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| Author |
Message |
w_tom
Guest
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 Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:21 am Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
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On May 1, 7:03 pm, "JM" <j...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | The activities of the front panel lights don't tell me anything, although
I'm not sure I would know what I'm looking at anyway. The power light is
on, of course, as the "network" light (as the csr called it), indicating
sync with the ISP. Then there two opposing "lightening bolt" lights
(upstream/downstream) that flicker contstantly. They seem to flicker 3
times in unison, and then several times alternating. Then there are
numbered lights for the lan ports connected.
As for network monitoring, I asked about that, and, you're correct, it's not
something they can do from their local help desk. They simply don't have
the tools.
|
Your modem is receiving radio waves. Just like any radio, signal
integrity is determined by signal strength, or more important, Signal
to Noise ratio.
Many cable modems for some reason cannot bother to provide that
critical parameter. Without it, then one can only speculate whether
the cable connection is good or bad. As obvious from responses -
modem 'swappers' are only speculating. Wildly replacing modems
without first learning what is wrong. Without that 'signal to noise'
ratio number, then no one can even know which side of the modem is
failing.
That number is displayed by a modem on a status page. But only if
the cable provider had an engineer (not a bean counter) selecting
modems.
Meanwhile, eliminate other reasons for intermittent operation.
Start with something so often forgotten by untrained cable installers
and that can permit household or neighborhood appliances to create
intermittent failures. That cable must drop down to be connected
'less than 10 feet' to the same earthing electrode that is also 'less
than 10 feet' from the breaker box. Make that earthing connection
before cable enters the building. Connected to an earth ground that
every other utility also connects to; using a ground block (as even
sold in Lowes for $2) and 'less than 10 feet' of 12 AWG wire.
Next, where does that cable wire route. What else connects to it?
An alternative test is to route a wire direct to where cable enters
the building with nothing else connected - and change nothing else.
Does system work more reliable? You would know that immediately if
modem provided S/N ratio numbers. Of course this test performed only
because useful information to identify a fault is (apparently) not
available AND your cable 'tech support' has no idea.
Meanwhile, a computer can connect directly to modem's status page -
constantly. That being one way to monitor customer side of the
modem. When outside connection is lost, is that modem status page
still accessible?
Of course, anything you do to make the problem worse should help
find the failure. Find a failure before trying to fix or replace
anything. Since they did not do that and then replaced modems, what
do you know? Nothing. You don't even know which side of the modem is
problematic because they did not identify a problem before fixing it.
Instead they shotgunned. Therefore nothing useful was learned.
Therefore zero progress has been made. You don't even know what is
good. Everything is still unknown.
If available, get that S/N ratio number that every miminally
acceptable modem (cable, DSL, etc) must report. |
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JM
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
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"w_tom" <w_tom1@usa.net> wrote in message
news:1178235617.893336.88510@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | On May 1, 7:03 pm, "JM" <j...@yahoo.com> wrote:
The activities of the front panel lights don't tell me anything, although
I'm not sure I would know what I'm looking at anyway. The power light is
on, of course, as the "network" light (as the csr called it), indicating
sync with the ISP. Then there two opposing "lightening bolt" lights
(upstream/downstream) that flicker contstantly. They seem to flicker 3
times in unison, and then several times alternating. Then there are
numbered lights for the lan ports connected.
As for network monitoring, I asked about that, and, you're correct, it's
not
something they can do from their local help desk. They simply don't have
the tools.
Your modem is receiving radio waves. Just like any radio, signal
integrity is determined by signal strength, or more important, Signal
to Noise ratio.
Many cable modems for some reason cannot bother to provide that
critical parameter. Without it, then one can only speculate whether
the cable connection is good or bad. As obvious from responses -
modem 'swappers' are only speculating. Wildly replacing modems
without first learning what is wrong. Without that 'signal to noise'
ratio number, then no one can even know which side of the modem is
failing.
That number is displayed by a modem on a status page. But only if
the cable provider had an engineer (not a bean counter) selecting
modems.
Meanwhile, eliminate other reasons for intermittent operation.
Start with something so often forgotten by untrained cable installers
and that can permit household or neighborhood appliances to create
intermittent failures. That cable must drop down to be connected
'less than 10 feet' to the same earthing electrode that is also 'less
than 10 feet' from the breaker box. Make that earthing connection
before cable enters the building. Connected to an earth ground that
every other utility also connects to; using a ground block (as even
sold in Lowes for $2) and 'less than 10 feet' of 12 AWG wire.
Next, where does that cable wire route. What else connects to it?
An alternative test is to route a wire direct to where cable enters
the building with nothing else connected - and change nothing else.
Does system work more reliable? You would know that immediately if
modem provided S/N ratio numbers. Of course this test performed only
because useful information to identify a fault is (apparently) not
available AND your cable 'tech support' has no idea.
Meanwhile, a computer can connect directly to modem's status page -
constantly. That being one way to monitor customer side of the
modem. When outside connection is lost, is that modem status page
still accessible?
Of course, anything you do to make the problem worse should help
find the failure. Find a failure before trying to fix or replace
anything. Since they did not do that and then replaced modems, what
do you know? Nothing. You don't even know which side of the modem is
problematic because they did not identify a problem before fixing it.
Instead they shotgunned. Therefore nothing useful was learned.
Therefore zero progress has been made. You don't even know what is
good. Everything is still unknown.
If available, get that S/N ratio number that every miminally
acceptable modem (cable, DSL, etc) must report.
|
Thank you for your reply.
I cannot access the modem's config, but Comcast (both locally and the level
2 guys in their Denver NOC) insist that their levels (S/N, upstream,
downstream) are all "within spec." And, regarding their support, I've now
spoken to more knowledgeable, more sincere Comcast people, and I'm convinced
for the most part that they are simply as stumped as I am about this whole
deal.
How strange is this: Every morning the internet is down. I can neither
access the lan nor ping the modem's gateway address remotely during this
time. However, as soon as I call Comcast and the support person pulls up
the portal to "take a look," the internet starts working again.
It's the most bizarre thing. It's as if the modem is going to sleep at
night. However, in Comcast's software the modem shows to be online the
entire time.
jm |
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w_tom
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
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Comcast on their end only sees their connection to line amplifiers.
That number only says whether everyone is getting connected. It says
zero about a connection only on your end.
Again, your problem is classic of intermittents which is why a
provider should provide S/N ratios on your modem that you can
monitor. Did the Comcast tech look at signal strength from modem
while standing in the room - or instead only with his measuring
equipment? Modem can report valid and useful number. Their equipment
can only report what modem 'might' see - and not from their equipment
on other side of amplifiers.
Remember a trend among techs. It was never a problem elsewhere;
therefore it is not your problem.
Listed were numerous things to perform. Did they confirm above
listed connections? Your post did not reply to what can create a
significant problem and can only be identified by visual inspection..
And yes, many techs do not appreciate the engineering even in simple
earthing. Often because it did not cause a problem elsewhere;
therefore is not your problem. Did they perform the 'reroute' test?
If not, then why not? Is existing cable good only because they know
it must be good?
Meanwhile, what did you do to verify a problem does not exist on
subscriber side of modem? For example, as your computer pings the
modem constantly, what happens to ping (the numbers) both when
connections are working and not?.
Again, their levels can always look good. But only valid number is
S/N number read directly from your modem. Any only valid number is
both when connection is working and has failed. That number must be
measured on your end of wire and is only useful if read directly by
modem. That number read anywhere else says nothing about your unique
connection.
Your post implies a "we have done everything and nothing is wrong"
attitude. One indication of a bad attitude is no numbers taken when
system is both working AND while failure is ongoing. But again, who
confirmed the earthing connection? I don't see the results of an
inspection so critical that I posted it. Who monitored the S/N
numbers both when modem is working AND when a failure occurs? And who
did same thing using ping from subscriber side - and collected numbers
from that ping both when connections are good and bad? Nothing in
that previous post can be ignored if the problem is to be solved.
Nothing in the last post says to me that technicians are really
looking for a problem.
On May 6, 10:50 am, "JM" <jakem38671omitt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I cannot access the modem's config, but Comcast (both locally and the level
2 guys in their Denver NOC) insist that their levels (S/N, upstream,
downstream) are all "within spec." And, regarding their support, I've now
spoken to more knowledgeable, more sincere Comcast people, and I'm convinced
for the most part that they are simply as stumped as I am about this whole
deal.
How strange is this: Every morning the internet is down. I can neither
access the lan nor ping the modem's gateway address remotely during this
time. However, as soon as I call Comcast and the support person pulls up
the portal to "take a look," the internet starts working again.
It's the most bizarre thing. It's as if the modem is going to sleep at
night. However, in Comcast's software the modem shows to be online the
entire time. |
|
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Warren H
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
w_tom wrote:
| Quote: | Comcast on their end only sees their connection to line amplifiers.
That number only says whether everyone is getting connected. It says
zero about a connection only on your end.
|
Not true. At any given moment, they can tell how many modems are up (and
down) on each node, and which ones they are. This is at the IP level.
| Quote: | Again, your problem is classic of intermittents which is why a
provider should provide S/N ratios on your modem that you can
monitor. Did the Comcast tech look at signal strength from modem
while standing in the room - or instead only with his measuring
equipment? Modem can report valid and useful number. Their equipment
can only report what modem 'might' see - and not from their equipment
on other side of amplifiers.
|
Again, not so. Their monitoring equipment can tell what each modem is
reporting.
| Quote: | Remember a trend among techs. It was never a problem elsewhere;
therefore it is not your problem.
Listed were numerous things to perform. Did they confirm above
listed connections? Your post did not reply to what can create a
significant problem and can only be identified by visual inspection..
And yes, many techs do not appreciate the engineering even in simple
earthing. Often because it did not cause a problem elsewhere;
therefore is not your problem. Did they perform the 'reroute' test?
If not, then why not? Is existing cable good only because they know
it must be good?
Meanwhile, what did you do to verify a problem does not exist on
subscriber side of modem? For example, as your computer pings the
modem constantly, what happens to ping (the numbers) both when
connections are working and not?.
Again, their levels can always look good. But only valid number is
S/N number read directly from your modem. Any only valid number is
both when connection is working and has failed. That number must be
measured on your end of wire and is only useful if read directly by
modem. That number read anywhere else says nothing about your unique
connection.
|
What the agents on the phone see is what the modem is reporting. It is
not a measurement from their end. It is the numbers that the modem
itself reports back.
| Quote: | Your post implies a "we have done everything and nothing is wrong"
attitude. One indication of a bad attitude is no numbers taken when
system is both working AND while failure is ongoing. But again, who
confirmed the earthing connection? I don't see the results of an
inspection so critical that I posted it. Who monitored the S/N
numbers both when modem is working AND when a failure occurs? And who
did same thing using ping from subscriber side - and collected numbers
from that ping both when connections are good and bad? Nothing in
that previous post can be ignored if the problem is to be solved.
Nothing in the last post says to me that technicians are really
looking for a problem.
|
This whole idea that it has to be a grounding problem is quite a
long-shot, and really doesn't fit with the symptoms reported to this
point. However since we're all starting to run out of ideas, and
practical isolation troubleshooting hasn't been very fruitful, he might
as well start checking random long-shots.
I also don't detect any bad attitude on his part. What I see is that he
tried everything he could think of (which is different from everything),
and still has not found the problem, and is therefore trying to
backtrack, and look for things that may have missed. Hardly the "bad
attitude" you're attributing to him. If anything, his attitude is better
than most of the people who post problems here.
--
Warren H.
==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Maintain your landscape with Black & Decker:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker |
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JM
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
| Quote: | Comcast on their end only sees their connection to line amplifiers.
That number only says whether everyone is getting connected. It says
zero about a connection only on your end.
|
I'm no expert on internet/WAN, by any means, but I don't believe you are
correct on this point. Even the local first-tier support people can log
directly into the modem using what I believe they call PSV, peruse the
settings, readings, config, etc. Granted, the information they glean
appears to be rather limited - compared to the NOCs of other providers with
whom I've worked - but I think you are describing Comcast's support as much
more "in the dark" than they actually are.
| Quote: | Again, your problem is classic of intermittents which is why a
provider should provide S/N ratios on your modem that you can
monitor. Did the Comcast tech look at signal strength from modem
while standing in the room - or instead only with his measuring
equipment? Modem can report valid and useful number. Their equipment
can only report what modem 'might' see - and not from their equipment
on other side of amplifiers.
|
I'm not following the reasoning.
| Quote: | Remember a trend among techs. It was never a problem elsewhere;
therefore it is not your problem.
|
I respectfully disagree with this generalization. I have been a technician
for seven years, and I used to operate a team of 13 telecom technicians. In
general, technicians try to solve problems to the best of their ability.
Your characterization is the exception, in my experience.
| Quote: | Listed were numerous things to perform. Did they confirm above
listed connections? Your post did not reply to what can create a
significant problem and can only be identified by visual inspection..
And yes, many techs do not appreciate the engineering even in simple
earthing. Often because it did not cause a problem elsewhere;
therefore is not your problem. Did they perform the 'reroute' test?
If not, then why not? Is existing cable good only because they know
it must be good?
|
Several issues here. First of all, I have not had time to distill your
suggestions and put them into context. Secondly, Comcast is not simpy going
to execute every list of suggestions that might come their way. Third,
while I sincerely appreciate your willingness to help, and I respect your
expertise, I do not believe your earthing theory is valid. The reason is
that cable internet has been functioning perfectly in this location for
years. Only within the past 3 weeks have the problems arisen. While I'm no
electrician, I do understand the basics of electricity and grounding, and I
do not see how this factor bears on an internet connection's reliability
after working so well in the past. However, I may be missing something, and
I welcome your arguments to the contrary.
| Quote: | Meanwhile, what did you do to verify a problem does not exist on
subscriber side of modem? For example, as your computer pings the
modem constantly, what happens to ping (the numbers) both when
connections are working and not?
|
This is a valid question, and there is much to say here when I have a little
more time, but for now I want to ask: What are some examples of problems on
the subscriber side might cause intermittent internet?
| Quote: | Again, their levels can always look good. But only valid number is
S/N number read directly from your modem. Any only valid number is
both when connection is working and has failed. That number must be
measured on your end of wire and is only useful if read directly by
modem. That number read anywhere else says nothing about your unique
connection.
Your post implies a "we have done everything and nothing is wrong"
attitude.
|
To some degree. However, more accurately, the attitude is: "Yes, something
is wrong. We have caught our modem offline a time or two. However, for the
most part our equipment shows your modem to be online. Whatever is causing
the Netgear to stop responding is a result of a problem on your LAN side."
They do not disagree that something is affecting the performance of their
Netgear modem. They just don't think the problem is "their fault."
| Quote: | One indication of a bad attitude is no numbers taken when
system is both working AND while failure is ongoing. But again, who
confirmed the earthing connection? I don't see the results of an
inspection so critical that I posted it. Who monitored the S/N
numbers both when modem is working AND when a failure occurs? And who
did same thing using ping from subscriber side - and collected numbers
from that ping both when connections are good and bad? Nothing in
that previous post can be ignored if the problem is to be solved.
Nothing in the last post says to me that technicians are really
looking for a problem.
|
Without re-reading all my posts on this issue, I'm not sure what details of
included and left out. However, I can say with certainty that everyone
involved is "looking for a problem." They/we may not be looking in the way
you would look, but that doesn't negate the effort.
And please clarify your suggestion regarding recording ping results from
subscriber side when connections are good and bad. Ping what? When the
internet is down, the Netgear [usually but not always] will not respond to a
ping, either from within or from the outside. Perhaps I've missed your
point.
Thank you for your determination to help.
jm
| Quote: |
On May 6, 10:50 am, "JM" <jakem38671omitt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I cannot access the modem's config, but Comcast (both locally and the
level
2 guys in their Denver NOC) insist that their levels (S/N, upstream,
downstream) are all "within spec." And, regarding their support, I've
now
spoken to more knowledgeable, more sincere Comcast people, and I'm
convinced
for the most part that they are simply as stumped as I am about this
whole
deal.
How strange is this: Every morning the internet is down. I can neither
access the lan nor ping the modem's gateway address remotely during this
time. However, as soon as I call Comcast and the support person pulls up
the portal to "take a look," the internet starts working again.
It's the most bizarre thing. It's as if the modem is going to sleep at
night. However, in Comcast's software the modem shows to be online the
entire time.
|
|
|
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JM
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
"Warren H" <wholzem@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nPGdnb9qNML4y6PbnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@comcast.com...
| Quote: | w_tom wrote:
Comcast on their end only sees their connection to line amplifiers.
That number only says whether everyone is getting connected. It says
zero about a connection only on your end.
Not true. At any given moment, they can tell how many modems are up (and
down) on each node, and which ones they are. This is at the IP level.
Again, your problem is classic of intermittents which is why a
provider should provide S/N ratios on your modem that you can
monitor. Did the Comcast tech look at signal strength from modem
while standing in the room - or instead only with his measuring
equipment? Modem can report valid and useful number. Their equipment
can only report what modem 'might' see - and not from their equipment
on other side of amplifiers.
Again, not so. Their monitoring equipment can tell what each modem is
reporting.
Remember a trend among techs. It was never a problem elsewhere;
therefore it is not your problem.
Listed were numerous things to perform. Did they confirm above
listed connections? Your post did not reply to what can create a
significant problem and can only be identified by visual inspection..
And yes, many techs do not appreciate the engineering even in simple
earthing. Often because it did not cause a problem elsewhere;
therefore is not your problem. Did they perform the 'reroute' test?
If not, then why not? Is existing cable good only because they know
it must be good?
Meanwhile, what did you do to verify a problem does not exist on
subscriber side of modem? For example, as your computer pings the
modem constantly, what happens to ping (the numbers) both when
connections are working and not?.
Again, their levels can always look good. But only valid number is
S/N number read directly from your modem. Any only valid number is
both when connection is working and has failed. That number must be
measured on your end of wire and is only useful if read directly by
modem. That number read anywhere else says nothing about your unique
connection.
What the agents on the phone see is what the modem is reporting. It is not
a measurement from their end. It is the numbers that the modem itself
reports back.
Your post implies a "we have done everything and nothing is wrong"
attitude. One indication of a bad attitude is no numbers taken when
system is both working AND while failure is ongoing. But again, who
confirmed the earthing connection? I don't see the results of an
inspection so critical that I posted it. Who monitored the S/N
numbers both when modem is working AND when a failure occurs? And who
did same thing using ping from subscriber side - and collected numbers
from that ping both when connections are good and bad? Nothing in
that previous post can be ignored if the problem is to be solved.
Nothing in the last post says to me that technicians are really
looking for a problem.
This whole idea that it has to be a grounding problem is quite a
long-shot, and really doesn't fit with the symptoms reported to this
point. However since we're all starting to run out of ideas, and practical
isolation troubleshooting hasn't been very fruitful, he might as well
start checking random long-shots.
I also don't detect any bad attitude on his part. What I see is that he
tried everything he could think of (which is different from everything),
and still has not found the problem, and is therefore trying to backtrack,
and look for things that may have missed. Hardly the "bad attitude" you're
attributing to him. If anything, his attitude is better than most of the
people who post problems here.
|
Thank you, Warren, but I do not believe he meant that I have a bad attitude.
My reading of his post indicates he is ascribing that attitude to the
Comcast folks. But, maybe not ; ))
This problem is as perplexing as I've ever seen, and I've been around
networks 5-6 days a week for the past 7 years. At this point, several facts
stand out:
- the internet is down every morning
- when I cannot ping the gateway address remotely, the modem shows online in
Comcast's equipment and their constant ping shows no or very little packet
loss
- when they "poll" the modem with their software, as I'm on the phone with
them, the Netgear wakes up and in mid execution my pings start getting
replies and internet service resumes (this one really makes me shake my
head)
- within the past couple of months, the client's domain has turned up on
some ISPs blocked list as possible spammers
I'm now a bit confused as to what information I've included in what posts,
but I can elaborate on that last fact if you think it might bear on the
problem.
thank you so much for your willingness to assist.
jm |
|
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Warren H
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
"JM" <jake@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zNadnYR9wZOiGqPbnZ2dnUVZ_uiknZ2d@comcast.com...
| Quote: | Thank you, Warren, but I do not believe he meant that I have a bad
attitude. My reading of his post indicates he is ascribing that
attitude to the Comcast folks. But, maybe not ; ))
This problem is as perplexing as I've ever seen, and I've been around
networks 5-6 days a week for the past 7 years. At this point, several
facts stand out:
- the internet is down every morning
- when I cannot ping the gateway address remotely, the modem shows
online in Comcast's equipment and their constant ping shows no or very
little packet loss
- when they "poll" the modem with their software, as I'm on the phone
with them, the Netgear wakes up and in mid execution my pings start
getting replies and internet service resumes (this one really makes me
shake my head)
- within the past couple of months, the client's domain has turned up
on some ISPs blocked list as possible spammers
I'm now a bit confused as to what information I've included in what
posts, but I can elaborate on that last fact if you think it might
bear on the problem.
thank you so much for your willingness to assist.
|
I'm leaning towards going back to the idea of disconnecting their
systems from the network, and just connecting a clean PC, and seeing if
the problem appears under those conditions.
I think you've stumbled upon an interesting thing with the rogue
connection to send e-mail. I wonder if there are other processes
running, too.
Frankly, I'm running out of ideas, but if you can't unequivocally show
that the problem is with Comcast, switching to DSL may just be a futile
move.
--
Warren H.
==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Maintain your landscape with Black & Decker:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
w_tom
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
Important information that I did not see earlier:
| Quote: | When the internet is down, the Netgear [usually but
not always] will not respond to a ping, either from
within or from the outside.
|
IOW the Netgear modem has an IP address from your house and cable
company AND has a completely different IP address from LAN -
subscriber's computer. Subscriber may ping to 192.168.1.1 to 'see'
the modem. You may use 216.123.456.23 to ping same modem from other
side. As I now understand your statement, ping works from both sides
or fails on both sides - simultaneously. Is that correct?
Again, cable techs only do what they have done previously.
Therefore, did they run a wire directly from that Netgear, out the
window, and directly to their cable? Typically they don't do it
because it was never necessary previously. Therefore it is one of the
first things I do. Part of breaking a problem down into parts and
then testing those separated parts.
Same concept applies in this paragraph. If grounding is not
verified visually, then a new machine in a nearby other building or
distant utility load changing early every morning may create current
loops in this building. Why must all incoming utilities connect to
the same ground? Among different things performed by a ground so that
electrical problems in other buildings do not adversely affect your
signals. And since inspection takes only minutes, it is usually one
of the first things we look at - when technicians are totally
confused.
Why is grounding important. Well grounding for safety is understood
by electricians. But that grounding also does things that
electricians typically need not understand. Electrician is a
technician who is carefully trained into how to respond to code. Ask
an electrician how to lower impedance in a wire? He would not know.
He knows what meets code. But can he explain why that ground would
eliminate radio frequency noise from a neighbors new machine? To know
that, he would have to learn things beyond what is in code books.
Comcast is better than most cable companies. For example, Comcast
trained their installers to make that ground connection. But there
are still bad installations out there that can only be found by visual
inspection. Improper grounding may, for example, cause rare voltage
spikes to saturate an RF amp. Does that make sense to you? Does not
matter. Checking grounds are an automatic first inspection when
strange things are occurring.
My experience is that cable company does not read meter's analog
numbers - the decibel numbers. They simply say an IP address responds
- therefore modem is 100% OK. - a GoNogo test. But in a real world,
something can 1) respond when signal is sufficient, 2) not respond
when signal is way too low, AND 3) respond when signal is too low.
This world is ternary. That third state is only detectable from
signal strength numbers - both incoming and outgoing - and read from
modem. Assume numbers to be read by Comcast are intermittently
insufficient. They must read and be able to tell you what outgoing
and especially what incoming signal strength numbers are at any
moment. Are they reading signal strength? Well when signal strength
is too low, then Comcast would not see it. They would only see
numbers when numbers are sufficient. Just one example of why I
posted:
| Quote: | Again, your problem is classic of intermittents which is
why a provider should provide S/N ratios on your modem
that you can monitor.
|
If their answer is 'it is good', then you want to know 'how good'.
Any answer without numbers reports nothing useful. No numbers is
symptomatic of Go-Nogo testing such as ping. Ping would not report
the third of three states listed later.
When your signal strength drops periodically (due to noise bursts that
a missing ground would have eliminated, or due to periodic frequency
shifting, or interference from a neighbors TV, etc), then what will a
remotely located cable tech see? Nothing useful because bad numbers
cannot be read remotely when modem has temporarily failed. An
intermittent failure due to a missing ground, an improperly routed
cable wire inside the building, etc.
Moving on, if Netgear completely stops responding to pings on both
sides and restore on both sides, well, then who is sending a master
reset to the modem? Does he know his test sends a master reset? Yes,
techs do try to solve to the best of their abilities. But how many
know (for example) why proper grounding is essential - what it
accomplishes? Many techs know "When this happens, then we do
this." Therefore many techs don't know what a "we do this" actually
does. Or whether a DOSCIS signal can cause a modem to perform a
master reset.
Every tech does the best he can. But how many are actually familiar
with the DOSCIS standard? IOW they do the best they can which is
"when this happens, then we do that". Why? Not relevant to many
techs which is why, for example, a tech might never understand the
long list of reasons why all incoming wires (AC electric, phone,
cable) must be grounded to a common point. Also would not know why
many electricians also do not know all the reasons for a common
ground.
Moving on again. Modem is down on this morning. What happens when
the modem is power cycled - meaning even power plug is completely
disconnected and reconnected. Does that restore the signal? Does
that permit ping to occur from both sides? Does that restore signal
strength? IOW does modem start working - respond to pings from both
sides when a power-on master reset occurs? OK. Does Comcast reset it
from a remote center. Does power-in reset also do same? (again this
assumes only two possible conditions: modem is both side locked out
and both sides functional.)
What from the subscribers (LAN) side could cause problems? Well I
am limiting this to answers that only explain a crashed modem on both
LAN and Comcast sides simultaneously. For example, a mismatch in
twisted wires for an Ethernet cable could cause problems - but
typically not crash the modem.
Electrically, a voltage must be so high to overwhelm galvanic
isolation inside that ethernet port - such as static electric
discharge from a human. Or noise frequency must be sufficiently
high. I am not fully familiar with the Netgear modem (and could not
find that necessary status page that I believe Comcast intentionally
did not provide). Therefore I am not aware of any simple command that
can lock out ports without some complex human interaction.
Only LAN side event I know of that can lock out the entire modem?
Excessive voltage spike. BTW, same could happen on cable side of
modem because cable wire was not properly grounded.
Doing the same test as should have been done on cable side of
modem. All LAN cables, except one, would be disconnected the night
before. Is modem locked up that morning? Or temporary cables are
routed through doors and hallways. When not using orginal LAN cables,
does modem no longer lock?
And finally, what can you do to make this problem worse? Heat modem
with a hairdryer on high? I will be unable to suggest in this
paragraph because the scene is too far away. Heating modem with a
hairdryer demonstrates the tone of that suggestion. I don't really
believe heat will yield anything useful. But is there something
unique in that room that when exaggerated, would make failure more
frequent? More frequent failures are easier to solve.
On May 6, 9:44 pm, "JM" <j...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | ...
I'm no expert on internet/WAN, by any means, but I don't believe you are
correct on this point. Even the local first-tier support people can log
directly into the modem using what I believe they call PSV, peruse the
settings, readings, config, etc. Granted, the information they glean
appears to be rather limited - compared to the NOCs of other providers with
whom I've worked - but I think you are describing Comcast's support as much
more "in the dark" than they actually are.
...
I respectfully disagree with this generalization. I have been a technician
for seven years, and I used to operate a team of 13 telecom technicians. In
general, technicians try to solve problems to the best of their ability.
Your characterization is the exception, in my experience.
...
Several issues here. First of all, I have not had time to distill your
suggestions and put them into context. Secondly, Comcast is not simpy going
to execute every list of suggestions that might come their way. Third,
while I sincerely appreciate your willingness to help, and I respect your
expertise, I do not believe your earthing theory is valid. The reason is
that cable internet has been functioning perfectly in this location for
years. Only within the past 3 weeks have the problems arisen. While I'm no
electrician, I do understand the basics of electricity and grounding, and I
do not see how this factor bears on an internet connection's reliability
after working so well in the past. However, I may be missing something, and
I welcome your arguments to the contrary.
...
This is a valid question, and there is much to say here when I have a little
more time, but for now I want to ask: What are some examples of
problems on the subscriber side might cause intermittent internet?
...
And please clarify your suggestion regarding recording ping results from
subscriber side when connections are good and bad. Ping what? When the
internet is down, the Netgear [usually but not always] will not respond to a
ping, either from within or from the outside. Perhaps I've missed your
point.
Thank you for your determination to help. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
$Bill
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
Warren H wrote:
| Quote: |
I'm leaning towards going back to the idea of disconnecting their
systems from the network, and just connecting a clean PC, and seeing if
the problem appears under those conditions.
|
Or just disconnect everything since he has his Linksys router in there now
and that should suffice for the local LAN side to take pings and such.
| Quote: | I think you've stumbled upon an interesting thing with the rogue
connection to send e-mail. I wonder if there are other processes
running, too.
Frankly, I'm running out of ideas, but if you can't unequivocally show
that the problem is with Comcast, switching to DSL may just be a futile
move.
|
Way too early for that I would think.
What happens late/early in the morning that could be a factor ? Cold,
humidity maybe ?
What time were these suspicious emails going out and what time do the
failures occur ? Why would data content bother a modem/router ?
Has any of the infrastructure been swapped out yet besides the modem/router
(wiring, ground block, splitter, etc) ? What are all the components currently
in the path to the pole ?
Etc. |
|
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|
|
JM
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
"$Bill" <news@SPAMOLAtodbe.com> wrote in message
news:463ef6e3$0$27094$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
| Quote: | Warren H wrote:
I'm leaning towards going back to the idea of disconnecting their systems
from the network, and just connecting a clean PC, and seeing if the
problem appears under those conditions.
Or just disconnect everything since he has his Linksys router in there now
and that should suffice for the local LAN side to take pings and such.
|
Yes, I was planning on doing that tonight, but I didn't make it down. My
only reservation about this is that if I turn off the LAN equipment (except
for the Linksys) and the modem does not go down, what does that prove? It
would seem to support Comcast's assertion that the problem is on the
client's side, but, on the other hand, is it defensible that a modem should
only work when no traffic is going through it?
| Quote: | I think you've stumbled upon an interesting thing with the rogue
connection to send e-mail. I wonder if there are other processes running,
too.
Frankly, I'm running out of ideas, but if you can't unequivocally show
that the problem is with Comcast, switching to DSL may just be a futile
move.
Way too early for that I would think.
|
With respect, it's not "way too early" for the client who has been dealing
with no internet access every morning for 3 weeks. They are running out of
patience. And a significant challenge is that much troubleshooting is
required, but I cannot work on it every day, and for the most part I'm all
they've got.
| Quote: | What happens late/early in the morning that could be a factor ? Cold,
humidity maybe ?
|
Perhaps, but the fact remains that this internet connection has been working
fine for years.
| Quote: | What time were these suspicious emails going out and what time do the
failures occur ?
|
I can find no definite relationship.
| Quote: | Why would data content bother a modem/router ?
|
The heart of the question, as far as I'm concerned. Comcast has suggested
that the activities of our mail server is causing the problems. And I
continue to repeat your question: What bearing does content and traffic in
general have on the performance (or lack thereof) of a cable modem????
jm |
|
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|
|
Fix your Windows Problems - FAST.
FREE Safe Scan Registry Check. Locate & Fix Errors in Minutes!
|
|
Warren H
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
JM wrote:
| Quote: |
The heart of the question, as far as I'm concerned. Comcast has
suggested that the activities of our mail server is causing the
problems. And I continue to repeat your question: What bearing does
content and traffic in general have on the performance (or lack
thereof) of a cable modem????
|
Have you checked for any snmp packets headed to the modem?
Most modems can also be controlled through an http interface showing to
the LAN side.
Can you get to any of the modem logs at 192.168.100.1 ? How about
192.168.1.1 ?
If we could see the modem logs, we could see why it's going down. Or for
that matter, confirm that it's the modem that's going down.
Just to review, and make sure we've been talking about all the same
things, is this how things are set-up:
Various Computers on the LAN
|
V
The "Server" (which is acting as a router for your LAN, and is assigned
your public static IP)
|
V
The Netgear, which includes a cable modem, and has routing capabilities
that are turned off.
|
V
The CMTS at the headend, which has the gateway IP address for the static
IP used by the server)
|
V
The rest of the world.
Numerous times you've mentioned being unable to ping the gateway. Are
you talking about the CMTS at the headend, or some other device. And
where are you pinging it from? The client's side of the modem, or where
you are in the outside world?
You've also mentioned pinging the modem's IP. A cable modem has a class
A private range IP address facing the HFC side that the provider can use
to manage the modem. That 10.x.x.x address is only going to be
accessible from within the Comcast network. The modem also has an
internal http server (to serve pages with logs and status information)
that's accessible only from the LAN side. It has a class C private range
IP address (192.168.100.1). All other traffic is bridged through the
modem.
If the routing capabilities of the modem are turned off, then all you've
got left is the switch that's between the modem part of the Netgear, and
the Ethernet port. So if the routing capabilities are turned-off,
there's no IP address used for this side of the Netgear.
All in all, at this point the modem logs would probably be the most
useful tool we could use.
--
Warren H.
==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Maintain your landscape with Black & Decker:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker
--
Warren H.
==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Maintain your landscape with Black & Decker:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JM
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
| Quote: |
Have you checked for any snmp packets headed to the modem?
|
not sure how to look for that.
| Quote: | Most modems can also be controlled through an http interface showing to
the LAN side.
Can you get to any of the modem logs at 192.168.100.1 ? How about
192.168.1.1 ?
|
The modem is not set up this way. There are two IP addresses associated
with our account: a "gateway" address, which is a Class B ISP address
allocated to the cable modem (in this case a Netgear); and a static IP
address, a Class B ISP address that is allocated for the customer premise
equipment. With RoadRunner/Comcast standard business accounts, the customer
gets one public routable "static" address. So, faik, the only ip address
the Netgear "knows" is the gateway address.
| Quote: | If we could see the modem logs, we could see why it's going down. Or for
that matter, confirm that it's the modem that's going down.
|
That's the thing: Although I have not actually seen the modem logs, Comcast
support says the modem logs (historical data) is not reflecting the outages.
In fact, when I cannot ping the gateway address (and the internet service is
not functioning), the Netgear will show to be "on line." They can be in it,
which they are, because they reset it - then the internet starts working
again.
| Quote: | Just to review, and make sure we've been talking about all the same
things, is this how things are set-up:
Various Computers on the LAN
|
V
The "Server" (which is acting as a router for your LAN, and is assigned
your public static IP)
|
V
The Netgear, which includes a cable modem, and has routing capabilities
that are turned off.
|
V
The CMTS at the headend, which has the gateway IP address for the static
IP used by the server)
|
V
The rest of the world.
|
That was the config until last Tuesday, when I placed a Linksys "behind" the
Netgear. So, from the client side -> out, it looks like this:
Various computers on the LAN
(how did you do that straight up-and-down line ????)
V
Network switch
V
Linksys
V
Netgear cable modem/router
V
Comcast headend equipment
| Quote: | Numerous times you've mentioned being unable to ping the gateway. Are you
talking about the CMTS at the headend, or some other device. And where are
you pinging it from? The client's side of the modem, or where you are in
the outside world?
|
When I say "ping the gateway," I'm talking about the gateway IP address
Comcast assigns to the Netgear, i.e, 24.xx.xx.30 (the static IP, which now
is assigned to the Linksys WAN port, is 24.xx.xx.31). There is another IP
address used by Comcast to access the Netgear (I belive it's a 73.xx.xx.xx
address), but they do not refer to it.
I am pinging from my office, which is about 20 miles away. A typical series
of events goes like this: approx 8:15 a.m., someone from the firm (my
client) calls and says the internet is down and can't send/receive email. I
immediately try two things from either my laptop or my main work machine,
both running Windows XP Pro: log into the Linksys at the client site using
a web browser (I have remote GUI mgmt enabled, which I access via static IP
address:port I've chosen); and, ping the Netgear using the gateway address.
Both attempts fail. Then, we do one two things: either have someone on
site to power recycle the Netgear, or (much more commonly) I will call
Comcast and tell them the problem has returned.
It's at this point that things always get sideways. Invariably, Comcast
pulls up the client info and informs me that their "constant ping test"
shows no failure, no packet loss, and the "historical data" shows the
Netgear to have been online for days, with perhaps a minute or two
"interruption" here and there. I ask them to explain to me why I cannot
ping the gateway address, and depending on when I call, to whom I speak, and
the specifics of the incident, I will get various replies. The general
stance is that they do not know why. It must be a problem on our end.
After all, they changed out the Netgear twice, their monitoring reveals no
problems, and all the critical measurements are within spec.
During business hours I get the local support team (the former Time Warner
RoadRunner group). The two techs I've spoken to the most "explain" the
problem in slightly different terms, but the general stance is the same:
Since we cannot identify a problem on our end, it MUST be on your end.
And here's the most disheartening part: Even if we eliminate every
possibility from the client side, Comcast still will not have a solution.
| Quote: | You've also mentioned pinging the modem's IP. A cable modem has a class A
private range IP address facing the HFC side that the provider can use to
manage the modem. That 10.x.x.x address is only going to be accessible
from within the Comcast network. The modem also has an internal http
server (to serve pages with logs and status information) that's accessible
only from the LAN side. It has a class C private range IP address
(192.168.100.1). All other traffic is bridged through the modem.
|
I did not realize that a modem configured for static IP/bridge mode still
retains a Class C private address. I will try that later from within the
client's network.
| Quote: | If the routing capabilities of the modem are turned off, then all you've
got left is the switch that's between the modem part of the Netgear, and
the Ethernet port. So if the routing capabilities are turned-off, there's
no IP address used for this side of the Netgear.
|
Ah, okay, that's what I was going to ask: Where does that private IP come
from?
| Quote: | All in all, at this point the modem logs would probably be the most useful
tool we could use.
|
I asked about this today, but the tech said it wouldn't do any good.
According to him it just shows the modem being online.
I'm an extremely persistent person - some would say obsessive. But I'm
growing weary with this thing.
jm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Warren H
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
JM wrote:
| Quote: | The modem is not set up this way. There are two IP addresses
associated with our account: a "gateway" address, which is a Class B
ISP address allocated to the cable modem (in this case a Netgear); and
a static IP address, a Class B ISP address that is allocated for the
customer premise equipment. With RoadRunner/Comcast standard business
accounts, the customer gets one public routable "static" address. So,
faik, the only ip address the Netgear "knows" is the gateway address.
If we could see the modem logs, we could see why it's going down. Or
for that matter, confirm that it's the modem that's going down.
That's the thing: Although I have not actually seen the modem logs,
Comcast support says the modem logs (historical data) is not
reflecting the outages. In fact, when I cannot ping the gateway
address (and the internet service is not functioning), the Netgear
will show to be "on line." They can be in it, which they are, because
they reset it - then the internet starts working again.
|
Not sure why you can't just look at the logs on the modem. Comcast
usually doesn't lock-out the customer from this function of the modem.
| Quote: | Just to review, and make sure we've been talking about all the same
things, is this how things are set-up:
Various Computers on the LAN
|
V
The "Server" (which is acting as a router for your LAN, and is
assigned your public static IP)
|
V
The Netgear, which includes a cable modem, and has routing
capabilities that are turned off.
|
V
The CMTS at the headend, which has the gateway IP address for the
static IP used by the server)
|
V
The rest of the world.
That was the config until last Tuesday, when I placed a Linksys
"behind" the Netgear. So, from the client side -> out, it looks like
this:
Various computers on the LAN
(how did you do that straight up-and-down line ????)
V
Network switch
V
Linksys
V
Netgear cable modem/router
V
Comcast headend equipment
Numerous times you've mentioned being unable to ping the gateway. Are
you talking about the CMTS at the headend, or some other device. And
where are you pinging it from? The client's side of the modem, or
where you are in the outside world?
When I say "ping the gateway," I'm talking about the gateway IP
address Comcast assigns to the Netgear, i.e, 24.xx.xx.30 (the static
IP, which now is assigned to the Linksys WAN port, is 24.xx.xx.31).
There is another IP address used by Comcast to access the Netgear (I
belive it's a 73.xx.xx.xx address), but they do not refer to it.
|
If the Netgear has a public IP address, it must be assigned to the
router portion of the equipment. And if that's the case, it's not
operating as a bridge or a switch, it's actually operating as a router.
And if it's operating as a router, the nature of the traffic coming from
the LAN can affect how it operates, as the metaphoric envelopes nested
in the packets are opened, as oposed to just passing the packet through
like in a bridge.
| Quote: | I am pinging from my office, which is about 20 miles away. A typical
series of events goes like this: approx 8:15 a.m., someone from the
firm (my client) calls and says the internet is down and can't
send/receive email. I immediately try two things from either my
laptop or my main work machine, both running Windows XP Pro: log into
the Linksys at the client site using a web browser (I have remote GUI
mgmt enabled, which I access via static IP address:port I've chosen);
and, ping the Netgear using the gateway address. Both attempts fail.
Then, we do one two things: either have someone on site to power
recycle the Netgear, or (much more commonly) I will call Comcast and
tell them the problem has returned.
It's at this point that things always get sideways. Invariably,
Comcast pulls up the client info and informs me that their "constant
ping test" shows no failure, no packet loss, and the "historical data"
shows the Netgear to have been online for days, with perhaps a minute
or two "interruption" here and there. I ask them to explain to me why
I cannot ping the gateway address, and depending on when I call, to
whom I speak, and the specifics of the incident, I will get various
replies. The general stance is that they do not know why. It must be
a problem on our end. After all, they changed out the Netgear twice,
their monitoring reveals no problems, and all the critical
measurements are within spec.
|
Okay. Now this is starting to make a little more sense.
The *cable modem* in the Netgear has probably been operating perfectly.
(Or as close to perfectly as practical.) It's not the problem. The
problem is happening in the *router* part of the Netgear. Although this
part may be in the same physical box as the cable modem, it's not
normally something that is monitored on an HFC cable modem system.
| Quote: | During business hours I get the local support team (the former Time
Warner RoadRunner group). The two techs I've spoken to the most
"explain" the problem in slightly different terms, but the general
stance is the same: Since we cannot identify a problem on our end, it
MUST be on your end.
And here's the most disheartening part: Even if we eliminate every
possibility from the client side, Comcast still will not have a
solution.
You've also mentioned pinging the modem's IP. A cable modem has a
class A private range IP address facing the HFC side that the
provider can use to manage the modem. That 10.x.x.x address is only
going to be accessible from within the Comcast network. The modem
also has an internal http server (to serve pages with logs and status
information) that's accessible only from the LAN side. It has a class
C private range IP address (192.168.100.1). All other traffic is
bridged through the modem.
I did not realize that a modem configured for static IP/bridge mode
still retains a Class C private address. I will try that later from
within the client's network.
|
The cable modem part of the equipment is *always* a bridge. It's the
router included in the same box that can be configured differently. But
if it has a public IP address, it's not operating as a bridge. It's
operating as a router.
| Quote: | If the routing capabilities of the modem are turned off, then all
you've got left is the switch that's between the modem part of the
Netgear, and the Ethernet port. So if the routing capabilities are
turned-off, there's no IP address used for this side of the Netgear.
Ah, okay, that's what I was going to ask: Where does that private IP
come from?
|
There are two private range IP addresses associated with most DOCSIS
cable modems. The class A is assigned to the side facing the HFC
network, and is used by the provider to manage the modem. The class C
address, usually 192.168.100.1, faces the Ethernet side. With the right
firmware, it could also be used to access the modem to manage it, but
rarely - very rarely - is that ever enabled. Typically the firmware will
allow you to access status reports and logs which will be served via
http.
| Quote: | All in all, at this point the modem logs would probably be the most
useful tool we could use.
I asked about this today, but the tech said it wouldn't do any good.
According to him it just shows the modem being online.
|
I tend to believe that now.
It sounds like the problem is in the *router* part of your combination
cable modem-router. And it may not be so much a problem with the router
not acting as intended, but a problem with what's being sent to it from
the LAN. Something is locking-up the router part of the Netgear, not the
cable modem part of the Netgear.
I know you aren't going to have any access to manage the cable modem
part of the Netgear, but how much access do you have to manage the
router portion of the Netgear?
Since you've had three different Netgears, and they all act the same,
replacing the hardware again probably won't make a difference. There may
be a setting that can be changed that will change the way the router
acts, but then the question is why was that setting configured the way
it is, and not the way that resolves the problem. What was it designed
to do?
So even though there may be a setting that can be changed in the Netgear
router, that may not be the correct fix. The correct fix may be to find
out what it is that is being sent to the router to cause it to crash.
This differs from the question of what's being sent to the modem to
cause it to crash. Nothing should cause a simple bridge to crash. But
we're not talking about the simple bridge of the modem crashing. It
seems that the modem is working correctly. It's the more complex router,
which is operating at a higher level on the OSI model that's crashing,
and it's not unheard of for a router to crash in this way. It's not just
passing the packets. It's partially opening them.
So what's in those packets that's causing the *router* (not the modem)
to crash?
That's my diagnosis. But in this case, the treatment goes beyond my
level of training.
Would going to DSL solve the problem? Depends on what kind of equipment
they give you. If they give you a combo modem/router, and that router
has the same hardware or the same settings, it probably won't solve the
problem. But it's also possible that it could remain a problem with
different routers, too because switching the modem type, and the network
it's attached to is just changing things on the wrong side of where the
problem is.
--
Warren H.
==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Maintain your landscape with Black & Decker:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker |
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Warren H
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
$Bill wrote:
| Quote: |
I wonder if Netgear has a modem similar to the one he has but separate
from the router ? If so, maybe he could swap the modem-router for
just
a modem and use his Linksys for the router and see if there's a
change.
What's the model number of this Netgear m-r ? I'm guessing it would
have to be a CG814CPR or similar.
I'm still having problem with that stmt a while back that says they
have
to use this specific modem-router and nothing else could possibly be
configured (or some such). There's got to be similar but separate hdw
that they can configure - like a separate Motorola/Linksys modem with
a
separate Linksys/Netgear router.
|
For residential service, Comcast will allow you to use your own modem.
It doesn't work that way for business service. I'm sure that's mostly a
business, not a technical decision on their part, but there could be
some technical reason that I'm just not aware of.
So a different modem (or modem/router) is a step that Comcast has to be
willing to take in this case.
--
Warren H.
==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Maintain your landscape with Black & Decker:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
$Bill
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: Re: Help needed with intermittent internet |
|
|
Warren H wrote:
| Quote: |
So even though there may be a setting that can be changed in the Netgear
router, that may not be the correct fix. The correct fix may be to find
out what it is that is being sent to the router to cause it to crash.
This differs from the question of what's being sent to the modem to
cause it to crash. Nothing should cause a simple bridge to crash. But
we're not talking about the simple bridge of the modem crashing. It
seems that the modem is working correctly. It's the more complex router,
which is operating at a higher level on the OSI model that's crashing,
and it's not unheard of for a router to crash in this way. It's not just
passing the packets. It's partially opening them.
So what's in those packets that's causing the *router* (not the modem)
to crash?
That's my diagnosis. But in this case, the treatment goes beyond my
level of training.
Would going to DSL solve the problem? Depends on what kind of equipment
they give you. If they give you a combo modem/router, and that router
has the same hardware or the same settings, it probably won't solve the
problem. But it's also possible that it could remain a problem with
different routers, too because switching the modem type, and the network
it's attached to is just changing things on the wrong side of where the
problem is.
|
I wonder if Netgear has a modem similar to the one he has but separate
from the router ? If so, maybe he could swap the modem-router for just
a modem and use his Linksys for the router and see if there's a change.
What's the model number of this Netgear m-r ? I'm guessing it would
have to be a CG814CPR or similar.
I'm still having problem with that stmt a while back that says they have
to use this specific modem-router and nothing else could possibly be
configured (or some such). There's got to be similar but separate hdw
that they can configure - like a separate Motorola/Linksys modem with a
separate Linksys/Netgear router. |
|
| Back to top |
|
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