad electrolytic caps is not rocket science. It only requires
moderately good soldering skills.
Al-U
I agree.....with caps, you can just heat the solder and "rock" the capacitor
to get the short wire out of the solder hole.
|
Good luck with that.
--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alpha_uma
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:06 am Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
"CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:4101C142.3020300@prodigy.net...
<snip>
| Quote: | I sent one in which had a bunch of bad caps and the manufacturer turned
it around in a couple of days for 20 bucks. I couldn't even see the
repairs. That's hard to beat.
|
It is hard to beat twenty dollars! Does that include shipping both ways?
BTW, did you send yours directly back to ECS? Where are they located? How
long is the official warranty for a typical ECS motherboard? One year, two
years, or less?
It costs me about 8 US$ to replace eight 3300uF electrolytics at DigiKey
prices, but, of course, I have to buy more than just the 8 caps from DigiKey
in order to meet their minimum order amount without "penalty". And, of
course, time is money too. But, as you know, the tremendous satisfaction
later that you diagnosed it and fixed it yourself--priceless!
I wonder if the repair of the bad caps on your motherboard was done by a
machine instead of a human hand. Are you sure they didn't just replace your
board with another (used) one?
Al-U |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CJT
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:04 am Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
alpha_uma wrote:
| Quote: | "CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:4101C142.3020300@prodigy.net...
snip
I sent one in which had a bunch of bad caps and the manufacturer turned
it around in a couple of days for 20 bucks. I couldn't even see the
repairs. That's hard to beat.
It is hard to beat twenty dollars! Does that include shipping both ways?
|
No, one way shipping only, but I think it was only about 5 bucks to ship
it to them Fed Ex Ground (I wasn't counting that in the "couple of days
to turn it around." I was without the board for about a week and a
half, as I recall.).
Of course, new motherboards are pretty cheap nowadays, too. I chose to
stick with the one I had because otherwise I would have had to buy new
memory, too.
| Quote: | BTW, did you send yours directly back to ECS? Where are they located? How
long is the official warranty for a typical ECS motherboard? One year, two
years, or less?
|
The particular motherboard involved was an EPOX; I imagine ECS might
have a similar program in place, but I don't know any details. You'd
have to contact them.
I suspect the MB manufacturers have struck a deal with the supplier
of the bad caps that lets them recoup some of the costs, given the
potential for law suits.
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/resource/feb03/ncap.html
| Quote: |
It costs me about 8 US$ to replace eight 3300uF electrolytics at DigiKey
prices, but, of course, I have to buy more than just the 8 caps from DigiKey
in order to meet their minimum order amount without "penalty". And, of
course, time is money too. But, as you know, the tremendous satisfaction
later that you diagnosed it and fixed it yourself--priceless!
I wonder if the repair of the bad caps on your motherboard was done by a
machine instead of a human hand. Are you sure they didn't just replace your
board with another (used) one?
|
I got back the same board (I marked it). I don't know what magic they
might have used to fix it, but the caps were definitely replaced (they
were leaking and bulging -- easy to identify).
--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
larrymoencurly
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:05 am Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:<410184AB.70805@prodigy.net>...
| Quote: | Unless you've got the proper tools to desolder multilayer plate
through boards, I think you'll find it will take a lot longer
than half an hour, even ignoring the time it'll take to get
it out of and back into the case. I recently changed ONE
capacitor on a motherboard, and I finally had to drill out
the old solder to avoid damaging nearby components with
excessive heat;
You might consider snipping out the old cap from the top,
leaving enough wire to connect to the new one -- if I had it
to do over, I think that might be the way I'd go.
The best solution is probably to send it back to the manufacturer (if
they'll repair it at reasonable cost).
|
How many watts is your soldering iron rated for? I had bad luck with
the usual 25-35 watt irons and found that 40W was the minimum needed
for good results, with 45-50W being a lot better. Also some
desoldering wicks soak up much more solder than others, like the
ultra-fine or braided stuff, and I've been told that "No Clean" brand
is a favorite among technicians. It really helps to cut off the used
wick before proceeding tot he next pin. And if the solder doesn't
melt, sometimes it's best to just add more solder because apparently
the factory stuff has a higher melting temperature. Regular
electronics solder is 60% tin, 40% lead, but I once tried some 63% tin
solder that melted even easier.
www.mouser.com is sometimes cheaper than Digi-key and has no minimum.
Another good source is www.bdent.com , but I don't know about their
minimums. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Tomlinson
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:05 am Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
In article <410184AB.70805@prodigy.net>, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>
writes
| Quote: | Unless you've got the proper tools to desolder multilayer plate through
boards,
|
Sorry, I should have mentioned: we've got a decent temperature-
controlled vacuum desoldering station at work I can use. I'd planned to
cut each cap away, remove the legs separately, then use the desoldering
station to clear the holes.
Though I agree that it may take longer than half an hour  Thanks for
the warning. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alpha_uma
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
"Mike Tomlinson" <mike@NOSPAM.jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
news:QXCHxDBjLhABFwNY@jasper.org.uk...
| Quote: | In article <410184AB.70805@prodigy.net>, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net
writes
Unless you've got the proper tools to desolder multilayer plate through
boards,
Sorry, I should have mentioned: we've got a decent temperature-
controlled vacuum desoldering station at work I can use. I'd planned to
cut each cap away, remove the legs separately, then use the desoldering
station to clear the holes.
Though I agree that it may take longer than half an hour Thanks for
the warning.
|
A professional tip from BadCaps.Net advises against using the solder sucker
more than twice for each hole. In fact, a stainless steel dentist pick might
work just as well or even better than the sucker. Some time ago, I've
collected quite a number of links related to the "Bad Caps on Motherboards"
fiasco. I'm listing some of the more informative ones in my article below so
that others may also benefit from reading them (or be amused by them) as I
have.
Al-U
-----
Alpha Uma's Collection of Links Related to the "Bad Caps on Motherboards"
Fiasco and How to Replace Bad Electrolytic Capacitors on Motherboards
(C): July 24, 2004
Disclaimer: Use the following information completely at your own risk. No
effort is made to guarantee the accuracy or completeness of the information
contained in this article or the information contained in the articles
linked from this article. Repairing a motherboard yourself obviously voids
the manufacturer's warranty on the motherboard.
Warning: Do NOT try to repair a motherboard yourself unless (1) you are a
trained and qualified electronics professional, (2) you can live without the
manufacturer's warranty on the motherboard, (3) the motherboard is already
dead, (4) you are perfectly happy to use your dead motherboard as a
paper-weight should you fail to repair it yourself, and (5) you will not
suffer, financially, physically or otherwise, if your workmanship fail to
repair it or make it even worse than dead. In other words, repair a
motherboard at your own peril. You have been warned.
The following links are collected in no particular order of preferences.
Testing Capacitors:
The poor-man's way uses just the ohmmeter component of a digital
multimeter.
Use an ESR meter or an oscilloscope if you want more accurate results.
Rough: Ohmmeter
Better/Popular: ESR Meter
Best (Perhaps): Oscilloscope
Useful Links on Testing Caps:
http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/captest.htm
http://www.101science.com/101captesting.htm
http://octopus.freeyellow.com/esr.html
http://octopus.freeyellow.com/99.html
http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/esrscope.htm
Professional Tips and Services on Replacing Capacitors on Motherboards:
From Badcaps.Net:
http://www.badcaps.net/tips/rem/
From Gary Headlee's MotherboardRepair.Com:
http://www.motherboardrepair.com/index.php?sec=images
Replacing Capacitors on an ABIT VP6 Motherboard:
http://www.vp6-board.com/caps1.htm
How "Anyone" Can Replace Capacitors:
http://www.overclockers.com/tips1081/
How to Get It Done the "Ugly" way:
http://www.overclockers.com/tips758/
Some General Tips on Soldering Skills:
http://www.gameconsolerepair.com/solderinghelp.html
Historical Background on the "Bad Caps" Fiasco:
Leaking Capacitors Muck Up Motherboards (from IEEE Spectrum Online):
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/resource/feb03/ncap.html
Low-ESR Aluminum Electrolytic Failures Linked to Taiwanese Raw Material
Problems
(from Passive Component Industry Magazine):
http://www.niccomp.com/taiwanlowesr.htm
Probably More Than You Want to Know About Electrolytic Capacitors:
Basics:
http://www.oz.net/~coilgun/theory/capacitors.htm
Technical:
http://www.nichicon-us.com/english/lib/alminium.pdf
http://www.faradnet.com/index/toc.htm
http://www.aavidthermalloy.com/technical/papers/capacitor.shtml
http://www.elna-america.com/MTBF.htm
Copyright (July 24, 2004) Alpha Uma: Permission is hereby granted to copy
and reproduce the this article provided that (1) the exact content remains
unaltered, (2) the exact content is completely reproduced including this
copyright notice, and (3) credit is acknowledged with the phrase "Reprinted
with Permission from Alpha Uma". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TX_Dude
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:04 am Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 08:42:27 +0100, Mike Tomlinson <mike@NOSPAM.jasper.org.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: | In article <410184AB.70805@prodigy.net>, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net
writes
Unless you've got the proper tools to desolder multilayer plate through
boards,
Sorry, I should have mentioned: we've got a decent temperature-
controlled vacuum desoldering station at work I can use. I'd planned to
cut each cap away, remove the legs separately, then use the desoldering
station to clear the holes.
|
I have found this to be the best way.
The pads and traces are too delicate to do
any other way. Using a solder sucker and
heating em too long just raises the pad and
ruins it.
So I cut away the old cap, expose each leg,
and with a pair of small needle nose pliers,
I heat it, while gently pulling the leg....comes
out cleanly while applying the least amount
of heat. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alpha_uma
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:10 am Post subject: Re: K7S5A: bad caps again |
|
|
"Mike Tomlinson" <mike@NOSPAM.jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
news:QXCHxDBjLhABFwNY@jasper.org.uk...
| Quote: | In article <410184AB.70805@prodigy.net>, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net
writes
Unless you've got the proper tools to desolder multilayer plate through
boards,
Sorry, I should have mentioned: we've got a decent temperature-
controlled vacuum desoldering station at work I can use. I'd planned to
cut each cap away, remove the legs separately, then use the desoldering
station to clear the holes.
Though I agree that it may take longer than half an hour Thanks for
the warning.
|
Hey, Mike,
Have you fixed it yet?
Al-U |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Watched Topics
Search
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Profile
Log in
Memberlist
Usergroups