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John Lewis
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 Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:16 am Post subject: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues....... ? |
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Here is Creative's most recent comments with regard to the
crackling/popping on X-Fi boards:-
------------------------------------------
" Further to the reported cases of crackling issues reported by owners
of Sound Blaster X-Fi cards, we have extensively tested both Creative
and non-Creative audio cards on motherboards where the issues were
reported in an effort to isolate the root cause.
The findings indicate that circumstances causing these audio glitches
only arise on Nvidias nForce 4 range of motherboards, with the
exception of the newest n590 board which does not exhibit this issue.
The Sound Blaster X-Fi card was designed to meet PCI bus standards and
tolerances and this is the only range of motherboards that operate in
this manner.
A full technical description is detailed below, but in brief, the PCI
bus data requests are not being serviced leading to "gaps" in the
audio, resulting in sudden dropouts to no audio and back again which
gives rise to what is perceived as crackling.
We appreciate the time taken by several of our forum members in
assisting us isolate the root causes to date and appreciate the
frustration expressed by several posters, but would like to assure you
that we have been following the issue closely in an effort to seek
resolution from the early stages. As we have identified the resolution
of this issue to be beyond our control, we would advise customers
experiencing this issue to escalate their concerns to Nvidia in an
effort to seek a possible solution.
TECHNICAL DETAILS
We have observed through direct observation of the PCI bus on the
nVidia nForce 4 motherboards that when the crackle symptoms are
occuring, the Soundblaster X-Fi card PCI bus master memory requests
for audio data are being held off (not serviced) for very long
intervals.
We have observed peak holdoffs of up to 2 milliseconds in some cases.
This is unusual chipset behavior that is beyond the ability of a
hardware audio accelerator to compensate for in its internal
buffering. The SoundBlaster X-Fi tolerance for these PCI holdoffs is
approximately 120 microseconds peak holdoff, with a 1 microsecond
average holdoff.
These design tolerances are based on observation of real PCI bus
behavior on leading motherboards over a period of many motherboard
hardware generations.
The nForce 4 motherboard is the first motherboard on which these
extremely long PCI service holdoffs have been observed by Creative,
where another PCI device in the system was not causing the holdoff. "
----------------------------------------
Er, then why do the Audigy series all seem to work perfectly with
nForce4 motherboards ??? Also <some> X-Fi owners report no problems
with nForce4 systems.
Is the claimed 2mS peak holdoff (if actually true) within the PCI2.x
Specification LIMIT? ( Note that Creative's above blurb skirts around
actually quantifying the actual PCI Spec limit !!). I do not have
the PCI spec to hand, but I am sure there are some experts reading
this posting.
Seems like a case of insufficient on-board buffering in the base X-Fi
design. Can you spell (yet another) "CREATIVE DESIGN ***-UP" ??
And of course, it also means that Creative failed to properly
beta-test the X-Fi on (the many) nForce4 systems and raise the subject
with nVidia ( or re-design the X-Fi ) before initially shipping
it....... And to think that Creative also have the nerve to charge
another $100 for 64Meg of RAM !!
Looks as if Creative still have their monopoly on PC audio add-ons, so
I'll wait for X-Fi Mark II (on PCI-e X1/X4 of course) PLUS favorable
USER-reviews... fortunately I canceled an order for X-Fi just in time
a few months ago. Meanwhile my trusty Audigy 2 serves me quite well.
(Took quite a while for Creative to finally straighten out the Audigy
series too.)
John Lewis |
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DRS
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:46 am Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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"John Lewis" <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:44e230f9.16656973@news.verizon.net
| Quote: | Here is Creative's most recent comments with regard to the
crackling/popping on X-Fi boards:-
------------------------------------------
" Further to the reported cases of crackling issues reported by owners
of Sound Blaster X-Fi cards, we have extensively tested both Creative
and non-Creative audio cards on motherboards where the issues were
reported in an effort to isolate the root cause.
The findings indicate that circumstances causing these audio glitches
only arise on Nvidias nForce 4 range of motherboards, with the
exception of the newest n590 board which does not exhibit this issue.
|
[...]
| Quote: | Er, then why do the Audigy series all seem to work perfectly with
nForce4 motherboards ???
|
You should read more in the Creative forums. Some Audigy owners have
complained of similar problems.
| Quote: | Also <some> X-Fi owners report no problems
with nForce4 systems.
|
The two factors which seem to exacerbate the problem on nForce4 motherboards
are SLI and RAID. Since I use neither on my A8N-SLI Premium I have had no
problems with my X-Fi Platinum.
Furthermore, some complaints amount to nothing more than user abuse. Some
of those idiots have their volumes maxed out everywhere and are blaming
Creative for the subsequent clipping.
[...]
| Quote: | Seems like a case of insufficient on-board buffering in the base X-Fi
design. Can you spell (yet another) "CREATIVE DESIGN ***-UP" ??
|
2MB on the Extreme Music and Platinum, 4MB on the Fatality and Elite Pro.
Just how much do you think there should be?
| Quote: | And of course, it also means that Creative failed to properly
beta-test the X-Fi on (the many) nForce4 systems and raise the subject
with nVidia ( or re-design the X-Fi ) before initially shipping
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That's true. |
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slash
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:28 am Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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It's not just Nforce m8 i had major probs with VIA as well. Easy solution is
DONT BUY CREATIVE.
"DRS" <drs@removethis.ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:44e25cc4$0$32756$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
| Quote: | "John Lewis" <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:44e230f9.16656973@news.verizon.net
Here is Creative's most recent comments with regard to the
crackling/popping on X-Fi boards:-
------------------------------------------
" Further to the reported cases of crackling issues reported by owners
of Sound Blaster X-Fi cards, we have extensively tested both Creative
and non-Creative audio cards on motherboards where the issues were
reported in an effort to isolate the root cause.
The findings indicate that circumstances causing these audio glitches
only arise on Nvidias nForce 4 range of motherboards, with the
exception of the newest n590 board which does not exhibit this issue.
[...]
Er, then why do the Audigy series all seem to work perfectly with
nForce4 motherboards ???
You should read more in the Creative forums. Some Audigy owners have
complained of similar problems.
Also <some> X-Fi owners report no problems
with nForce4 systems.
The two factors which seem to exacerbate the problem on nForce4
motherboards are SLI and RAID. Since I use neither on my A8N-SLI Premium
I have had no problems with my X-Fi Platinum.
Furthermore, some complaints amount to nothing more than user abuse. Some
of those idiots have their volumes maxed out everywhere and are blaming
Creative for the subsequent clipping.
[...]
Seems like a case of insufficient on-board buffering in the base X-Fi
design. Can you spell (yet another) "CREATIVE DESIGN ***-UP" ??
2MB on the Extreme Music and Platinum, 4MB on the Fatality and Elite Pro.
Just how much do you think there should be?
And of course, it also means that Creative failed to properly
beta-test the X-Fi on (the many) nForce4 systems and raise the subject
with nVidia ( or re-design the X-Fi ) before initially shipping
That's true.
|
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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John Lewis wrote:
| Quote: | Looks as if Creative still have their monopoly on PC audio add-ons, so
I'll wait for X-Fi Mark II (on PCI-e X1/X4 of course) PLUS favorable
USER-reviews... fortunately I canceled an order for X-Fi just in time
a few months ago. Meanwhile my trusty Audigy 2 serves me quite well.
|
That'll really show Creative your dissatisfaction over its habitual
intolerance for latencies and monopolizing of the PCI bus in order for
its poorly designed products to work...throw your money at Creative's
next hugely overpriced offering.
Hmm, and I wonder why Creative's defiant monopoly has been so enduring?
lol!
Regards,
Tim |
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DRS
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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"slash" <slash@home.com> wrote in message
news:p_MEg.2479$HO5.1031@newsfe6-win.ntli.net
| Quote: | It's not just Nforce m8 i had major probs with VIA as well. Easy
solution is DONT BUY CREATIVE.
|
Such hysteria. This is just another 1% problem, only the sheer size of
Creative's market makes it look worse than it really is. |
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DRS
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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"John Lewis" <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:44e41af9.50824019@news.verizon.net
| Quote: | On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:05:59 +1000, "DRS" <drs@removethis.ihug.com.au
wrote:
"slash" <slash@home.com> wrote in message
news:p_MEg.2479$HO5.1031@newsfe6-win.ntli.net
It's not just Nforce m8 i had major probs with VIA as well. Easy
solution is DONT BUY CREATIVE.
Such hysteria. This is just another 1% problem, only the sheer size
of Creative's market makes it look worse than it really is.
I'd be hysterical too, if I had invested up to $300 in a POS with
crackles and pops while the on-board sound has none of these
undesirable attributes.
|
It's still a 1% problem. It's only Creative's market dominance that makes
it look worse than it really is, just like Apple's iPod problems. |
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Schrodinger
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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<snip>
| Quote: | Er, then why do the Audigy series all seem to work perfectly with
nForce4 motherboards ??? Also <some> X-Fi owners report no problems
with nForce4 systems.
|
My audigy (had it for years) has crackled and popped on and off since first
getting it. Doesn't often happen in games, but other strange audio stuff
does happen occasionally.
It always goes away if I disable the audigy and use on board sound.
| Quote: | Is the claimed 2mS peak holdoff (if actually true) within the PCI2.x
Specification LIMIT? ( Note that Creative's above blurb skirts around
actually quantifying the actual PCI Spec limit !!). I do not have
the PCI spec to hand, but I am sure there are some experts reading
this posting.
Seems like a case of insufficient on-board buffering in the base X-Fi
design. Can you spell (yet another) "CREATIVE DESIGN ***-UP" ??
And of course, it also means that Creative failed to properly
beta-test the X-Fi on (the many) nForce4 systems and raise the subject
with nVidia ( or re-design the X-Fi ) before initially shipping
it....... And to think that Creative also have the nerve to charge
another $100 for 64Meg of RAM !!
Looks as if Creative still have their monopoly on PC audio add-ons, so
I'll wait for X-Fi Mark II (on PCI-e X1/X4 of course) PLUS favorable
USER-reviews... fortunately I canceled an order for X-Fi just in time
a few months ago. Meanwhile my trusty Audigy 2 serves me quite well.
(Took quite a while for Creative to finally straighten out the Audigy
series too.)
John Lewis |
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Rob
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:33:40 GMT, john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis)
wrote:
| Quote: |
I'd be hysterical too, if I had invested up to $300 in a POS with
crackles and pops while the on-board sound has none of these
undesirable attributes.
|
I'd be hysterical if I'd invested that much in a sound card full stop.
I've never understood how people get hoodwinked into paying so much
money for something like a sound card.
What is the motivation to buy an XF-i to replace my Audigy 2? What
would I gain from it (apart from a hole in my wallet)?
--
Rob |
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John Lewis
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:05:59 +1000, "DRS" <drs@removethis.ihug.com.au>
wrote:
| Quote: | "slash" <slash@home.com> wrote in message
news:p_MEg.2479$HO5.1031@newsfe6-win.ntli.net
It's not just Nforce m8 i had major probs with VIA as well. Easy
solution is DONT BUY CREATIVE.
Such hysteria. This is just another 1% problem, only the sheer size of
Creative's market makes it look worse than it really is.
|
I'd be hysterical too, if I had invested up to $300 in a POS with
crackles and pops while the on-board sound has none of these
undesirable attributes.
John Lewis |
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| Back to top |
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Brendan
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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DRS wrote:
| Quote: | "John Lewis" <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:44e41af9.50824019@news.verizon.net
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:05:59 +1000, "DRS" <drs@removethis.ihug.com.au
wrote:
"slash" <slash@home.com> wrote in message
news:p_MEg.2479$HO5.1031@newsfe6-win.ntli.net
It's not just Nforce m8 i had major probs with VIA as well. Easy
solution is DONT BUY CREATIVE.
Such hysteria. This is just another 1% problem, only the sheer size
of Creative's market makes it look worse than it really is.
I'd be hysterical too, if I had invested up to $300 in a POS with
crackles and pops while the on-board sound has none of these
undesirable attributes.
It's still a 1% problem. It's only Creative's market dominance that makes
it look worse than it really is, just like Apple's iPod problems.
|
It sure sucks if you're included in that 1% though. |
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DRS
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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"Brendan" <1@1.com> wrote in message
news:ec1of6$s46$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net
[...]
| Quote: | It's still a 1% problem. It's only Creative's market dominance that
makes it look worse than it really is, just like Apple's iPod
problems.
It sure sucks if you're included in that 1% though.
|
Sure. |
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GlassVial
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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I gave up on/boycotted Creative a long time ago, once I learned what
assholes they have working for them in their tech support/customer
service. I also don't recommend their prodcuts to any of my
customers, and I will not support those that do. If we all quit
buying their junk, maybe they'll wake the *** up and realize they
can't just keep pushing *** on us.
-GV |
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Walter Mitty
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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GlassVial <glassvial@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> writes:
| Quote: | I gave up on/boycotted Creative a long time ago, once I learned what
assholes they have working for them in their tech support/customer
service. I also don't recommend their prodcuts to any of my
customers, and I will not support those that do. If we all quit
buying their junk, maybe they'll wake the *** up and realize they
can't just keep pushing *** on us.
|
What ***? I've used creative cards for years with hardly an issue. |
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pigdos
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:57 am Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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Nice idea, in theory. Too bad Craptive Labs owns the soundcard market.
They're basically the MS of soundcards. They annihilated their competition
by every dirty trick in the book.
--
Doug
"GlassVial" <glassvial@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nu59e2p9860v4ha884aq8p8jr9djspjutr@4ax.com...
| Quote: | I gave up on/boycotted Creative a long time ago, once I learned what
assholes they have working for them in their tech support/customer
service. I also don't recommend their prodcuts to any of my
customers, and I will not support those that do. If we all quit
buying their junk, maybe they'll wake the *** up and realize they
can't just keep pushing *** on us.
-GV
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EDM
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: Re: More BS from Creative on the continuing X-Fi issues..... |
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"pigdos" <NA@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:VS3Fg.353$yO7.213@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: | Nice idea, in theory. Too bad Craptive Labs owns the soundcard market.
They're basically the MS of soundcards. They annihilated their competition
by every dirty trick in the book.
|
Not quite. I just switched from Creative to an Auzentech
X-Mystique. WHAT a difference. The card cost half as
much, the drivers are no-nonsense and rock solid, no more
static/stuttering/etc/etc/etc problems, and it upconverts all
audio to digital optical out. I went from spaghetti to having
a single wire to my 7.1 receiver.
| Quote: | "GlassVial" <glassvial@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nu59e2p9860v4ha884aq8p8jr9djspjutr@4ax.com...
I gave up on/boycotted Creative a long time ago, once I learned what
assholes they have working for them in their tech support/customer
service. I also don't recommend their prodcuts to any of my
customers, and I will not support those that do. If we all quit
buying their junk, maybe they'll wake the *** up and realize they
can't just keep pushing *** on us.
-GV
|
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Fix your Windows Problems - FAST.
FREE Safe Scan Registry Check. Locate & Fix Errors in Minutes!
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