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WaterWatcher
Guest
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 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:32 am Post subject: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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Hi all. The local Fry's has this motherboard and a bare Athlon 64 3500+ for
$199. Seems like a good deal, but after some research I see that the AGP-e
slot is only good for certain video cards. I have an MSI 6600GT AGP card
that is not on the supported list. I suppose it would be folly to try it,
but has anyone else tried this mobo with an unsupported video card, and if
so, what were the results?
Thanks,
Ray |
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tcsenter
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:31 am Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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The "AGP Express" slot on this model is actually an AGP connector
attached to the PCI bus, so the performance is limited to exactly what
a PCI graphics card would yield. ECS doesn't do a good enough job of
disclosing this. |
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Swingman
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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"tcsenter" <tcsenter@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137112941.450099.167760@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | The "AGP Express" slot on this model is actually an AGP connector
attached to the PCI bus, so the performance is limited to exactly what
a PCI graphics card would yield. ECS doesn't do a good enough job of
disclosing this.
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Can you post a link to some additional documentation/explanation of this? |
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tcsenter
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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| Quote: | Can you post a link to some additional documentation/explanation of this?
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Sure, here you go. VIA's product page for K8T890 Northbridge:
http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/k8-series/k8t890/
Notice there is no AGP bus supported on K8T890. Thus the only way to
get AGP on this board is either to use an AGP to PCIe bridge logic
(which the board does not have), or to custom wire an AGP connector to
the PCI Bus. AGP is heavily derived from 32-bit parallel PCI Bus
architecture and can be operated in PCI mode (but you lose all the AGP
performance features).
The same AGP Express design is also used on ECS boards based on Intel
915. A discussion of this design can be found at:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=2074
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=883&page=2
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=0&id=1406&pg=2
VIA has the PT880 Pro and PT880 Ultra for Intel processors, both of
which support true AGP and PCIe graphics bus, but nothing for AMD64.
The only AMD64 chipset with support for true AGP and PCIe graphics is
ULi (ALi) M1695 NB + M1567 SB (e.g. Asrock 939Dual-SATA2).
Regards, |
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Swingman
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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"tcsenter" <tcsenter@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137882015.416282.261420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Can you post a link to some additional documentation/explanation of
this?
Sure, here you go. VIA's product page for K8T890 Northbridge:
http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/k8-series/k8t890/
Notice there is no AGP bus supported on K8T890. Thus the only way to
get AGP on this board is either to use an AGP to PCIe bridge logic
(which the board does not have), or to custom wire an AGP connector to
the PCI Bus. AGP is heavily derived from 32-bit parallel PCI Bus
architecture and can be operated in PCI mode (but you lose all the AGP
performance features).
The same AGP Express design is also used on ECS boards based on Intel
915. A discussion of this design can be found at:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=2074
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=883&page=2
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=0&id=1406&pg=2
VIA has the PT880 Pro and PT880 Ultra for Intel processors, both of
which support true AGP and PCIe graphics bus, but nothing for AMD64.
The only AMD64 chipset with support for true AGP and PCIe graphics is
ULi (ALi) M1695 NB + M1567 SB (e.g. Asrock 939Dual-SATA2).
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Thanks for the details. I was considering the ECS board and would have been
pretty ticked if I hadn't understood this AGP issue beforehand. |
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tcsenter
Guest
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ruggerwubbs
Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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Pretty sure using an incompatible graphics card will just keep the board from booting. I don't think you'll actually damage anything. (I hope!) lol.
I think this is the problem I'm having right now. I tried to throw an ati 9600xt 256 card in the agp express slot, and though the power comes on (all the case fans, optical drive, lights etc), the machine doesn't post to bios. I've swapped out the ram, and tried the graphics card itself in another normal agp machine, and all is well. It's a brand new processor and motherboard so...
seems very likely the graphics card is the culprit. I'm gonna pick up a pci express card on my way home from class today. hopefully that'll fix the problem. (Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please.....)  |
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tcsenter
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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| Quote: | I think this is the problem I'm having right now. I tried to throw an
ati 9600xt 256 card in the agp express slot, and though the power
comes on (all the case fans, optical drive, lights etc), the machine
doesn't post to bios.
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Due to the AGP Express slot design, this board can only support older
AGP cards compatible with 3.3V. Radeon 9600 is 1.5V and cannot work,
but older GPUs such as Radeon 9500 will work because it is compatible
with 3.3V. This is another limitation ECS does not make clear in its
product information.
Notice in the AGP Express Support Chart it is mostly older GPUs:
http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Support/k8t890-a.aspx?MenuID=95&LanID=9 |
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Slim
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:36:00 GMT, no@spam.invalid (ruggerwubbs) wrote:
| Quote: | Pretty sure using an incompatible graphics card will just keep the
board from booting. I don't think you'll actually damage anything.
(I hope!) lol.
I think this is the problem I'm having right now. I tried to throw an
ati 9600xt 256 card in the agp express slot, and though the power
comes on (all the case fans, optical drive, lights etc), the machine
doesn't post to bios. I've swapped out the ram, and tried the
graphics card itself in another normal agp machine, and all is well.
It's a brand new processor and motherboard so...
seems very likely the graphics card is the culprit. I'm gonna pick up
a pci express card on my way home from class today. hopefully that'll
fix the problem. (Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please.....)
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Or if you want to use your AGP card, then buy as ASROCK
939Dual
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/09/16/asrock_939dual/index.html |
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JimL
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:46:18 GMT, Slim <ric.duncan@verizon.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:36:00 GMT, no@spam.invalid (ruggerwubbs) wrote:
Pretty sure using an incompatible graphics card will just keep the
board from booting. I don't think you'll actually damage anything.
(I hope!) lol.
I think this is the problem I'm having right now. I tried to throw an
ati 9600xt 256 card in the agp express slot, and though the power
comes on (all the case fans, optical drive, lights etc), the machine
doesn't post to bios. I've swapped out the ram, and tried the
graphics card itself in another normal agp machine, and all is well.
It's a brand new processor and motherboard so...
seems very likely the graphics card is the culprit. I'm gonna pick up
a pci express card on my way home from class today. hopefully that'll
fix the problem. (Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please.....)
:retard:
Or if you want to use your AGP card, then buy as ASROCK
939Dual
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/09/16/asrock_939dual/index.html
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That article show you take a significant performance hit, although
the price is somewhat lower. |
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tcsenter
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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| Quote: | That article show you take a significant performance hit,
although the price is somewhat lower
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'Significant' performance hit? 'Somewhat' cheaper? Only one benchmark
exceeded 5% difference between a mainstream/value segment board and a
top-end enthusiast board costing at least 2.5 times more; 8.6%
difference in Far Cry. Every other benchmark was within 3% (usually
less), widely considered insignificant (imperceptible).
Besides, that was a PCI-E test, not AGP. Here's a test of both AGP and
PCI-E (also showing the Asrock is a competent overclocker):
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2524 |
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Slim
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:35 am Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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On 21 Mar 2006 11:19:38 -0800, "tcsenter" <tcsenter@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | That article show you take a significant performance hit,
although the price is somewhat lower
'Significant' performance hit? 'Somewhat' cheaper? Only one benchmark
exceeded 5% difference between a mainstream/value segment board and a
top-end enthusiast board costing at least 2.5 times more; 8.6%
difference in Far Cry. Every other benchmark was within 3% (usually
less), widely considered insignificant (imperceptible).
Besides, that was a PCI-E test, not AGP. Here's a test of both AGP and
PCI-E (also showing the Asrock is a competent overclocker):
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2524
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Thank you....my whole point was that the K8T890-A has compatibility
problems with many AGP cards and doesn't do full AGP speed.
The ASROCK is really the only choice if you want to continue
using your AGP, particularly if you have a high end card like a
Geforce 6800 AGP. |
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JimL
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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On 21 Mar 2006 11:19:38 -0800, "tcsenter" <tcsenter@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | That article show you take a significant performance hit,
although the price is somewhat lower
'Significant' performance hit? 'Somewhat' cheaper? Only one benchmark
exceeded 5% difference between a mainstream/value segment board and a
top-end enthusiast board costing at least 2.5 times more; 8.6%
difference in Far Cry. Every other benchmark was within 3% (usually
less), widely considered insignificant (imperceptible).
Besides, that was a PCI-E test, not AGP. Here's a test of both AGP and
PCI-E (also showing the Asrock is a competent overclocker):
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2524
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Hey.
How about this Asrock board?
939SLI32-ESATA2 |
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tcsenter
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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| Quote: | How about this Asrock board? 939SLI32-ESATA2
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How about it? Looks like another outstanding value solution from
Asrock.
I wonder how long before NVIDIA pulls these seriously competitive ULI
(ALI) chips or jacks the price up? |
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twright
Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: ECS K8T890-A and AGP video |
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Arrgh! I found this post right after I purchased the ECS online.
The ECS site gives an impression that it is backward compatible with (all)AGP cards until I downloaded the manual, and sure 'nuff, the card I want to use in it isn't listed. I want to upgrade my wife's computer with one of my old Athlon 64 chips - she has an AGP nVidia 6800GT. I suspect this card would not have worked at all on this board. But I also wanted a value board that will be able to support my PCIe 7900GT whenever I get a chance to upgrade and give her a handmedown.
It may have been too late to cancel, but I'll just refuse delivery if it actually ships.
I went with the recommendation above and purchased the ASRock mboard instead from Newegg. Will give an update once I receive it.
Thanks for the post!
Tom |
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