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Dave
Guest
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 Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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I run my laptop +90% of the time on AC. - rarely on battery power.
I have charged the battery and removed it while running AC.
what is the opinion of the group regarding this method?
My thinking is that the fewer times it is subjected to even a partial
recharge, the better it is for the battery.
The only drawback I can see is during those rare occasions of a power
failure..
Dave.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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olfart
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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"Dave" <sylndave@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:46434477$0$16360$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
| Quote: | I run my laptop +90% of the time on AC. - rarely on battery power.
I have charged the battery and removed it while running AC.
what is the opinion of the group regarding this method?
My thinking is that the fewer times it is subjected to even a partial
recharge, the better it is for the battery.
The only drawback I can see is during those rare occasions of a power
failure..
I do the same thing. A small UPS can be had for around $20 that will solve |
the power failure problem. |
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Barry Watzman
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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The consensus is that you are doing the right thing. Leaving a battery
in place in your situation tends to destroy them in 2 years +/-. [And I
service laptops and I see this a lot].
My only other comments are:
1. The battery does need some "exercise" every 2-3 months, and the
manufacturers all say that Lithium ion batteries store best at about 60%
rather than full charge (however, I have not observed a significant
difference in that regard).
2. Consider getting a low-end UPS (350VA or so, about $30) to protect
against power failures while using the laptop. It's still cheaper ... a
LOT cheaper ... than a $200 battery.
Dave wrote:
| Quote: | I run my laptop +90% of the time on AC. - rarely on battery power.
I have charged the battery and removed it while running AC.
what is the opinion of the group regarding this method?
My thinking is that the fewer times it is subjected to even a partial
recharge, the better it is for the battery.
The only drawback I can see is during those rare occasions of a power
failure..
Dave.
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Salvador Freemanson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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olfart wrote:
| Quote: | "Dave" <sylndave@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:46434477$0$16360$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
I run my laptop +90% of the time on AC. - rarely on battery power.
I have charged the battery and removed it while running AC.
what is the opinion of the group regarding this method?
My thinking is that the fewer times it is subjected to even a partial
recharge, the better it is for the battery.
The only drawback I can see is during those rare occasions of a power
failure..
I do the same thing. A small UPS can be had for around $20 that will solve
the power failure problem.
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In my experience power failure comes from things like tripping over the
cable to the laptop, or on an older laptop a loose fitting barrel
connector. In these cases a UPS is of no help. |
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olfart
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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"Salvador Freemanson" <spam@gohome.com> wrote in message
news:46438ca0$0$24924$426a34cc@news.free.fr...
| Quote: | olfart wrote:
"Dave" <sylndave@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:46434477$0$16360$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
I run my laptop +90% of the time on AC. - rarely on battery power.
I have charged the battery and removed it while running AC.
what is the opinion of the group regarding this method?
My thinking is that the fewer times it is subjected to even a partial
recharge, the better it is for the battery.
The only drawback I can see is during those rare occasions of a power
failure..
I do the same thing. A small UPS can be had for around $20 that will
solve the power failure problem.
In my experience power failure comes from things like tripping over the
cable to the laptop, or on an older laptop a loose fitting barrel
connector. In these cases a UPS is of no help.
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so then use your $200 battery all the time. "You pays your money and you
takes your choice" |
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nunamus
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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My Dell E1405 is fitted with the extended (8.5 hours spec, 7.5
hours in reality) battery, which is about $75 incl shipping on
eBay. I find it a great luxury to use it on my lap without a
power cable. And, there have been times when I got stuck
somewhere and either read a book or watched a movie while
waiting. If the difference is a new battery more often, the
amortized cost is insignificant compared to the convenience. |
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Barry Watzman
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:26 am Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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Hey, like the man says, you pays your money and you takes your choice.
It's your battery and your money.
nunamus wrote:
| Quote: | My Dell E1405 is fitted with the extended (8.5 hours spec, 7.5 hours in
reality) battery, which is about $75 incl shipping on eBay. I find it a
great luxury to use it on my lap without a power cable. And, there have
been times when I got stuck somewhere and either read a book or watched
a movie while waiting. If the difference is a new battery more often,
the amortized cost is insignificant compared to the convenience. |
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Salvador Freemanson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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olfart wrote:
| Quote: |
so then use your $200 battery all the time. "You pays your money and you
takes your choice"
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My solution is to use an old battery which can last for a few minutes
when the laptop is on mains. I only use my new battery when I am mobile. |
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jaap
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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Hi Barry,
I've got two hardly used Sony BP71 batteries which won't charge after
leaving them out for about 4-5 months. Do you know of a fix? I guess
they are too deep discharged.
Jaap
Barry Watzman wrote:
| Quote: | The consensus is that you are doing the right thing. Leaving a battery
in place in your situation tends to destroy them in 2 years +/-. [And I
service laptops and I see this a lot].
My only other comments are:
1. The battery does need some "exercise" every 2-3 months, and the
manufacturers all say that Lithium ion batteries store best at about 60%
rather than full charge (however, I have not observed a significant
difference in that regard).
[...] |
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Barry Watzman
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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I have done this with Ni Cad and NiMH batteries, but I don't recommend
it or do it for Lithium batteries. This is EXTREMELY dangerous, the
laptop and the onboard microprocessor THINK that they know the
characteristics of the cells, but when you have changed the cells, their
information is incorrect and the results can be disastrous.
Ike wrote:
| Quote: | For the technically fearless:
I've disassembled laptop batteries a few times and replaced cells with
new ones that are typically of higher capacity than the originals. It's
fairly easy to do, and there are a couple of guides online (one of which
I contributed to). Just a few tools, an hour or so, and you can have an
improved battery for less than half the cost of a replacement.
There are several Asian sources for cells at much lower prices than
published U.S. sources. I prefer "aw", who has a sort of store on
candlepowerforums.com - reliable, incredibly cost-effective, etc.
Using the same source and approach, it's possible to assemble an
external set of cells that can operate a laptop and recharge the
internal battery via the power jack. I have one that ran my previous
laptop - a P4 3GHz - for six hours using 3.7V 18650 cells in
series-parallel, and a regulator! It's a little tricky, and works only
on those units that have a two-conductor power jack, but in some
situations this is great to have.
Just remember: a battery or cell, by definition, is packed with energy
that can be released slowly to power an electrical device, or suddenly
and explosively if you are not careful. |
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Ike
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 3:05 am Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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Barry's right in that building a battery can be hazardous.
However, friends and I have done it many times over the past
decade, in nickel-metal-hydride and lithium ion, without
problem. Apparently the intelligent management circuit doesn't
depend upon a charge/discharge profile in ROM (which would be
specific to the cells used), but adapts.
That does NOT guarantee that you'll be lucky... |
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BillW50
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 3:06 am Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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"Ike" <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:46479681$0$9877$4c368faf@roadrunner.com
| Quote: | Barry's right in that building a battery can be hazardous.
However, friends and I have done it many times over the past
decade, in nickel-metal-hydride and lithium ion, without
problem. Apparently the intelligent management circuit doesn't
depend upon a charge/discharge profile in ROM (which would be
specific to the cells used), but adapts.
That does NOT guarantee that you'll be lucky...
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There are professionals who do this all of the time. This isn't one of
them, but I found it on Google. I can't say if they are 100% correct or
not.
http://www.electronics-lab.com/articles/Li_Ion_reconstruct/index.html
--
Bill |
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M.I.5¾
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:46472738$0$9897$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
| Quote: | I know of no way to fix that. Once lithium batteries discharge below a
critical point, they are shot. Usually, it takes 1-2 years for a fully
charged battery to get that low, but sometimes it can happen sooner.
Occasionally, however, I've been able to get batteries back above the
critical level by simply plugging them into a charger repeatedly (they
charge for just a few seconds before the charger shuts down). In the end,
however, even when apparently successful, those batteries never really
held a good charge.
|
You are lucky. The chemistry of Lithum ion batteries is such that when the
charge state has dropped low enough (a little less 3.0 volts per cell),
copper is thrown out of the electrolyte which coats the internal structure
of the cell. This provides an alternative discharge path. If there is
enough of this copper, it can create a discharge path that will cause the
cell to rupture and explode. This is why chargers are set up not to charge
overdischarged batteries. There is no means by which the copper can be
drawn back into the chemistry.
Since the copper deposition is a time and temperature related phenomenon
(not to mention a few other variables), it is often possible to recover an
over discharged battery that been in this condition for a short time only
(not more than a few days). The battery can be recovered by passing a small
charging current to bring the voltage above 3.2 volts per cell*. The
battery can then be charged normally, but this should be done in a location
where there is nothing that you would like to see destroyed within 6 feet of
the battery. Leave the charged battery for 24 hours in this location.
After that, normal use can be continued, but expect the battery to self
discharge faster than normal.
*Many battery constructions have internal circuitry to prevent even this
remedial technique. |
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M.I.5¾
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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"jaap" <fake@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:46472da5$0$12430$e4fe514c@dreader15.news.xs4all.nl...
| Quote: | It's a series connection of cells and if not matched there will be one
cell reversing polarity eventually. I guess that's what causing the
deterioration of Li-ion batteries. In the good'ol days we had NiCads which
didn't suffer from this problem as much (but from other problems). I kept
a 1998 200MHz notebook, still going strong on it's original NiCad battery
:)
Will try the fiddling with the battery you suggested. Thanks.
|
In multiple series cell constructions (and in many cases series/parallel),
the battery internal electronics will (or should!) monitor the individual
cells. The monitor should prevent the entire battery from being charged if
*any* cell falls below 3.0 volts. Similarly, it ends the discharge when any
cell falls below 3.2 volts.
| Quote: |
Barry Watzman wrote:
I know of no way to fix that. Once lithium batteries discharge below a
critical point, they are shot. Usually, it takes 1-2 years for a fully
charged battery to get that low, but sometimes it can happen sooner.
Occasionally, however, I've been able to get batteries back above the
critical level by simply plugging them into a charger repeatedly (they
charge for just a few seconds before the charger shuts down). In the
end, however, even when apparently successful, those batteries never
really held a good charge.
jaap wrote:
Hi Barry,
I've got two hardly used Sony BP71 batteries which won't charge after
leaving them out for about 4-5 months. Do you know of a fix? I guess
they are too deep discharged.
Jaap
Barry Watzman wrote:
The consensus is that you are doing the right thing. Leaving a battery
in place in your situation tends to destroy them in 2 years +/-. [And
I service laptops and I see this a lot].
My only other comments are:
1. The battery does need some "exercise" every 2-3 months, and the
manufacturers all say that Lithium ion batteries store best at about
60% rather than full charge (however, I have not observed a significant
difference in that regard).
[...] |
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M.I.5¾
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: Re: battery stays in all the time or not? |
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"Ike" <binarydotike@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:46474d29$0$1336$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
| Quote: | For the technically fearless:
I've disassembled laptop batteries a few times and replaced cells with new
ones that are typically of higher capacity than the originals. It's fairly
easy to do, and there are a couple of guides online (one of which I
contributed to).
|
And the advice and instructions in some of these on line guides is just
plain dangerous. Do you really know what you are doing of have you just
cobbled together much hearsay, like many of those guides.
Barry has warned, and I shall repeat.
Unless you really really know what you are doing, and fully understand the
chemistry and dangers of Lithium battery technology,
DON'T MESS WITH LITHIUM ION BATTERIES.
A lithium battery fire is quite impossible to extinguish.
| Quote: | Just a few tools, an hour or so, and you can have an improved battery for
less than half the cost of a replacement.
|
and if you don't know what you are doing, you can have a chared pile of
rubble that used to be a house. |
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