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CSharpner
Guest
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 Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:01 am Post subject: Charter hijacks browser |
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This may have negative ramifications for Charter as news of this
unethical activity gets out:
As of yesterday (as best I can determine), Charter.net cable internet
services is now hijacking bad DNS queries. In other words, if you
mistype a domain name and end up typing one that doesn't exist,
normally you'd get an error message. Your own browser has settings
where you can choose to be redirected to a search page of your choice,
or none at all, if that is your choice.
Charter took that choice away. Now, all bad queries go to here:
http://ww11.charter.net/search
It doesn't matter what your browser settings are. This is because
your browser depends on an error code coming back from the Domain Name
Servers (DNS), at which point your browser would either display an
error message or redirect you to your chosen search page. Now, since
Charter's DNS servers never return errors and instead respond with
Charter's search page, your browser never receives the proper error
code and therefore has no trigger to take you to your chosen search
page.
This presents further problems as many software applications (off the
shelf and custom, and enterprise software) depend on the internet
working the same everywhere. Many applications depend on this error
code. They will all fail to work as designed because Charter wants to
make advertising revenue.
This unethical activity was attempted by Verisign back in 2003 (but in
their case, it effected the ENTIRE internet, not just customers of a
single ISP). You can get more information on the Verisign fiasco here
for context:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=verisign+hijacks+browser |
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$Bill
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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CSharpner wrote:
| Quote: | This may have negative ramifications for Charter as news of this
unethical activity gets out:
.... |
Have you tried using another open DNS server ? Does that solve the problem ? |
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CSharpner
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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On Apr 27, 11:31 pm, "$Bill" <n...@SPAMOLAtodbe.com> wrote:
| Quote: | CSharpner wrote:
This may have negative ramifications for Charter as news of this
unethical activity gets out:
...
Have you tried using another open DNS server ? Does that solve the problem ?
|
Yes, and it does.
Primary 4.2.2.2
Secondary 4.2.2.3 |
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JHG
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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Did read the "about this page" page? You can Opt-Out and get the expected
error code. i.e. 404
"CSharpner" <csharpner@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177740745.359944.266150@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | On Apr 27, 11:31 pm, "$Bill" <n...@SPAMOLAtodbe.com> wrote:
CSharpner wrote:
This may have negative ramifications for Charter as news of this
unethical activity gets out:
...
Have you tried using another open DNS server ? Does that solve the
problem ?
Yes, and it does.
Primary 4.2.2.2
Secondary 4.2.2.3
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Warren H
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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JHG wrote:
| Quote: | Did read the "about this page" page? You can Opt-Out and get the
expected error code. i.e. 404
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Yes, but that requires a cookie. Browsers use cookies, but not all
software that depend on DNS use cookies.
It should work according to expected standards by default. Other ways of
things working should be opt-in, not opt-out, especially if the opt-out
doesn't do the job it's supposed to. |
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Agent_C
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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On 27 Apr 2007 20:01:00 -0700, CSharpner <csharpner@gmail.com> wrote:
This isn't exactly a grievous crime. There's a simple opt-out:
http://ww11.charter.net/options |
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CSharpner
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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On Apr 28, 7:47 am, Agent_C <Agent-C-hates-s...@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Their opt out is a farce on many levels and is NOT simple:
1. It's temporary (60 or 90 days, then you're forced back in).
2. It installs a cookie for your browser (I shouldn't have to install
something to NOT get a service).
3. You must install the stupid cookie on every browser you use (I
currently use both IE and FireFox).
4. You must install it on each browser on each computer (I have two
computers, two browsers each, so I'd have to "opt-out" 4 times.
5. I'd have to opt out a minimum of 16 times a year (if it expires
after 90 days) up to 24 times a year (if it expires in 60 days).
6. Additionally, I'd have to "opt-out" again for each virtual machine
I use (I use many, because I'm a software developer).
7. Each time I use the snapshot feature in my VMs, I'd have to opt-
out again for each browser in my VM.
8. Any time I have to reinstall Windows, I'd have to re-"opt-out" on
both browsers.
9. Any time settngs get messed up, I'd have to re-opt-out.
10. A common security practice is to delete your cookies, which I do
often in IE, which requires yet another op-out.
11. In FireFox, one of my favorite and most used features is to
accept cookies only for the current session, at which point they'll be
deleted when the session ends. Can't do that anymore or I'd have to
opt-out every time I browse... not feasible.
12. They never asked me if I wanted to "opt-in".
13. They never informed me that they were doing this.
14. Other internet enabled software (All other software that is NOT a
browser) that doesn't use cookies, cannot "opt-out".
15. They should NOT be changing the default behavior of the Internet.
There is a simple solution to this: They should just stop hijacking.
IE7 and FireFox both have the ability to set a default search page.
IF WE WANTED CHARTER AS OUR DEFAULT, WE'D SET IT OURSELVES!!!! What
they've done is overridden what we've ALREADY CHOSEN! If I wrote
software that did this to your machine, without asking, you'd call it
"browser hijacking", "adware", and "malware". If I got caught, I'd
likely go to jail. Why should it be any different for Charter??
As you can see, it's a lot more complicated and a lot more cumbersome
than a "simple opt-out". |
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Warren H
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:37 am Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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CSharpner wrote:
| Quote: | Their opt out is a farce on many levels and is NOT simple:
1. It's temporary (60 or 90 days, then you're forced back in).
2. It installs a cookie for your browser (I shouldn't have to install
something to NOT get a service).
3. You must install the stupid cookie on every browser you use (I
currently use both IE and FireFox).
4. You must install it on each browser on each computer (I have two
computers, two browsers each, so I'd have to "opt-out" 4 times.
5. I'd have to opt out a minimum of 16 times a year (if it expires
after 90 days) up to 24 times a year (if it expires in 60 days).
6. Additionally, I'd have to "opt-out" again for each virtual machine
I use (I use many, because I'm a software developer).
7. Each time I use the snapshot feature in my VMs, I'd have to opt-
out again for each browser in my VM.
8. Any time I have to reinstall Windows, I'd have to re-"opt-out" on
both browsers.
9. Any time settngs get messed up, I'd have to re-opt-out.
10. A common security practice is to delete your cookies, which I do
often in IE, which requires yet another op-out.
11. In FireFox, one of my favorite and most used features is to
accept cookies only for the current session, at which point they'll be
deleted when the session ends. Can't do that anymore or I'd have to
opt-out every time I browse... not feasible.
12. They never asked me if I wanted to "opt-in".
13. They never informed me that they were doing this.
14. Other internet enabled software (All other software that is NOT a
browser) that doesn't use cookies, cannot "opt-out".
15. They should NOT be changing the default behavior of the Internet.
There is a simple solution to this: They should just stop hijacking.
IE7 and FireFox both have the ability to set a default search page.
IF WE WANTED CHARTER AS OUR DEFAULT, WE'D SET IT OURSELVES!!!! What
they've done is overridden what we've ALREADY CHOSEN! If I wrote
software that did this to your machine, without asking, you'd call it
"browser hijacking", "adware", and "malware". If I got caught, I'd
likely go to jail. Why should it be any different for Charter??
As you can see, it's a lot more complicated and a lot more cumbersome
than a "simple opt-out".
|
I'd bet good money (as opposed to that stuff I normally use) that the
terms of service are worded in a way that allows them to do this. But
just because they can, doesn't mean they should.
As you've said, not all software that requires DNS resolution uses
cookies. Getting a webpage that wasn't requested instead of the correct
information or an error essentially breaks that software.
Ideally, if they really have their hearts set on doing this, it should
be an opt-in, not an opt-out. But if they just don't have enough respect
for their customers to make it opt-in, then they should have an opt-out
process that is both permanent, and works for all Internet-enabled
software, not just cookie-enabled browsers.
As implemented, it very squarely falls into the category of things they
can do, but shouldn't do.
--
Warren H.
==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Maintain your landscape with Black & Decker:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker |
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CSharpner
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
|
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On Apr 28, 4:40 pm, "Warren H" <whol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | CSharpnerwrote:
Their opt out is a farce on many levels and is NOT simple:
1. It's temporary (60 or 90 days, then you're forced back in).
2. It installs a cookie for your browser (I shouldn't have to install
something to NOT get a service).
3. You must install the stupid cookie on every browser you use (I
currently use both IE and FireFox).
4. You must install it on each browser on each computer (I have two
computers, two browsers each, so I'd have to "opt-out" 4 times.
5. I'd have to opt out a minimum of 16 times a year (if it expires
after 90 days) up to 24 times a year (if it expires in 60 days).
6. Additionally, I'd have to "opt-out" again for each virtual machine
I use (I use many, because I'm a software developer).
7. Each time I use the snapshot feature in my VMs, I'd have to opt-
out again for each browser in my VM.
8. Any time I have to reinstall Windows, I'd have to re-"opt-out" on
both browsers.
9. Any time settngs get messed up, I'd have to re-opt-out.
10. A common security practice is to delete your cookies, which I do
often in IE, which requires yet another op-out.
11. In FireFox, one of my favorite and most used features is to
accept cookies only for the current session, at which point they'll be
deleted when the session ends. Can't do that anymore or I'd have to
opt-out every time I browse... not feasible.
12. They never asked me if I wanted to "opt-in".
13. They never informed me that they were doing this.
14. Other internet enabled software (All other software that is NOT a
browser) that doesn't use cookies, cannot "opt-out".
15. They should NOT be changing the default behavior of the Internet.
There is a simple solution to this: They should just stop hijacking.
IE7 and FireFox both have the ability to set a default search page.
IF WE WANTED CHARTER AS OUR DEFAULT, WE'D SET IT OURSELVES!!!! What
they've done is overridden what we've ALREADY CHOSEN! If I wrote
software that did this to your machine, without asking, you'd call it
"browser hijacking", "adware", and "malware". If I got caught, I'd
likely go to jail. Why should it be any different for Charter??
As you can see, it's a lot more complicated and a lot more cumbersome
than a "simple opt-out".
I'd bet good money (as opposed to that stuff I normally use) that the
terms of service are worded in a way that allows them to do this. But
just because they can, doesn't mean they should.
As you've said, not all software that requires DNS resolution uses
cookies. Getting a webpage that wasn't requested instead of the correct
information or an error essentially breaks that software.
Ideally, if they really have their hearts set on doing this, it should
be an opt-in, not an opt-out. But if they just don't have enough respect
for their customers to make it opt-in, then they should have an opt-out
process that is both permanent, and works for all Internet-enabled
software, not just cookie-enabled browsers.
As implemented, it very squarely falls into the category of things they
can do, but shouldn't do.
--
Warren H.
==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Maintain your landscape with Black & Decker:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
|
Yep. Correct on all points (though, I haven't checked the agreement,
but I'm sure it probably states something like that). Since I've
posted that, a new high speed internet company has come to town which
will be providing fiber to the door. I'll be able to get 15mb/s (as
opposed to Charter's 3mb... well, OK, charter JUST NOW upped to 4mb)
for the same price (or less) than I'm paying charter. I'll also be
able to dump Charter for my cable TV as well as this company will be
offering HDTV as well. Unbelievably good timing!! I'll be sure to
let charter know why I'm dumping them. Up until now, I haven't had a
choice. |
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Agent_C
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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On 4 May 2007 09:46:52 -0700, CSharpner <csharpner@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Since I've
posted that, a new high speed internet company has come to town which
will be providing fiber to the door. I'll be able to get 15mb/s (as
opposed to Charter's 3mb...
|
I sure hope FIOS is the panacea everybody seems to think it is/will
be.
Fiber to the home may have dramatically greater bandwidth, but it
doesn't make Verizon immune from service outages, connectivity
problems, network latency and sub par support.
I recall what a complete disaster DSL was when they first started to
roll it out; and to this day, their network slows down at peak hours
in ways my Roadrunner connection never has.
I'm staying tuned...
A_C |
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$Bill
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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CSharpner wrote:
| Quote: |
Since I've
posted that, a new high speed internet company has come to town which
will be providing fiber to the door. I'll be able to get 15mb/s (as
opposed to Charter's 3mb... well, OK, charter JUST NOW upped to 4mb)
for the same price (or less) than I'm paying charter.
|
What outfit is that so I can check their website out and see where
else they're going ? |
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clifto
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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CSharpner wrote:
| Quote: | Yep. Correct on all points (though, I haven't checked the agreement,
but I'm sure it probably states something like that). Since I've
posted that, a new high speed internet company has come to town which
will be providing fiber to the door. I'll be able to get 15mb/s (as
opposed to Charter's 3mb...
|
Must be nice. Where are you?
--
Postulate a God who's so smart He designed things we won't discover for the
next ten years, but who's so incredibly stupid He couldn't think up the
theory of evolution. Duhhhhhhhh. "***, Darwin, what a great idea!" |
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CSharpner
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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On May 4, 9:21 pm, "$Bill" <n...@SPAMOLAtodbe.com> wrote:
| Quote: | CSharpnerwrote:
Since I've
posted that, a new high speed internet company has come to town which
will be providing fiber to the door. I'll be able to get 15mb/s (as
opposed to Charter's 3mb... well, OK, charter JUST NOW upped to 4mb)
for the same price (or less) than I'm paying charter.
What outfit is that so I can check their website out and see where
else they're going ?
|
It's TDS.
www.TdsTelecom.com
They haven't rolled the fiber in my neighborhood yet. If anyone else
gets this service, let us know:
1. Does it live up to the download speed claims of 15mb/s?
2. Does it live up to the upload speed claims of 2mb/s?
3. Do they do the unethical browser hijacking too??
4. Reliability?
5. Hardware -- What do you get? Do you have to pay monthly for the
HW? How much?
6. Do you use any VOIP phone service (like Lingo.com or Vonage.com)?
Does it work?
7. Did you get the TV combo? Is the video quality any good? Are all
channels digital?
8. If you got the TV combo, what about hardware? What'd you get and
how much do you pay monthly for the hardware (not counting the service
price itself).
For the record, their phone service (which is VOIP, as I understand
it) is way more expensive than either Lingo.com or Vonage.com. I'll
be sticking with Lingo.com and ditch TDS's phone service.
If I'm the first one here to get this, I'll report back on all of
these. I just don't know when they'll be rolling out fiber in my
neighborhood. I'll be their first customer when they do (assuming no
one here has really bad stuff to report about them). |
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CSharpner
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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On May 5, 2:10 pm, clifto <cli...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | CSharpnerwrote:
Yep. Correct on all points (though, I haven't checked the agreement,
but I'm sure it probably states something like that). Since I've
posted that, a new high speed internet company has come to town which
will be providing fiber to the door. I'll be able to get 15mb/s (as
opposed to Charter's 3mb...
Must be nice. Where are you?
--
Postulate a God who's so smart He designed things we won't discover for the
next ten years, but who's so incredibly stupid He couldn't think up the
theory of evolution. Duhhhhhhhh. "***, Darwin, what a great idea!"
|
Knoxville, TN. |
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$Bill
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Charter hijacks browser |
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CSharpner wrote:
| Quote: | On May 4, 9:21 pm, "$Bill" <n...@SPAMOLAtodbe.com> wrote:
CSharpnerwrote:
Since I've
posted that, a new high speed internet company has come to town which
will be providing fiber to the door. I'll be able to get 15mb/s (as
opposed to Charter's 3mb... well, OK, charter JUST NOW upped to 4mb)
for the same price (or less) than I'm paying charter.
What outfit is that so I can check their website out and see where
else they're going ?
It's TDS.
www.TdsTelecom.com
They haven't rolled the fiber in my neighborhood yet. If anyone else
gets this service, let us know:
1. Does it live up to the download speed claims of 15mb/s?
|
Not here yet. Looks like a DSL and Satellite setup. Couldn't find any
reference to fiber on their site.
From their FAQ:
What Speed Packages are available with TDS Wireless?
TDS currently provides Wireless to both residential and business customers
in 1 and 2 year contracts ranging from 384k to 4MB.
For Pricing and Package information, Please contact our Sales Department at
1-877-METROCOM or 1-877-638-7626. You can also get more information at
www.tdsmetro.net
4MB would normally be 4 MegaBytes, but I doubt that was their intent.
I assume they meant 4 Mb - 4 Megabits. Let us know if you can find any
reference to fiber for these guys.
They show a 3 Mb service for $20/mo for 6 mo. Looks like it goes to $50
after the trial period.
| Quote: | 2. Does it live up to the upload speed claims of 2mb/s?
3. Do they do the unethical browser hijacking too??
4. Reliability?
5. Hardware -- What do you get? Do you have to pay monthly for the
HW? How much?
6. Do you use any VOIP phone service (like Lingo.com or Vonage.com)?
Does it work?
7. Did you get the TV combo? Is the video quality any good? Are all
channels digital?
8. If you got the TV combo, what about hardware? What'd you get and
how much do you pay monthly for the hardware (not counting the service
price itself).
For the record, their phone service (which is VOIP, as I understand
it) is way more expensive than either Lingo.com or Vonage.com. I'll
be sticking with Lingo.com and ditch TDS's phone service.
If I'm the first one here to get this, I'll report back on all of
these. I just don't know when they'll be rolling out fiber in my
neighborhood. I'll be their first customer when they do (assuming no
one here has really bad stuff to report about them). |
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