What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

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Guest

Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:40 am Post subject: What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

While looking at motherboards on the web I ran across these Dual Socket ones. I looked on wikipedia and it said a computer with two CPUs. That's sort of what I expected, but what's the purpose of two? Do they multiply the power? For example, if I installed two 1000mhz CPUs would I now have 2000mhz, or would it just double the power or the speed, or what? Are both CPUs working at the same time, or do they take turns? I guess I dont really understand the purpose of two. Also, does this mean that twice the power supply current and twice the memory are needed too? Scott

Paul
Guest

Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: Re: What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

scotttews@noemail.com wrote:

Quote:

While looking at motherboards on the web I ran across these Dual
Socket ones. I looked on wikipedia and it said a computer with two
CPUs. That's sort of what I expected, but what's the purpose of two?
Do they multiply the power? For example, if I installed two 1000mhz
CPUs would I now have 2000mhz, or would it just double the power or
the speed, or what? Are both CPUs working at the same time, or do
they take turns? I guess I dont really understand the purpose of two.

Also, does this mean that twice the power supply current and twice the
memory are needed too?

Scott

Computers with two sockets can multiply performance in two ways.

1) Start a program on one socket. Start a program on the other
socket. Both programs are running at the same time. You
get twice as much work done, in a given period of time.
You could shrink a DVD and use Winrar at the same time,
and have them finish in their normal time, even though
you are doing two things at once. If you had a single socket,
they would fight for a share of the time on the single
CPU.

2) Use a program like Photoshop. Work on an image. Press the
filter button. When you do, half the image is computed on
one socket and half the image is computed on the other
socket. Your filter operation happens in half the time.

These are ideal situations. There will be lots of situations
where the second socket isn't helping you at all. For example,
most of the software I own, is type (1). Hardly any of my software
is like Photoshop, the type (2) above. Much recent multimedia
software has been improved, to work like (2).

Using two sockets, uses twice the power of one socket (if the
processors are both being kept busy at the same time). If
one socket is idle, and the other one busy, the power might
be 30% more than with just one socket. An idle CPU still
draws power.

You use the normal amount of memory. That part doesn't
change.

Two sockets is faster. Under worst case conditions, it is
only 1x as fast. Under best case conditions, it is 2x as fast.
So it is not a "2x winner" all the time. Only some of the
time.

Paul

Andrew Smallshaw
Guest

Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

On 2007-05-18, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

Quote:

Two sockets is faster. Under worst case conditions, it is
only 1x as fast. Under best case conditions, it is 2x as fast.
So it is not a "2x winner" all the time. Only some of the
time.

While your explanation of multiprocessing was generally very good
I would take issue with this last paragraph. There's always an
overhead when MP is involved. In the extreme case this can mean
a performance reduction over a single processor configuration
(unusual but it does happen). At the other end of the scale, you'll
never get twice the performance. With a good configuration and
appropriate software an 80-90% increase is a possibility but you'll
never double it.

Of course, the processor(s) is/are only one part of the overall
system in any case, and for many (most?) desktop users the processor
is idling the vast majority of the time waiting for you to do
something or waiting on the disk/network/whatever. MP in such
circumstances is of questionable value.

--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org

Paul
Guest

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:42 am Post subject: Re: What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

Andrew Smallshaw wrote:

Quote:

On 2007-05-18, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
Two sockets is faster. Under worst case conditions, it is
only 1x as fast. Under best case conditions, it is 2x as fast.
So it is not a "2x winner" all the time. Only some of the
time.

While your explanation of multiprocessing was generally very good
I would take issue with this last paragraph. There's always an
overhead when MP is involved. In the extreme case this can mean
a performance reduction over a single processor configuration
(unusual but it does happen). At the other end of the scale, you'll
never get twice the performance. With a good configuration and
appropriate software an 80-90% increase is a possibility but you'll
never double it.

Of course, the processor(s) is/are only one part of the overall
system in any case, and for many (most?) desktop users the processor
is idling the vast majority of the time waiting for you to do
something or waiting on the disk/network/whatever. MP in such
circumstances is of questionable value.

It was an attempt at a broad brush answer. There
is always room for a little more detail :-)

Paul

Guest

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: Re: What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

On Fri, 18 May 2007 01:17:34 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

Quote:

scotttews@noemail.com wrote:
While looking at motherboards on the web I ran across these Dual
Socket ones. I looked on wikipedia and it said a computer with two
CPUs. That's sort of what I expected, but what's the purpose of two?
Do they multiply the power? For example, if I installed two 1000mhz
CPUs would I now have 2000mhz, or would it just double the power or
the speed, or what? Are both CPUs working at the same time, or do
they take turns? I guess I dont really understand the purpose of two.

Also, does this mean that twice the power supply current and twice the
memory are needed too?

Scott

Computers with two sockets can multiply performance in two ways.

1) Start a program on one socket. Start a program on the other
socket. Both programs are running at the same time. You
get twice as much work done, in a given period of time.
You could shrink a DVD and use Winrar at the same time,
and have them finish in their normal time, even though
you are doing two things at once. If you had a single socket,
they would fight for a share of the time on the single
CPU.

2) Use a program like Photoshop. Work on an image. Press the
filter button. When you do, half the image is computed on
one socket and half the image is computed on the other
socket. Your filter operation happens in half the time.

These are ideal situations. There will be lots of situations
where the second socket isn't helping you at all. For example,
most of the software I own, is type (1). Hardly any of my software
is like Photoshop, the type (2) above. Much recent multimedia
software has been improved, to work like (2).

Using two sockets, uses twice the power of one socket (if the
processors are both being kept busy at the same time). If
one socket is idle, and the other one busy, the power might
be 30% more than with just one socket. An idle CPU still
draws power.

You use the normal amount of memory. That part doesn't
change.

Two sockets is faster. Under worst case conditions, it is
only 1x as fast. Under best case conditions, it is 2x as fast.
So it is not a "2x winner" all the time. Only some of the
time.

Paul

Thanks for your detailed help.
Much Appreciated !!!!

Scott

DevilsPGD
Guest

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

In message <slrnf4rkd8.5bj.andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> Andrew Smallshaw
<andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:

Quote:

Of course, the processor(s) is/are only one part of the overall
system in any case, and for many (most?) desktop users the processor
is idling the vast majority of the time waiting for you to do
something or waiting on the disk/network/whatever. MP in such
circumstances is of questionable value.

While your explanation of multiprocessing was generally very good
I would take issue with this last paragraph.

Even though my CPUs/cores sit idle most of the time, when I do have one
of my CPUs doing something, it tends to be something both cores can do
at once. Perhaps that's just me?

--
If quitters never win, and winners never quit,
what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"?

Andrew Smallshaw
Guest

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

On 2007-05-19, DevilsPGD <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote:

Quote:

In message <slrnf4rkd8.5bj.andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:

Of course, the processor(s) is/are only one part of the overall
system in any case, and for many (most?) desktop users the processor
is idling the vast majority of the time waiting for you to do
something or waiting on the disk/network/whatever. MP in such
circumstances is of questionable value.

Even though my CPUs/cores sit idle most of the time, when I do have one
of my CPUs doing something, it tends to be something both cores can do
at once. Perhaps that's just me?

No, it's not just you. It's just that many users have no need for
even a dual-core system since a lot of software isn't gered up to
deal with them yet. As dual-core systems become common this will
probably change. Don't forget that many users do little more than
run Office and a web browser all day.

Speaking personally, I rarely hit 100% CPU usage. Even a large
compilation usually only hits ~70% CPU utilisation. The rest of
the time it's disk bound. If I played games all day the situation
might be different, but I'm not a gamer. I consider myself a power
user so how many people out there must there be that don't even
use their resources as much as me? I wasn't saying that there's
no use for MP, jsut that many users will make limited use of it.
It's a question of balancing how much use will be made of a second
CPU vs its additional cost.

In short, it comes down to the standard question when specifying
a new computer. What are you using it for?

--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org

DJT
Guest

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:56 am Post subject: Re: What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

On Sat, 19 May 2007 23:56:55 -0400, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Sun, 20 May 2007 12:58:26 +1000, DJT
dtope@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

I have an Althon 2500+ and I will be upgrading to Dual Core soon.
At present I run MS Excel with speadsheets around 28mb in size and
they run the CPU @100% for best part of 2 mins to open and close.
While doing that I have 50 web pages open in Firefox, Email Progarm
(not Outlook) & Agent Newsreader.

I am expecting that a dual core will show considerable improvement,
particularly while opening and closing Excel worksheets.

I'm suspecting you don't have a CPU bottleneck causing your
result, perhaps insufficient memory?

Try rebooting the system then using it typically, and after
running such a job and closing it when you see these long
lags, you should open Task Manager and compare the "Commit
Charge", "Peak" value to the "Physical Memory", "Total"
value. The Peak should be at least a couple hundred MB
below the Total for good performance (even more than a
couple hundred really, considering the level of
multitasking).

Thanks for the comments.
I have 1gig Memory installed
Commit Charge Peak is 960644K
Physical Memory 1048048k

This less than 200mb free. Do you think I lack memory even with 1 gig
installed

I plan to Have 2 Gig memory in new Computer

Thanks

DJT

kony
Guest

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:57 am Post subject: Re: What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

On Mon, 21 May 2007 09:52:58 +1000, DJT
<dtope@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

Quote:

I'm suspecting you don't have a CPU bottleneck causing your
result, perhaps insufficient memory?

Try rebooting the system then using it typically, and after
running such a job and closing it when you see these long
lags, you should open Task Manager and compare the "Commit
Charge", "Peak" value to the "Physical Memory", "Total"
value. The Peak should be at least a couple hundred MB
below the Total for good performance (even more than a
couple hundred really, considering the level of
multitasking).

Thanks for the comments.
I have 1gig Memory installed
Commit Charge Peak is 960644K
Physical Memory 1048048k

This less than 200mb free. Do you think I lack memory even with 1 gig
installed

I plan to Have 2 Gig memory in new Computer

It's not as bad as I thought it might be, but yes you would
benefit from more than 1GB. I still don't think opening or
closing a few dozen MB file should take over 2 minutes
though, that is a pretty long time.

Jeff
Guest

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:f2jcrc$fi8$1@aioe.org...

Quote:

scotttews@noemail.com wrote:

2) Use a program like Photoshop. Work on an image. Press the
filter button. When you do, half the image is computed on
one socket and half the image is computed on the other
socket. Your filter operation happens in half the time.

These are ideal situations. There will be lots of situations
where the second socket isn't helping you at all.

Paul

I would generally agree with Paul, and someone can correct me if wrong, but
there is just a small bit of overstatement here I suspect - at least for
now. I have an older (now spare) dual processor P3 that I've messed with to
determine when the second processor gets used. On that machine (running W2K
and XP), the 2nd processor sat idle almost 100% of the time (putting out
heat, making noise, and drawing power). Few programs are written in a way to
take advantage of that second processor in a user environment (rather than a
server), photoshop is one program that will, however. Just because it's
there won't mean that it will be used - most of the time it will sit idle -
at least with much of the current software out there.

As I understand it, Vista will better be able to make use of dual processors
and multicore processors and new software will continually come out that
will better use it also. ...but right now, your money is probably better
spent on upgrading other components instead of getting 2 processors. ...and
I think that this is the implication of your question.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Fix your Windows Problems - FAST.

FREE Safe Scan Registry Check. Locate & Fix Errors in Minutes!

www.Errorsweeper.com

DJT
Guest

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: Re: What's the purpose of a Dual Socket Mobo?

On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:28:27 -0400, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Mon, 21 May 2007 09:52:58 +1000, DJT
dtope@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

I'm suspecting you don't have a CPU bottleneck causing your
result, perhaps insufficient memory?

Try rebooting the system then using it typically, and after
running such a job and closing it when you see these long
lags, you should open Task Manager and compare the "Commit
Charge", "Peak" value to the "Physical Memory", "Total"
value. The Peak should be at least a couple hundred MB
below the Total for good performance (even more than a
couple hundred really, considering the level of
multitasking).

Thanks for the comments.
I have 1gig Memory installed
Commit Charge Peak is 960644K
Physical Memory 1048048k

This less than 200mb free. Do you think I lack memory even with 1 gig
installed

I plan to Have 2 Gig memory in new Computer

It's not as bad as I thought it might be, but yes you would
benefit from more than 1GB. I still don't think opening or
closing a few dozen MB file should take over 2 minutes
though, that is a pretty long time.

I think that part of the problem is that there are thousands of
formulas with references to other cells and worksheets, some of which
are not open.

I often wait 30-40 sec's when I move data or inset a column or row
due to the number of references involved.

DJT

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