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Black & White negative scanning

 
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tomm42
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:25 pm    Post subject: Black & White negative scanning Reply with quote
What is the best way to scan B&W negatives 16 bit b&w or 48 bit color.
I can talk myself into either one, so I just want to get other
opinions. I haven't liked the look of the color scans, so I have been
using b&w.

Thanks
Tom
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Rob
Guest
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: Black & White negative scanning Reply with quote
tomm42 wrote:

Quote:
What is the best way to scan B&W negatives 16 bit b&w or 48 bit color.
I can talk myself into either one, so I just want to get other
opinions. I haven't liked the look of the color scans, so I have been
using b&w.

Thanks
Tom



Scan in colour then you can use all the functions in the edit programs.
Desaturate or what ever method to bring it back to B&W image.
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Steven Woody
Guest
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Black & White negative scanning Reply with quote
On 4月21日, 上午7时31分, Rob <m...@mine.com> wrote:
Quote:
tomm42 wrote:
What is the best way to scan B&W negatives 16 bit b&w or 48 bit color.
I can talk myself into either one, so I just want to get other
opinions. I haven't liked the look of the color scans, so I have been
using b&w.

Thanks
Tom

Scan in colour then you can use all the functions in the edit programs.
Desaturate or what ever method to bring it back to B&W image.

what are functions one really need to used on a RGB b&w image except
channal-mixer ? does one need to color balance the RGB image before
convert it to b&w? thanks.
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Rob
Guest
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Black & White negative scanning Reply with quote
Steven Woody wrote:

Quote:
On 4月21日, 上午7时31分, Rob <m...@mine.com> wrote:

tomm42 wrote:

What is the best way to scan B&W negatives 16 bit b&w or 48 bit color.
I can talk myself into either one, so I just want to get other
opinions. I haven't liked the look of the color scans, so I have been
using b&w.

Thanks
Tom

Scan in colour then you can use all the functions in the edit programs.
Desaturate or what ever method to bring it back to B&W image.


what are functions one really need to used on a RGB b&w image except
channal-mixer ? does one need to color balance the RGB image before
convert it to b&w? thanks.


There are a few methods to make B&W images each has advantages. Each
colour can be adjusted for instance.

This will fill you in more.

http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phscs2it_bwconv.pdf

http://www.eyesondesign.net/pshop/bw/converting_to_bw.htm
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Roger S.
Guest
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Black & White negative scanning Reply with quote
Quote:
what are functions one really need to used on a RGB b&w image except
channal-mixer ? does one need to color balance the RGB image before
convert it to b&w? thanks.

You generally want to get the overall image brightness and contrast
right before conversion or you'll be using the converter to correct
for brightness and might end up leaning on one channel's information
too much.
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Barry Watzman
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: Black & White negative scanning Reply with quote
What am I missing here? The title of the thread is "Black & White
negative scanning". I presume that means that the negative itself is
already B&W, not that we are trying to get a B&W image of a color
negative. If my assumption is correct, why would you possibly want to
scan in any form of color? I do such scanning in 8-bit (256 level)
Grayscale.


Roger S. wrote:
Quote:
what are functions one really need to used on a RGB b&w image except
channal-mixer ? does one need to color balance the RGB image before
convert it to b&w? thanks.

You generally want to get the overall image brightness and contrast
right before conversion or you'll be using the converter to correct
for brightness and might end up leaning on one channel's information
too much.
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Rob
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Black & White negative scanning Reply with quote
Barry Watzman wrote:

Quote:
What am I missing here? The title of the thread is "Black & White
negative scanning". I presume that means that the negative itself is
already B&W, not that we are trying to get a B&W image of a color
negative. If my assumption is correct, why would you possibly want to
scan in any form of color? I do such scanning in 8-bit (256 level)
Grayscale.



larger range and hence you can enhance the image more. Scanning
degregates the image anyway.




Quote:
Roger S. wrote:

what are functions one really need to used on a RGB b&w image except
channal-mixer ? does one need to color balance the RGB image before
convert it to b&w? thanks.


You generally want to get the overall image brightness and contrast
right before conversion or you'll be using the converter to correct
for brightness and might end up leaning on one channel's information
too much.
Back to top
Steven Woody
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Black & White negative scanning Reply with quote
On Apr 23, 12:27 pm, Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
Quote:
What am I missing here? The title of the thread is "Black & White
negative scanning". I presume that means that the negative itself is
already B&W, not that we are trying to get a B&W image of a color
negative. If my assumption is correct, why would you possibly want to
scan in any form of color? I do such scanning in 8-bit (256 level)
Grayscale.

Roger S. wrote:
what are functions one really need to used on a RGB b&w image except
channal-mixer ? does one need to color balance the RGB image before
convert it to b&w? thanks.

You generally want to get the overall image brightness and contrast
right before conversion or you'll be using the converter to correct
for brightness and might end up leaning on one channel's information
too much.


but that's about converting to b&w from color images. for b&w
negative, i don't understand why bother scanning in r/g/b then color
mix it. i think, there must be more or less 'color' cast on the r/g/b
image scaned in, so when done, i don't know if i should 'color'
correct before do a channel mix of 80% green + 20% red. and, i dount
a channel mix will yield any good comparing to scan in dirrectly in
b&w, scanner might already do a channel mix for you. any opinion?
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Barry Watzman
Guest
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:07 am    Post subject: Re: Black & White negative scanning Reply with quote
I can understand scanning in 16-bit monochrome instead of 8-bit
monochrome, but I still don't understand scanning a B&W negative in
color. In fact, I think that doing so would add color tints where they
are not wanted. Not to mention making the file size about 3x larger.


Rob wrote:
Quote:
Barry Watzman wrote:

What am I missing here? The title of the thread is "Black & White
negative scanning". I presume that means that the negative itself is
already B&W, not that we are trying to get a B&W image of a color
negative. If my assumption is correct, why would you possibly want to
scan in any form of color? I do such scanning in 8-bit (256 level)
Grayscale.



larger range and hence you can enhance the image more. Scanning
degregates the image anyway.




Roger S. wrote:

what are functions one really need to used on a RGB b&w image except
channal-mixer ? does one need to color balance the RGB image before
convert it to b&w? thanks.


You generally want to get the overall image brightness and contrast
right before conversion or you'll be using the converter to correct
for brightness and might end up leaning on one channel's information
too much.
Back to top
tomm42
Guest
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Black & White negative scanning Reply with quote
On Apr 20, 8:25 am, tomm42 <tmon...@wildblue.net> wrote:
Quote:
What is the best way to scan B&W negatives 16 bit b&w or 48 bit color.
I can talk myself into either one, so I just want to get other
opinions. I haven't liked the look of the color scans, so I have been
using b&w.

Thanks
Tom

Ran a test, the settings were.
B&W film scanned in 16bit greyscale
B&W film scanned in 48bit color
Color film scanned in 48bit color
6x7 TMax 400 neg, scanned at 2400 ppi. all were down sized to 12x16
and printed on my Canon iPF5000.
Not a heck of a lot of difference in the prints, POSSIBLY a slight bit
more dynamic range in the color scans but not obvious. I'm going to
try another neg and see if that produce any definative results.
I have resisted taking 1 color channel and printing that, because it
is the equivalent of using a filter, and I want the images unfiltered,
as I shot them (a couple may have had a 25red when shot), old negs so
I don't remember every detail.

Tom
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Mendel Leisk
Guest
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Black & White negative scanning Reply with quote
On Apr 23, 3:25 pm, Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
Quote:
I can understand scanning in 16-bit monochrome instead of 8-bit
monochrome, but I still don't understand scanning a B&W negative in
color. In fact, I think that doing so would add color tints where they
are not wanted. Not to mention making the file size about 3x larger.



Rob wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:

What am I missing here? The title of the thread is "Black & White
negative scanning". I presume that means that the negative itself is
already B&W, not that we are trying to get a B&W image of a color
negative. If my assumption is correct, why would you possibly want to
scan in any form of color? I do such scanning in 8-bit (256 level)
Grayscale.

larger range and hence you can enhance the image more. Scanning
degregates the image anyway.

Roger S. wrote:

what are functions one really need to used on a RGB b&w image except
channal-mixer ? does one need to color balance the RGB image before
convert it to b&w? thanks.

You generally want to get the overall image brightness and contrast
right before conversion or you'll be using the converter to correct
for brightness and might end up leaning on one channel's information
too much.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I settled on Vuescan for scanning my Tri-X, outputting Vuescan's "Raw
File": gamma 1.0, 16 bit with red, green and blue channels.
Essentially: all the information that the scanner received. I followed
up processing this file to 8 bit greyscale via Vuescan's scan-from-
disk function.
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