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Guest
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 Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
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Was patitioning 160gb maxtor disk through maxtor utility. NTFS
formating was getting allowed only when dial reached 34gb mark.
Then same size disk was partitioned with size of primary set at 20gb
while installing OS.
But in the second instance lost something like 10gb disk space.
So wonder if for NTFS format of primary partition a certain percetage
of total size must be alloted in order not to lose any space on the
disk. |
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GT
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
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| Quote: | Was patitioning 160gb maxtor disk through maxtor utility. NTFS
formating was getting allowed only when dial reached 34gb mark.
Then same size disk was partitioned with size of primary set at 20gb
while installing OS.
But in the second instance lost something like 10gb disk space.
So wonder if for NTFS format of primary partition a certain percetage
of total size must be alloted in order not to lose any space on the
disk.
|
I don't exactly follow what you are saying here. An NTFS partition can be
any size (max = 2^64 = about 18.5 Million TeraBytes). Perhaps the maxtor
utility has a false minimum limit. What does it suggest to use for 33GB as
Fat32 is (falsly by windows) limited to 32GB, so if NTFS isn't allowed until
you reach 34GB, then 33GB is in "no man's land"!
The reason you are 'losing' over 10GB is this:
There is a problem with the term GB - it can be interpreted in 2 ways by
people with different backgrounds/outlooks. Some follow the mathematical
definition that Giga means 10^9 (1,000,000,000) and others follow the other
meaning (not sure what the dicipline is called) of Giga which is 2^30
(1073741824). This second term is sometimes refered to as Gibi (GIga in
BInary).
The marketing people at maxtor (and other drives), use the mathematical
definition to describe their drive capacities. So your 160GB drive holds
160,000,000,000 Bytes (mathematically accurate). Windows reports drive sizes
using the other definition, so to windows your drive holds 160 / 2^30 =
149GB.
Strange but true - the only industry or dicipline in the world where 160GB =
149GB! But this is probably where you are 'losing' over 10GB of space. The
answer is that you aren't losing the space, its just windows reporting the
size wrongly. |
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Ray.Milne
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
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"GT" <ContactGT_remove_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46443199$0$30277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
| Quote: |
The marketing people at maxtor (and other drives), use the mathematical
definition to describe their drive capacities. So your 160GB drive holds
160,000,000,000 Bytes (mathematically accurate). Windows reports drive
sizes using the other definition, so to windows your drive holds 160 /
2^30 = 149GB.
Strange but true - the only industry or dicipline in the world where 160GB
= 149GB! But this is probably where you are 'losing' over 10GB of space.
The answer is that you aren't losing the space, its just windows reporting
the size wrongly.
I would say Windows is reporting it correctly, the Manufacturers have |
changed the way of SELLING hard drive space.
Ray. |
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John Doe
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
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"GT" <ContactGT_remove_@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | The marketing people at maxtor (and other drives), use the
mathematical definition to describe their drive capacities. So
your 160GB drive holds 160,000,000,000 Bytes (mathematically
accurate). Windows reports drive sizes using the other definition,
so to windows your drive holds 160 / 2^30 = 149GB.
Strange but true - the only industry or dicipline in the world
where 160GB = 149GB! But this is probably where you are 'losing'
over 10GB of space. The answer is that you aren't losing the
space, its just windows reporting the size wrongly.
I would say Windows is reporting it correctly, the Manufacturers
have changed the way of SELLING hard drive space.
And you are not alone in being brainwashed by microsoft! This is the
big debate - one that tends to end it threads going 30+ replies deep
and never actually getting anywhere!
|
Because that's not how words are defined. Words are defined by usage.
| Quote: | Nobody can argue with this mathematically accurate statement:
160,000,000,000 => 160 x 10^9
|
There are other arguments, besides, definitions don't necessarily
follow what you consider to be the best logic. Definitions are what
human beings want them to be, whether a particular individual or group
of individuals like it or not. Mathematicians might want it one way,
engineers who design integrated circuits that move data to and from a
hard drive platter might want it another way. If you see it in the
dictionary, that's probably because educated speakers use that
definition, since that's where definitions come from. |
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GT
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
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| Quote: | The marketing people at maxtor (and other drives), use the mathematical
definition to describe their drive capacities. So your 160GB drive holds
160,000,000,000 Bytes (mathematically accurate). Windows reports drive
sizes using the other definition, so to windows your drive holds 160 /
2^30 = 149GB.
Strange but true - the only industry or dicipline in the world where
160GB = 149GB! But this is probably where you are 'losing' over 10GB of
space. The answer is that you aren't losing the space, its just windows
reporting the size wrongly.
I would say Windows is reporting it correctly, the Manufacturers have
changed the way of SELLING hard drive space.
|
And you are not alone in being brainwashed by microsoft! This is the big
debate - one that tends to end it threads going 30+ replies deep and never
actually getting anywhere!
Nobody can argue with this mathematically accurate statement:
160,000,000,000 => 160 x 10^9
The problem for some people (microsoft) is when we introduce the recognised
scientific exponential abbreviation for 10^9, Giga:
160,000,000,000 => 160 x 10^9 => 160GB
As you can see, I side with the mathematicians and agree that windows has
got it wrong because Giga means 10^9 for any numerical expression of
quantity. Similarly, Mega means 10^6 and Kilo means 10^3. |
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Fix your Windows Problems - FAST.
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Frank McCoy
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 12:44 am Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
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In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Grinder <grinder@no.spam.maam.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Frank McCoy wrote:
In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Grinder <grinder@no.spam.maam.com
wrote:
Frank McCoy wrote:
2. When partitioned, some of the space is lost defining the partition.
Also, far more space is lost in various formats that don't allow
partitioning the full space available; so there's some unpartitioned
space left over in almost every drive these days. The bigger the drive,
the more likely. In my 160-gig drive (for example), even when I tell
Windows to partition the entire drive as one huge volume, 8 gig is left
over. ;-{
GT wrote:
Why did you leave 8GB behind? Following installation of my new system drive,
I partitioned my Samsung Spinpoint 160GB 2 days ago, using windows and I am
using the full 160GB, there's is no 8GB space left! That's 160 Giga Bytes as
in 10^9. No approximations, no rounding, a pure 160GB. If you want me to
approximate it using some bizarre inaccurate power of 2, then its 149.05GB,
but we are still talking about 160,000,000,000 in 1 partition.
I've noticed that when partitioning a drive using the Windows XP/2000
installer, a small portion is always left unallocated. It's 8 megabytes
though, not 8 gigabytes.
Oops. Perhaps you're right.
Sorry about that.
No worries. If you do have an extra 8 GB on your system, would mind if
I stored some of my overflow pornography on it?
|
Sorry ... I'd use it to store my sex-stories on.
Can always use more room for that.
;-}
Trouble is:
Wouldn't be worth a *** as *backup*, since it'd still be on the same
drive. ;-{
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_ |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
|
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On 11 May, 10:05, "GT" <ContactGT_remo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Was patitioning 160gbmaxtordisk throughmaxtorutility. NTFS
formating was getting allowed only when dial reached 34gb mark.
Then same size disk was partitioned with size of primary set at 20gb
while installing OS.
But in the second instance lost something like 10gb disk space.
So wonder if for NTFS format of primarypartitiona certain percetage
of total size must be alloted in order not to lose any space on the
disk.
I don't exactly follow what you are saying here. An NTFSpartitioncan be
any size (max = 2^64 = about 18.5 Million TeraBytes). Perhaps themaxtor
utility has a false minimum limit. What does it suggest to use for 33GB as
Fat32 is (falsly by windows) limited to 32GB, so if NTFS isn't allowed until
you reach 34GB, then 33GB is in "no man's land"!
|
Untill over 33gb is reached the dial does stays in FAT32 zone only
after that it allows NTFS option.
I am sorry that I could not come back to my queryy earlier.
| Quote: | The reason you are 'losing' over 10GB is this:
There is a problem with the term GB - it can be interpreted in 2 ways by
people with different backgrounds/outlooks. Some follow the mathematical
definition that Giga means 10^9 (1,000,000,000) and others follow the other
meaning (not sure what the dicipline is called) of Giga which is 2^30
(1073741824). This second term is sometimes refered to as Gibi (GIga in
BInary).
The marketing people atmaxtor(and other drives), use the mathematical
definition to describe their drive capacities. So your 160GB drive holds
160,000,000,000 Bytes (mathematically accurate). Windows reports drive sizes
using the other definition, so to windows your drive holds 160 / 2^30 =
149GB.
Strange but true - the only industry or dicipline in the world where 160GB =
149GB! But this is probably where you are 'losing' over 10GB of space. The
answer is that you aren't losing the space, its just windows reporting the
size wrongly.
|
On the disk that was partitioned through maxtor utility sizes showing
are 32.8gb vs 116gb |
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GT
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
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<joshidm@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179129854.994243.144130@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | On 11 May, 10:05, "GT" <ContactGT_remo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Was patitioning 160gbmaxtordisk throughmaxtorutility. NTFS
formating was getting allowed only when dial reached 34gb mark.
Then same size disk was partitioned with size of primary set at 20gb
while installing OS.
But in the second instance lost something like 10gb disk space.
So wonder if for NTFS format of primarypartitiona certain percetage
of total size must be alloted in order not to lose any space on the
disk.
I don't exactly follow what you are saying here. An NTFSpartitioncan be
any size (max = 2^64 = about 18.5 Million TeraBytes). Perhaps themaxtor
utility has a false minimum limit. What does it suggest to use for 33GB
as
Fat32 is (falsly by windows) limited to 32GB, so if NTFS isn't allowed
until
you reach 34GB, then 33GB is in "no man's land"!
Untill over 33gb is reached the dial does stays in FAT32 zone only
after that it allows NTFS option.
I am sorry that I could not come back to my queryy earlier.
The reason you are 'losing' over 10GB is this:
There is a problem with the term GB - it can be interpreted in 2 ways by
people with different backgrounds/outlooks. Some follow the mathematical
definition that Giga means 10^9 (1,000,000,000) and others follow the
other
meaning (not sure what the dicipline is called) of Giga which is 2^30
(1073741824). This second term is sometimes refered to as Gibi (GIga in
BInary).
The marketing people atmaxtor(and other drives), use the mathematical
definition to describe their drive capacities. So your 160GB drive holds
160,000,000,000 Bytes (mathematically accurate). Windows reports drive
sizes
using the other definition, so to windows your drive holds 160 / 2^30 =
149GB.
Strange but true - the only industry or dicipline in the world where
160GB =
149GB! But this is probably where you are 'losing' over 10GB of space.
The
answer is that you aren't losing the space, its just windows reporting
the
size wrongly.
On the disk that was partitioned through maxtor utility sizes showing
are 32.8gb vs 116gb
|
So that is 0.2gB short of 149gB. So you have not lost any space, its just
being reported using the 'other' measuring scale.
When you get into Windows, go to: Start->Settings->Control
Panel->Administrative Tools->Disk Management and see what it reports for the
drive in there. What I tend to do when partitioning a drive as a system boot
drive is to create the system partition first, then get Windows installed
onto it. Make sure you have at least service pack 1 installed (to get over
137GB on larger drives), then use the above Disk Management link to create
the second partition. Windows will allocate the complete remaining drive
space and not leave any wasted space. |
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Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
|
|
On 14 May, 09:47, "GT" <ContactGT_remo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | josh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179129854.994243.144130@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On 11 May, 10:05, "GT" <ContactGT_remo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Was patitioning 160gbmaxtordisk throughmaxtorutility. NTFS
formating was getting allowed only when dial reached 34gb mark.
Then same size disk was partitioned with size of primary set at 20gb
while installing OS.
But in the second instance lost something like 10gb disk space.
So wonder if for NTFS format of primarypartitiona certain percetage
of total size must be alloted in order not to lose any space on the
disk.
I don't exactly follow what you are saying here. An NTFSpartitioncan be
any size (max = 2^64 = about 18.5 Million TeraBytes). Perhaps themaxtor
utility has a false minimum limit. What does it suggest to use for 33GB
as
Fat32 is (falsly by windows) limited to 32GB, so if NTFS isn't allowed
until
you reach 34GB, then 33GB is in "no man's land"!
Untill over 33gb is reached the dial does stays in FAT32 zone only
after that it allows NTFS option.
I am sorry that I could not come back to my queryy earlier.
The reason you are 'losing' over 10GB is this:
There is a problem with the term GB - it can be interpreted in 2 ways by
people with different backgrounds/outlooks. Some follow the mathematical
definition that Giga means 10^9 (1,000,000,000) and others follow the
other
meaning (not sure what the dicipline is called) of Giga which is 2^30
(1073741824). This second term is sometimes refered to as Gibi (GIga in
BInary).
The marketing people atmaxtor(and other drives), use the mathematical
definition to describe their drive capacities. So your 160GB drive holds
160,000,000,000 Bytes (mathematically accurate). Windows reports drive
sizes
using the other definition, so to windows your drive holds 160 / 2^30 =
149GB.
Strange but true - the only industry or dicipline in the world where
160GB =
149GB! But this is probably where you are 'losing' over 10GB of space.
The
answer is that you aren't losing the space, its just windows reporting
the
size wrongly.
On the disk that was partitioned throughmaxtorutility sizes showing
are 32.8gb vs 116gb
So that is 0.2gB short of 149gB. So you have not lost any space, its just
being reported using the 'other' measuring scale.
|
I lost some where partition was done not through Maxtor Utility but
while doing fresh installation of win2kpro. There it was opted 20gb
and rest. 20gb shows 19.5gb but rest is showing 108gb.
| Quote: | When you get into Windows, go to: Start->Settings->Control
Panel->Administrative Tools->Disk Management and see what it reports for the
drive in there. What I tend to do when partitioning a drive as a system boot
drive is to create the systempartitionfirst, then get Windows installed
onto it. Make sure you have at least service pack 1 installed (to get over
137GB on larger drives), then use the above Disk Management link to create
the secondpartition. Windows will allocate the complete remaining drive
space and not leave any wasted space.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text - |
|
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
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On 14 May, 17:41, "GT" <ContactGT_remo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Sounds like a drive size limit with that version of windows. I can't comment
on Win2000, but the 2 sizes you quote there add up to 127gB, so probably a
software issue regarding accessing drivers over that size. You should be
able to use the rest of the drive when you do the disk management in WinXP
and possible even use a utility to resize the 108gBpartition.
|
I do uncomplicated things on machines which are used remotely by
people devising applications.
On face of it loss of space amounts to twice what I thought.
20gb partition has OS on it and I doubt if remote operators would try
to do anything on 108gb partition.
Machine has second 500gb disk showing regular 465gb space. |
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kony
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
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On Wed, 16 May 2007 21:54:35 +0100, "GT"
<ContactGT_remove_@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:o5om43tb01o3q9fk84f9e4q7mjr3vihckf@4ax.com...
A hard drive is a binary storage device. Windows is
measuring correctly. Until a hard drive is no longer a
binary storage device, it is always "proper" to measure it
as such.
You are taking some trival knowledge about decimal versus
binary and leaping to an unfounded conclusion.
Kony, we have been here before and didn't get anywhere then! I think we both
have better things to do!
|
Still doesn't change the fact that a hard drive is a binary
storage device. You can't arbitrarily count how many apples
you have when staring at a bushel of oranges.
The day a hard drive becomes a decimal system based-storage
device, you will be correct. |
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GT
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
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| Quote: | Still doesn't change the fact that a hard drive is a binary
storage device.
|
No one said it does. I am counting how many 'slots' the drive has to offer,
not what it stores.
| Quote: | You can't arbitrarily count how many apples
you have when staring at a bushel of oranges.
|
1000 apples is the quantity as 1000 oranges, which is the same quantity as
1000 Bytes. These can all be abbreviated to 1k apple, or 1k orange, or 1k
Byte. Or do you still need to invent an extra imaginary 24 bytes, just so
the standard mathematical quantity is increased to match an an arbitrary
power of 2?
| Quote: | The day a hard drive becomes a decimal system based-storage
device, you will be correct.
|
You are contradicting yourself - you insist that since a hard drive holds 0s
and 1's, we must count the quantity of potential values using binary, but
then you go and count them in decimal yourself and multiply by 2 to a
power?!? This makes no sense at all! Truth is that you can count the
quantity of anything using whatever base you choose.
To expand on your statement: You are telling us that because something holds
values that are in 2 possible states, then we must count the quantity of
those states using a base 2 (even though you use base 10 yourself). So if we
were talking about something that could be in 6 possible states (a dice for
example), then according to your theory, we would have to count the quantity
of dice using base 6??? Nonsense. We do not need to determine how many
states something can be in before we can count how many of them we have? How
do you count cars, or people when you don't know how many states they can be
in?!?
1k = 1000 in decimal and 1111101000 in binary, but it doesn't equal 1 x
2^10. The binary number 10000000000 equals 1024 in decimal, which is more
than 1k. |
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Robert Heiling
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:45 am Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
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kony wrote:
| Quote: |
On Thu, 17 May 2007 15:00:24 -0700, Robert Heiling
robheil@comcast.net> wrote:
Your opinion can't change the reality of the matter.
Nor can yours.
|
That goes without saying.
| Quote: | It'll be a binary storage device regardless
of our opinions.
|
You can do the counting in binary or decimal or in any other system as you
choose. None of that changes the number of bytes on the device. |
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kony
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:46 am Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
|
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On Thu, 17 May 2007 11:04:30 +0100, "GT"
<ContactGT_remove_@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | The day a hard drive becomes a decimal system based-storage
device, you will be correct.
You are contradicting yourself -
|
Nope, you just can't accept the fact that it's a binary
storage device and as such, how much it stores is binary. |
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kony
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:46 am Post subject: Re: What percentage must be alloted to primary partition. |
|
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On Thu, 17 May 2007 08:19:34 -0700, Robert Heiling
<robheil@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | It's a shame that you've chosen to blow so much of your credibility on this
topic. Nevertheless, being so very wrong on this one does cast your opinion on
other some matters in doubt.
Bob
|
Nice try but no cigar. It's a binary storage device.
Nothing to argue about. |
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